SGOTM8 - Own

[ainwood]

I suggest that own simply posts the current save - if he's played half a turn, then the next person can play the rest of it. I think that's preferable than trying to recreate the same moves without a turnlog.

 

[Own]

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Own_SG008_AD0460_01.SAV

 

[Andronicus]

If no-one objects (and since there has been no offers from anyone else) I'll put together a spoiler post - may take a couple of days

 

[Abegweit]

@Andronicus

Consider this a "got it". I'll take a look at the save tonight and probably play tomorrow aft Eastern Time. Comments welcome between now and then.

 

[IstariAsuka]

If no-one objects (and since there has been no offers from anyone else) I'll put together a spoiler post - may take a couple of days

Sure, but if you could post it here first when you finish, so that we could add "insightful" comments about some of the poor decisions we made, that would be great.

 

[Andronicus]

Sure, but if you could post it here first when you finish, so that we could add "insightful" comments about some of the poor decisions we made, that would be great.

No problemo

 

[Abegweit]

Pre-flight check

Note to all:

Cities in the ICS region should be roughly size 6 and not growing. Pull workers and settlers off them from time to time at which point, they can grow back up to the right size. All excess growth is devoted to scientists. By micro-managing I got the science rate down to 60% from 90% while still maintaining 4 turns to gunpowder.

Cities in the core should be at size 12. Workers can be drawn off them as they are about to grow.

In view of this, I have changed several builds. In the ISC region, all infra builds are vetoed and changed to settlers, workers and trebs. Canton, which is on the Greek front and well into a duct, gets switched to a barracks for upgrading and recuperating. Cats are archers are sent there.

In the core we need harbours more than libraries. With the GA coming up, four-turn research will be a breeze. Flood plains are taken away from 08, which is already at size 12 and given to more deserving cities.

Our ISC build is much too loose (and I am at fault for this just as much as anyone else). When we move on the Greeks, we should consider moving cities in order to fit more in. For example, another city could be squeezed in at both Chengdu and Shanghai. As it is, one more city can be squeezed in with an AI move – settling on the wheat se of Dallas [shocked], so I do that.

470 Send some workers back to the core. Oakland founded on the wheat.
480 Several more citizens take up careers in science, reducing the tax rate to 50%
490 Cop’s and our Golden Age 
500 Gunpowder. We have salt. Tax rate back to 50%
510 Cancel alliance with Rome; set up straight lux + tech for GPT deal
[it] Caesar demands Gunpowder; we tell him to stuff it. Canton flips to Greeks. Grrr. Fortunately there was only one longbow there.
520 Declare war on Greeks.
530 Battle of Athens
4/4 longbow loses to 2/3 Hoplite without a hit
4/4 longbow kills 2/3 Hoplite
4/4 longbow kills 1/3 Hoplite
4/4 longbow kills 1/3 Hoplite and promotes
Athens is taken [3, 1]
Battle of Delphi
4/4 Horse retreats from 3/3 Hoplite
4/4 Horse attacks 2/3 Hoplite and dies
4/4 Horse kills 2/3 Hoplite and promotes
4/4 Longbow kills 4/4 archer
4/4 Longbow kills 1/3 Hoplite and we are out of power [5, 2]

540 Chemistry
1/4 Horse dies to 3/3 archer at Delphi. [5, 3]
550 Battle of Canton
5/5 horse kills 2/4 hoplite
4/4 horse kills 2/3 hoplite
5/5 Longbow kills 3/3 archer [8, 3]
Canton is recovered
3/4 Longbow kills 1/3 archer at Delphi [9, 3]
560 movement
570 kill 5 archers near Santa Fe [14, 3]

Post-flight: there are some troops south of Thermopylae. They are intended to build a town right there and move on the city next round. It should be possible to go back on the attack at Delphi turn. They were down to a 2/3 hoplite but I had no more troops

 

[Andronicus]

@ Abegweit -
Are Greeks still in wonder building mode?
If so then pressing on should be the way to go.
Any chance of a screenie?
IIRC Greeks are quite strong culturally so we will need to be careful of flips.

I should be able to play next turn in the next 24 hours.

Roster
Andronicus - up (unavail 24/9 - 2/10)
IstariAsuka - waiting (should be able to get it for the weekend )
Symphony D
Own (skipped last turn)
Abegweit - just put a nice dent in Greece

 

[Abegweit]

Are Greeks still in wonder building mode? If so then pressing on should be the way to go.

We have them on the run. We should be able to throw them off the continent, although I doubt it will happen during your turns. I played 11-12. It would be good if you played a couple of extra as well to get the years aligned properly.

I think there's only one hoplite at Delphi and I doubt that the Greek core is much better defended.

IIRC Greeks are quite strong culturally so we will need to be careful of flips.

Yeah. Raze and replace may be the way to go. I kept Athens because of the wonders but the other cities have little value. The ICS region needs to concentrate on settlers and workers. As I recall we have about three settlers left and I merged quite a few workers into cities in the core. We are short of both.

 

[Abegweit]

Edit: As you can see, the builds in the new cities are kinda random and need to be changed. In fact, the whole ICS region should be reviewed. I have most cities building trebs. Workers and settlers are a higher priority.

There is enough power here to take Greece out, especially when the reinforcements arrive from Delphi.

 

[Andronicus]

Got it
Played first few moves but its 1am Sat morning now - will post within 12 hours I hope
Suffice to say at 620AD we have taken Delphi, Sparta, Thermopylae and Knossos - about to attack Corinth.
We are 8 turns from IA from where we can smell those helis
We are easy tech leaders thanks to our remarkable science farm. I have a pre-build going for Newtons which will finish in 20-25 turns (shows 20 at present, but still in GA) Not sure if this worth it, although I suspect 4 turn research to get harder later in IA.

 

[Own]

Nice progress with Greece . Good thing I was skipped, I couldn't have done that.

Edit: Newtons is definately worth it. These science farms are totally remarkable. I've known the concept, but never tried it out myself, but I will from now on.

 

[IstariAsuka]

Wow, sounds like we're really getting into the groove! It's taken us a while to gain control of our continent, but looks like we're on our way to conquest now!

I'll try not to screw all that up on my turns.

 

[Andronicus]

Link to save

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Own_SG008_AD0750_01.SAV

Its 750 AD we are researching Industrialisation, we have the continent to ourselves except for one northern Chinese town of little consequence.

We are currently at peace with everone. We have been trading extensively with Rome giving them techs for 2 lux and lots of gpt.

We have 11 turns left on peace treaty with Greece - I have started buying a force on the Greek Is to take over the whole Is. So far 6LBs ( I bought 4 before realising stupidity of payiong full price for non vets when rax only costs 1 LB - now producing vets. Do we want some trebs (cheaper and helps our LBs last longer) and perhaps 2 cheap spears to save losing more expensive LBs on counterattack.
Vikings have just sent a galley near our SW - dont be surprised if they sneak us - I have upgraded a horse to knight and RR will allow rapid reinforcemnets but may be another 5-6 turns until our core is completely safe. (I have yet to see a zerk but Old Raggy does have invention). We must priopritise defending our core cities as these are the ones we have invested infrastructure in).

We have a few sites left for ICSing - I have stuck LBs on suggested sites in our north.
We have lots of workers for RRing - I suggest it may be time to consider switching corrupt towns to knights (will take 70 turns) then use these shields later as pre-builds for tanks, helis etc

05 has a prebuild going for ToE - it will have 600 shields in about 18 turns - probably sooner with RR of mines; thats why it is not currently working most productive tiles, rather maximising commerce.
Newtons due in 8 turns in 01. It then needs to build factory and Hoovers.

Suggested research path
Industrialisation -> Medicine -> Electricity -> Sci Method (aiming to time in with ToE prebuild -> free AtomicTh & Electronics (in time for Hoover prebuild)
Then flat chat to MT(switch prebuilds to tanks) and then to Adv Fl for helis.

I think our progress is becoming much more rapid now

Turn log

Preflight

Can someone tell me why we have a string of fortresses and barricades - I've never used them before so am in the dark. My understanding is that they cannot prevent enemy landings unless occupied - or am I wrong?

Light on for attacking Greece so buy 5 LBs, starve Athens, start pre-build for Newtons

IT spear d archer 1-0
Metallurgy -> Physics

580AD
Position troops around Delphi

590AD
Take Delphi - vLB d Hop, vLB d Hop 3-0
Position troops around Sparta

IT vSp l to LB promotes 3-1

600AD
vLB d vLB 4-1
Take Sparta - vLB d Hop, eLB d Hop, eHorse l to Hop, vLB d Hop promotes 7-2

IT leave slave out to draw Greek LB - succeeds

610AD
vLB d LB 8-2
Take Thermopylae - vLB d Hop, vLB d Hop, vLB d Hop 11-2

IT Greeks land LB on hill outside Bejing
Physics -> Magnetism

620AD
Musket to Beijing (I rushed musket 2 turns ago in Oakland when saw galley)
Take Knossus - vLB d Hop, vLB d Hop 13-2 (was still building wonder from the last time I did a turn set!)
Realise Xinjian has lib - presumably built to relieve cultural pressure. As has expanded and no value in corrupt region I sell it
Trade Rome WM + 72gpt + 96g for Chemistry, no-one else has anything for trade

IT LB moves off hill near Beijing

630AD
eHorse d LB 14-2
Move troops around Corinth

640AD
only wipe off 2 HPs with trebs so delay a turn B4 attacking
send workers south to RR core

IT vLB l to LB 14-3

Sorry have to go - will complete write up later

 

[Own]

Great progress! We're nearing heli's! I'm confident we might get the laurel, it's hard to beleive somebody could beat us.

I've changed my mind, commie is bad, 8 turns of anarchy is 8 turns slower a win date, plus we'll have to disband a lot of ICS regions cities, mine a lot there, and rush infra, not worth it. Our specialist farms are doing great, and our core can take all.

 

[IstariAsuka]

Great progress! We're nearing heli's! I'm confident we might get the laurel, it's hard to beleive somebody could beat us.

I've changed my mind, commie is bad, 8 turns of anarchy is 8 turns slower a win date, plus we'll have to disband a lot of ICS regions cities, mine a lot there, and rush infra, not worth it. Our specialist farms are doing great, and our core can take all.

I would be surprised if we managed to get the laurel, considering some of the other teams' scores, as well as the fact that we have a few mess-ups.

BTW, did we ever get a Viking city for peace with them? Cuz they were willing to offer that when I had last played, and our alliances against them would have finished early in your turn Adronicus, I think. If not then perhaps I can get us a city on their island.

Consider this a got it.

 

[Andronicus]

Turn log continued

650AD
Take Corinth - this time redline all 3 hops with trebs - vLB d Hop, vLB d Hop, vLB d Hop, vLB d LB (18-3) - we own the useless GLib

IT renew trade with Rome - get furs, wool, WM & 37g for dyes, wine & Physics -> lux to zero
Magnetism -> ToG
Rome builds SoZ scary, they might get 2 or 3 ACs

660AD
Take Pharsolos - vLB d Hop, vLB l to Hop, vHorse l to Hop (promotes), vLB d vHop (20-5) - the final tally of this turn set
Peace with Greeks for Rhodes, Thessalonika, 2gpt & 4g

Assess carefully at Greek island situation.
- they have no iron nor salt
- we have 20 turns to buy an army capable of taking their remaining 4 cities, cash rushing a LB every second turn in both cities will cost 3120g giving 20LBs (I later amended this to purchase rax so they could be vets - may want to consider mixed army with perhaps 10LBs, 2 spears and 6 trebs which will be 400g cheaper).
- hoped Romans didnt suddenly decide to land a stack adjacent like Vikings did - esp as they owe us 127gpt
- when next we attack Greece we should still be facing Hops and LBs.

670AD
Next moves are all the same - mass irrigate the north, ICS cities (left LBs fortified in potential city sites), MM every city every turn (takes forever, but I'm sure doing this in my COTM games would improve the outcome - just not a lot of fun) - used civ assist to ID any city wasting food -> extra scientist

IT - Rome builds Sistine

680AD
zzz

IT - GA ends

690AD
Change MM for post GA production

IT - ToG -> Steam Power -> into IA
only able to do 5 turn research on 100% science with 73 scientists

700AD
zzz

IT - Trade Rome silks, 55gpt, 39g, WM for gems & metallurgy

710AD
zzz
Have many workers (will need lots for RRing shortly). Decide to switch new builds to knights as pre build for tanks and helis. This can be reversed if consensus is we need to do different (currently have 44 native and 17 slave workers).
Decide to cash rush rax in Greek Is towns as 1 less LB worth it if most LBs are vets - should have done this first

720AD
zzz

730AD
zzz

740AD
zzz

IT - Steam Power (we have coal) -> Industrialisation
- scand galley approaching 05 in SW -> 02 & 04 start knight build (can switch to factory ik Vikings dont attack.
- Japan completes Leo's

750AD
Upgrade horse in 01 to knight - I am concerned about an amphibious attack on 05 with nearly 400 shields in prebuild, but Vike galley went S along our coast.

The lonely worker on an unimproved mountain in the SW was a mismove

The Great Northern RR is under construction and RRing core has commenced (01 should be first priority) - mainly need to RR mines, although 08 is short a food and 04 could utilise a fourth mountain if irr is railed.

We have still a minimal defence in our core - should be OK in 5-6 turns with RR and a few knight builds

? should we protect our coastal core towns with 2 muskets and 2LB each to foil zerks - I would hate to lose the valuable infrastructure there.

Research rate requires adjusting - at 100% we can research Industrialisation in 4 turns.
I have MM towns but feel free to adjust as see fit
This was a marathon 7 hour session from me - sorry it took so long to get written up

Roster
IstariAsuka - up
Symphony D - waiting
Own - are you able to play next round?
Abegweit
Andronicus - just played - taking holiday 24/9-2/10

 

[Andronicus]

BTW, did we ever get a Viking city for peace with them? Cuz they were willing to offer that when I had last played, and our alliances against them would have finished early in your turn Adronicus, I think. If not then perhaps I can get us a city on their island.

Dont know what happened - we were at peace when I started my turn. I think at 510AD Abegweit cancelled alliance with Rome, no mention of peace deal with Vikes though.

 

[Andronicus]

Great progress! We're nearing heli's! I'm confident we might get the laurel, it's hard to beleive somebody could beat us.

Sorry to put a dampner on it but I think judging from the territory graphs in the submissions team Wacken has finished in 1160AD, and possibly team Klarius in 1050AD (30 turns from where we are). We have 13 techs(+ 2 freebies with ToE) to research just to get to adv flight and helis - thats 52 turns at 4 turn research which we have not been achieving since end of GA. My est of best date till we achieve this is 1400AD at 5 turn research, then conquor the world .

However, I think a top half finish in the 10 team C3C field is still possible, and would IMO be a very credible result - lets go for it .

 

[Abegweit]

Great stuff, Andronicus! Congrats on an excellent turn set.

Some comments.

Assess carefully at Greek island situation.
- they have no iron nor salt
- we have 20 turns to buy an army capable of taking their remaining 4 cities, cash rushing a LB every second turn in both cities will cost 3120g giving 20LBs (I later amended this to purchase rax so they could be vets - may want to consider mixed army with perhaps 10LBs, 2 spears and 6 trebs which will be 400g cheaper).

This is a distraction. Our money should be going into research. The ONLY priority now is to get to helis ASAP.

Dont know what happened - we were at peace when I started my turn. I think at 510AD Abegweit cancelled alliance with Rome, no mention of peace deal with Vikes though.

My apologies for not mentioning it. I signed peace immediately after cancelling the alliance. I did not want berserkers in our cities while all our forces were in Greece. I got 1g for it. Getting a city on their lands would have been useful, I suppose, but it's a minor thing. The priority is research. I'd rather buy settlers than longbows.