SGOTM8 - klarius

I was out for the weekend and I'm travelling untill wednesday, so I can't contribute much to the discussion. But so far everything seem to go well.
Justt to let you know.

Ronald
 
Isn't there some way to figure out what the AI will research next, outlined in one of the strategy articles? I reckon Greece might go for Writing, so perhaps it would be a good idea to research something else (?).
As to the barbs from the mountain, they shouldn't worry you too much. The Chinese guy will probably head further south and engage the barbs for you.
 
There is somewhere an article about the AI research likelihood. But there's always a random factor involved. Writing is a pretty likely research for the AI, but there are also other possibilities. Because writing is so important, one should self-research it. Even if the AI gets writing first, one may not be able to buy it, unless one has substantial research in it.
 
2550 - Warrior W, luxury from 20 to 40%, because a citizen was changed from working lake to working irr. plains.

2510 - Worker A mines. Barbs stayed put. Warrior fortified. Citizen changed from forest to unroaded flood plain. Road will be finished next turn but I still can't decrease luxury. Scout N, SW. Unclear if there is a land bridge north. He will return there.

2470 - Settler finished. Luxury back to 20%. Barb went north. No! I hit space bar for the settler! Sorry people! Because of our lousy science I have decided to put our second town on Flood plains. Worker B NW. Scout S, W. Sees barb camp.

2430 - Settler NW, NW, N. Scout E, N. Worker B irrigates. Changed citizen from BG to lake. Warrior goes back to DC.

2390 - Scout NW, N. Landbridge, but it could be just a peninsula. Settled New York, building warrior. Another barb materializes in the camp. The Chinese warrior is likely to kill him so warrior stays in DC.

China knows Iron Working.

2350 - Warrior finished, fortifies. The new barb attacked the Chinese warrior and died. Mine finished, Worker A roads. DC works both BGs. Very nice settler factory. I think one barb is still loose. Scout NW, W. Peninsula continues.

2310 - Chinese warrior dies. Worker B roads. Scout north.

2270 - Scout N, sees mountain range. Worker A north. Luxury upped to 30%, science down to 50%. (We have only 2 gold.)

2230 - Barb approaches from the South. Obviously there is another camp in the fog. Scout NW. He meets a Chinese warrior coming back from the range. Worker A roads - we must not risk the barbs pillaging the southwestern BG, hence a road to help the warriors reach that tile. Worker B south to improve the only plains that are on a river.

2190 - Settler finished ready to go where Evil_Kanevil likes, although I suggest NE, NE, E to make use of the lake. I moved the scout W out of curiosity. Unfortunately, there is a barb approaching our SE BG. I suggest we sacrifize happiness yet again to move at least 1 warrior S or SE to intimidate this barb. If he steps onto the BG, our settler factory is disrupted. If he pillages it, we are set back many years.

Edit: I am so sure of this, that I moved out a warrior S and changed the luxury before saving. My guess is the barb will fortify or take cover in the forest, which would buy us some time.

Really sorry about the blunder with the space bar.

k2190bc.jpg


I have uploaded the save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/klarius_SG008_BC2190_01.SAV

Good luck. Careful with the gold - I might have brought us a bit too close to the flashing red figures with built-in sirens.
 
Well played Megalou, nevermind the damn spacebar.
I think after Writing we should go for Philosophy and skip the direct slingshot with Code of Laws first. The civs with alphabet have a head start on us.
As to the next city, I reckon we should press north and secure the dyes as soon as possible. I reckon there's no one to the south of us, we're near the south of the map, and we should secure as much territory to the north as we can before settling south.
 
Greece starts with Alphabet. We should simply note when they learn Writing and then decide. I am very reluctant to let go of the chance. There are several techs that the AI like to go after before Philosophy, like Horseback Riding, Mysticism, and above all Map Making. The trade value of another free tech is slim compared to Republic and if we fail we can still reach parity with Literature for example. I'm not saying you are wrong, though. Currency would be a decent free tech.
 
Looks good :goodjob: ,

small technical point, Megalou you played 9 turns, as I wrote before no big deal, but the goal is to be at the 10 turn breakpoints as written by AlanH here :)

Roster:
klarius
Ciceronian
Megalou just played
Evil_Kanevil up
Ronald on deck
Northern Pike (currently unavailable)

Just to make sure that everybody understands how our 4-turn settler factory works (you sure all know, just to be on the safe side ;) ):

First turn at size 5 working 2 mined BGs, irrigated lamb and two irrigated floodplains that's +5 food, 6 shields.

Second turn same tiles, will grow to size 6. A forest will be auto selected so we get 8 shields, total 14.

Third turn micromanage from forest to irrigated plains gives +5 food, 7 shields, total 21. Adjustment of lux slider is probably necessary to keep the city from rioting.

Fourth turn, simple method, keep MM the same, growth will again pick a forest, settler will complete. Because we are at size 7 for a split second, we will even gain 10 sh (2 from city center). So the more sophisticated method is to do another MM from the irrigated plain to the lake, to get one more commerce. But if that's too much MM for you just do the simple method with MM only every second turn.

We want to build a settler every 4 turns for the next 40 turns or so, except when we are forced out of it by disease or barbs.

The next few settlers should form a belt around the capital to secure it against barbs. Securing a lux in the middle of jungle is only a secondary goal.

As soon as we can afford it, a warrior should clean the path in front of the settlers. We also need to explore some more, especially also in the sw (we still don't know where the land ends there).

I tried a little city planning (because the people do that all the time in SGs), but I'm not really good at that, so feel free to improve it :) :
 

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Lookin good there :)

I'm a bit tired, will go to bed soon so I won't play my turn until tomorrow...

I agree that the first city should be NE NE E, and if everything goes well I'll be sending the second settler north at the end of my turnset.

A small question.. what do you guys think we should build in our new cities? Granary anywhere, or just squeeze out as many workers and settlers as possible?

heh heh this will be fun... :cool:
 
Neat, klarius. Glad you liked my suggestion for New City 1. We could work the lake and sometimes the irrigated plains.

Edit: Hi Evil. No I don't think there should be any more granaries. There is not so much land to settle.
 
Nice work so far.

One comment about research: I would not give up the Republic slingshot at this moment. Finish writing and then see how far Greece is.

City placement looks fine for me. Anybody feels strongly about which order?

I am back tomorrow night and will be ready to play thursday evening.

Ronald
 
Evil_Kanevil said:
A small question.. what do you guys think we should build in our new cities? Granary anywhere, or just squeeze out as many workers and settlers as possible?
I suggest instant library for "New City 6" (if it materializes). If it can pop the hut via expanded borders before the end of the ancient age we may get Monarchy which would have a great trading value, then ideally trading it for Greece's free tech. Expansion would also allow it to work the oyster.
 
2190 BC: Settler NE NE E
Worker B builds road

2150: The barb moves into the forest S of our warrior.
Worker A irrigates.
Scout keeps moving westwards into the mountains
Thinking about attacking the barb.. we have 75% to win. I decide not to… should be able to get a better opportunity. My warrior fortifies instead
Boston is founded, and starts producing a warrior.

2110: Scout heads westwards, revealing that the peninsula ends, and that it contains nothing but mountains… Looks like the gems will probably be gotten through a colony.
Worker B finishes the road, and heads SE to help complete the irrigation.

2070: NY finishes warrior, and starts producing a worker.

I decide to try the advanced MM version for an extra gold, I’m feeling a bit skeptical and it takes me a while to understand why it should work… Not entirely convinced, I press the enter button and pray

China now knows mysticism.

Both workers go NW to irrigate that plain.

2030: Washington completes the settler :D I sent it to city spot 2 according to klarius’ planning.

Notice the borders of a new Chinese city SW of their capital.

I drop the lux slider a notch, increase the science to 70% and notice with pleasure that we’ll have a coin in our treasury next turn

Boston works the plain rather than the lake, because that extra commerce is corruption…

1990: Irrigation complete. Worker A goes NENE to work on the flood plain SE of New york. Worker B heads to the plain SE of Washington to irrigate and connect the road to that mined BG.

I’ll be damned.. Last turn writing was 5 turns away, now it’s just 1 turn. I’m not complaining… Anyway I lower the sci slider so that we’ll have 7 gold in the next turn. The financial crisis is over for now :)

1950: We learn writing. Turns out both Greece and china got it the turn before us :mad: … We Start researching CoL, which will take 23 turns, give or take…

1910: Boston finishes warrior, starts producing worker. The warrior heads SE along the mountain range to explore.

Philadelphia is founded, and they start building a worker right away.

Scout still on it’s way back to explore the east coast.

1870: Worker A start irrigating the flood plain. Worker B irrigates plain.

New York finishes a worker C which heads N to work the flood plain and to connect Philadelphia.

The settler heads S SE towards the city site. By doing that it uncovers a goody hut straight east of the planned city site. I think it’s best to pop it by expansion, so I send the exploring warrior to be ready and defend the city site if we’re unlucky.

1830: Worker C starts building road. Settler and warrior rendezvous at the planned city site.

Ready for Ronald to take the reins…
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/klarius_SG008_BC1830_01.SAV

PS. I didn't manage to paste a screenshot, so it would be neat if someone did that...
 
Looking nice! And what about that land strip to the SE!?

k1830bc.jpg
It looks promising for the slingshot. (k o w) I just played some failed sid starts and never once saw the AI go for Philosophy before Map Making. I think I saw Mysticism come first too. Well there' s no going back now anyway. Perhaps some restrictions in worker builds can be applied for a slightly higher science, and a chop timed for a one turn warrior somewhere.
 
Looks like we are under way :goodjob:
Ok, screenshot to come (just see Megalou was faster, but I add also an explanation):
klarius_sg8_4.jpg

I used the "upload file" link at the bottom of the posting page and this command in the post (without the blank in the first tag)
[img ]http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/klarius_sg8_4.jpg[/img]
If you want only one image to show up at the bottom of your post you can also use the "manage attachments" button below the post box to upload one image file (prefered .jpg).
You generate the .jpg by hitting the print screen button in game and then paste the image in a image processing program (MS paint is good enough). You should crop or shrink it somewhat so it doesn't break the forum layout completely, then save it as jpg.

To the game:
Well we have another 9-turn player ;) . Maybe I should mention how one counts to ten:
The first inherited turn doesn't count (or count it as 0). Your first turn is begins when you first hit enter. Then you play 10 turns, but stop before you would hit enter again.

Ronald could now play 11 or 12 turns or I (or Northern Pike if he should come in) could smooth it out. It's not that important, but at 1000BC turn 80 we will want a save to compare with the others.

A few points:
We are expansionist so we don't get barbs from GHs. But we don't want to pop a GH currently. Though the risk to get philosophy is not very big, because we have cheaper techs to learn, we would rather like to keep the chance for a more expensive tech later. So it's a question if we want to settle. Well Ronald can decide.

I would let Boston build military and get workers from the flood plain cities.

I still think we need to go as high research as possible, so I would take a loan when we run out of money. But I know not everybody likes this.
 
>> Well we have another 9-turn player

:blush: I'll make sure to research mathematics until my next game :p

>> We are expansionist so we don't get barbs from GHs.

Maybe we should move "new city 3" 1 step SW, and later build a fishing village right on top of the goody hut.

Oh.. once there is an irrigated FP for philadelphia to work, I think we should switch from the olives to that one, since one of the shields is waste, and that way the city would get a chance to grow and generate more commerce.
 
Evil_Kanevil said:
Maybe we should move "new city 3" 1 step SW, and later build a fishing village right on top of the goody hut.
That's a mountain under the GH. The only place we can build to use the fish later, is where the settler is currently. And because we probably have to research a lot in this game we shouldn't waste such tiles near our capital.
I would really like to keep the GH, but on the other side the settler has to walk three steps with barbs around (two steps would also be possible, but then our se really gets crowded).
As I said, Ronald will decide. It's anyway not possible to say what's better in the long run.
Maybe he will flip a coin :D .
 
@klarius: I take it "loan" means buying cash for gpt. The actual loan has never worked for me and I hope you don't have an illegal luck utility yourself. ;)

Good point about Boston. It's our only low food town so far. Eventually, the barbs must be crushed and 25 gold is a lot when we can hardly afford boots to our workers.
 
Megalou said:
@klarius: I take it "loan" means buying cash for gpt.
Sure, and I think China will give a better deal. When I last checked they would have given 17g for 1gpt which isn't bad for emperor.
Barbs could be a nice source of income, but we really need some attackers for that. The camp in the west could probably be taken out by settling No 6 (btw the numbers weren't meant to be real in sequence, currently we have to get cities built, wherever the barbs permit) in my plan. But for that the settler should have two warriors cover, which means we need more lux for some turns.

BTW, everybody, expect barb horses soon. We really need also units out to warn our workers and settlers in time. And we will probably not be able to avoid the barbs to pillage some of our cities. Just make sure that we will not lose our granary because of that.
 
I play tomorrow evening (thursday, I saw the server is already on tomorrow :) ) my 12 turns (so that we are in line with AlanH's saves planning)
About the settler I will decide after I had a closer look at the map. So far I only know the screenshots.
From a first look I rather settle right now. That will free the warrior to escort the next settler to new city6. Getting philosophy from this GH is I believe impossible and we will have republic, literature (the tech I would research after getting republic of future trades. Nevertheless I would have preferred building any other city earlier than this one.
I want to build New city 6 next: First to get rid of the barb camp, secondly to have one decent production city more.

Any strong objections?

Ronald
 
turn 0 (1830 BC): Preflight checking. Nothing changed.

inter turn: Barabarians send one more warrior towards us

turn 1 (1790 BC): found Atlanta, get map from GH :-(, see diamonds in the South :-), Change Boston from worker to warrior, increase happiness

inter turn: one more warrior shows up

turn 2 (1750 BC): move warrior W, MM New York, protect BG with warrior to preserve 4-turn factory

inter turn: Warrior wins against barbarian (3 HP)

turn 3 (1725 BC): Boston builds warrior, move him to Washinton, kill barbarian with warrior (-1 HP) escort new settler with 2 warriors to new city 6

inter turn: Barbarian kills 1 escort warrior, barabrian horseman! dies our warrior is promoted.

turn 4 (1700 BC): warrior kills red lined barbarian. Move settler and warrior to location NC6

inter turn: nothing

turn 5 (1675 BC): Found Chicago, move warriors back

inter turn: Barbarian died assaulting Atlanta

turn 6 (1650 BC): move warrior towards SE and see another barbarian coming, move other warrior N

inter turn: barbarian dies against warrior

turn 7 (1625 BC): move warrior SE, see mountain goats!, move settler in direction NC4, move warrior N to protect northern border

inter turn: nothing

turn 8 (1600 BC): move warrior SE, see barbarian horseman, move settler to position NC4, move warrior N, boston builds warrior, move it to Washington, reduce luxury

inter turn: China researched mathmatic

turn 9 (1575 BC): Found Seattle, move warrior N, see new barb camp N

inter turn: Greece established embassy in washington

turn 10 (1550 BC): Fortify warrior in the north next to barbarian camp, explore SE further, some MM

inter turn: Norther barbs sending horseman

turn 11 (1525 BC): warrior S to protect worker, settler towards NC7

inter turn: see another barb horseman SE

turn 12 (1500 BC): settler is NC7, warrior movements to protect SE and N

Some food for thoughts towards klarius:
CoL is currently at 2 turns. You can change Boston & Atlanta to one scientist each. This will give CoL the next turn. (I would do the change, but it is up to you.)
Boston is ready to build another warrior. If you want to change to something else, fine.
The Barracks in Atlanta, the temple in Chicago and the warrior in Seattle are just pre-builds. Do whatever you think is best (I would have chicago on a prebuild for library to get this nice GH, and keep Atlanta on a prebuild for library too to get the fish and also Seattle on a library prebuild too for the mountain goats, but you might need an extra warrior for the barb camp in the South)
The warrior in the north is fortified. There is a barb horseman NNW of him.

Have fun with the next turns.

Ronald

save at 1500 BC
 

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