SGOTM8 - Own

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Own_SG008_AD0190_01.SAV

Preflight - switch a few core builds to libs
Greece are the cultural leaders - a few libs should help reduce flip risk as well as boost science
Trade Romans contact Eng & Jap for Dyes 1gpt + 6g
Trade English WM + 35g for Contact Vikings & Lit
Trade Jap WM + 2g for contact Vikings
Trade Greece Feud for contact England & Vikings, WM & 286g
Trade Rome furs, WM, 240g for Feud
Greece, Romans and us are now tech leaders - only us and Greeks have money
Research set to Mono with aim to get Astronomy & Cop ASAP

Turn 1 - 10AD - Greece commences HG in Sparta (they have gone wonder mad with current projects including Sun Tzu's in Athens, ToA in Therm., GLib in Knossos and GLH in Corinth)
I investigate Athens (see screenie below) - 3 hoplites defending. 30 turns at current rate for Sun Tzu's. We have 4 turns left on ROP. We have the choice of attacking Athens soon with our current force or waiting until just after Sun Tzu's built and take it as a bonus. The risk of waiting doesnt seem large as Greece will not be building its military whilst its building wonders. I've decided not to attack now - but if consensus is for early attack then we will not be losing much. Whenever we attack Corinth must be no 2 in our sights to gain iron. I elect not to trade for their wines so we can honorably dow in the next 20 turns.

Turn 2 - 30AD - barb camp appears in central mountains

Turn 3 - 50AD - 01 lib -> market, barb camp dispersed

Turn 4 - 70AD - Vikings found Alesund on isle SW of 02 and 03, 3 viking galleys are in our waters - I fear they will go for our undefended ex-Chinese cities - we cannot afford rushing spears there

Turn 5 - 90AD - Vikings land 3 archers and 2 warriors next to Anyang :( . I try putting off the inevitable by buying all their gold and WM for horses. Decide its a battle we cannot win (at the moment) so gift them Anyang :blush: . We have several other island towns they can just waltz into so we will not benefit from fighting, further we have almost no defences on our core - sorry guys seems like I'm the first to lose a city.

Turn 6 - 110AD - I dont renew rop with Greece - we are free to attack if thats the go

Turn 7 - 130AD - Vikings land 3 warriors and archers at Shantung - I gift this as well :mad:

Turn 8 - 150AD - Greece learns mono - we are due next turn - guess I should have researched Engineering. 05 lib -> harb

Turn 9 - 170AD - Vikings land 2 archers outside Macou - I had rushed a reg spear there - they will attack next turn so I cross my fingers. I also get ROP so their rep really stinks (they even pay me for it)

Turn 10 190AD - Spear holds flawlessly against first archer, then loses flawlessly to second - Macou razed :mad: Kansas City founded (following red dot plan in post 201)

I have micromanaged workers and tiles for this turn. We are at risk of viking attack at our core. I brought 2 horses to northern part of core to control barbs - I suggest bringing all horses south and leave archers to defend northern parts. I think we need to get peace from Vikings before attacking Greece. Several suggestions - ? ally English by giving them mono - down side of this is it locks us into 20 turns of war. Alt ? give vikings mono as soon as they will talk peace.

Note Japan weak - falling to Romans - only 4 cities left. Rome look to be becoming a superpower. Vikings 2nd biggest overseas threat, though they are backward. English have crap land and I dont see them becoming a major force. We are currently trading lux with Romans. We would not want Vikings allying Romans or we may be attacked from both east and west.

Any suggestions?

Roster
Andronicus - just played
IstariAsuka - up next
Symphony D - ? avail yet
stagnate
Own - skipped last round
Abegweit

PS. We are now eligible to read and post in the first spoiler.
 
Own said:
Good giving away decision, it will probably flip back, cause IIRC we're culturally awesome?

Are we connected to the other islands?

I found that if you upload the pics or save to the index of uploads, other teams can look without being found out. Always use the attachment system.
Click to expand...

We are well behind culturally - Greece is the cultural giant

How do you mean connected? - they are islands so no land bridge - you should be able to get an idea from the minimap in my attachment

Whats the index of uploads? - I have only uploaded screenies of Athens @ 10AD and our continent @ 190AD - the link at the top is a shortcut to our save submission for next player to download. Are you saying we shouldnt upload any screenies for our thread?
 
No there is no land connection. We are on the biggest isle with Greece and China (they only have one on this isle - on the northern iron). Next is the Roman . Jap isle only slightly smaller with Japs down to just 4 cities. English have next largest but it is crappy jungle almost everywhere and has 1 or 2 Viking cities in the south. When I est embassy with England London was producing 3spt and due to build ToA in over 40 turns already about 2/3 of the way there. Vikings have a decent sized island then there is a number of smaller isles including China's iron and capital on one and 2 isles which Vikings razed and were gifted our cities, Greece also has a few island cities

With the save, I submitted it to the submissions page and then followed the instructions to right click on the shortcut pasting it to the top of my post - I'm not sure what you are suggesting I ought to have done but this is the instructions on the submissions page - I admit I find it all rather confusing.
 
ARGH.

So I was playing and writing up my turn log here as I went when I lost power ~ 6 turns in. So, yeah, I had to reload from the autosave from the turn before (the autosave for that turn got corrupted). And I lost my turn log. Basically, though, not too much happened.

I bribed England and China into war with Vikings.

260 AD
Got Theology (took 4 turns), set to Education (will only take 4 turns due to massive scientists).
Start Sistine's chapel in 01 as a prebuild.

270 AD
MMing.

280 AD
MMing.

290 AD
MMing.

300 AD
Got Education (took 4 turns), set to Astronomy.
Greeks Got Theology.
Traded Theology + World Map to England for Engineering + 34GP

---Saved at this point so I can get feedback from you guys.---

Romans are willing to trade 128GP + 14GPT + Monarchy + Silks + World Map + Alliance vs Vikings for Education... and interesting idea. We really do need the money to continue our current research pace.

Astronomy is going to take 6 turns basically no matter what--we don't have enough money to get it down to 5. We can get rid of some of our scientists (or change them to tax collectors), lower tech slider a bit, and get it in 7 turns at a (small) positive income.

Losing one turn of research seems better than trading away Education. Especially since this will also allow us to eliminate a few of our scientists, who can go back to actually working tiles.

What do you guys think?

Oh, and BTW, Vikings are willing to trade away one city for peace--provided its one of their crappy cities. Though I don't see us doing that now and breaking our treaties, in ~12 turns this could be a nice way to get a foothold on another continent.
 
The thing is that I'm not sure prolonging the war with the Vikings for another ~8 turns is a smart move at this point.
 
IstariAsuka said:
Romans are willing to trade 128GP + 14GPT + Monarchy + Silks + World Map + Alliance vs Vikings for Education... and interesting idea. We really do need the money to continue our current research pace.
Click to expand...
Excellent! Can we get the deal w/o alliance?
 
Abegweit said:
Excellent! Can we get the deal w/o alliance?
Click to expand...
Yes, we can.

I'm just wary about trading away a monopoly tech for 408GP and silks--to the strongest AI, even.

However, that seems to be the consensus, so unless somebody else chimes in before I continue the game later tonight or tomorrow, I'll make the trade (with the alliance). Rome needs to expend themselves a little, they're getting really powerful, so if I do the trade I'm gonna get them involved. Slowing down their tech pace in this way may even make up for giving them a tech.
 
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm8/Own_SG008_AD0350_01.SAV

---------------------------------------------------

300 AD
Trade Education to Rome for stuff previously mentioned.

Could trade Education to get Greece involved as well, but I think it's prudent to leave them be. They won't be able to afford to buy Education from Rome for awhile, and I want them as far behind us tech-wise as possible when the time comes to destroy them.

Set tech to 100, make a fair number of scientists, will get Astronomy in 5. -28 GPT.

310 AD
Not much.

320 AD
Greece randomly gets a ton of gold. I can't resist, and we need it to research. So, I trade Education to them for wines, 44 GP, and 13 GPT. (If I didn't do this deal I'm sure they'd have bought it from Rome in a turn or two.)

The only city Vikings will give us for peace, if we ever make it, happens to be on England's continent. Very convenient. May be even worth breaking our treaty to get before they change their minds? I'll leave that for the next player to decide.

330 AD
Manage to get us to +8 GPT.

340 AD
Nothing out of the usual MMing.

350 AD
Got Astronomy (took 5 turns). Set to Banking (5 turns) because computers will be researching Invention. I figure this way we can get to the IA faster, by having them research something. If they can do it in less than 9 turns they'll save us a bit of time.

Copernicus due in 01 in 17 turns.

---------------------------------------------------

For the next player:

I have not changed any of the sliders or specialists around this turn at all. I doubt you'll want to leave them as-is now that we've started on a new tech, so make sure to take a look.

We have 8 turns left with England and China, 15 with Rome, and 17 with Greece in our treaties. All treatiest except the one with Greece involve war against the Vikings.

---------------------------------------------------

Map_350AD.jpg
 
Own said:
Just checking, is 001 are highest commerce city?

Another thing, we might want to switch to commie later on (or not, I don't know) so is it wise to be ICSing like that?
Click to expand...

I have no experience with communism but I gather your comment is in relation to spreading the corruption. My feeling is this may make our core cities less productive - but again I have no experience here.
If we wish to switch to commmunism later we can abandon those extra ICS cities (they should not build any improvements except those with less than full production - eg the 2 south of ECB). Meanwhile these cities help reduce our unit support costs and provide quite a number of scientists. It should be possible to cram in an extra 20 or so cities supporting an extra 20 units and 40 scientists per turn with grass all irrigated.
Communism is a optional tech so going for it would slow research pace, although it may become avail in a trade - I feel we dont have to make a decision till then.
 
Alright, move is mostly completed. I'll try and get it played through tomorrow. If not, then it will most definitely be up on Tuesday. No mistakes this time. :scan:

[EDIT] Life happens. :rolleyes: Make that Wednesday (today).
 
TURNLOG:
Turn 00 / 350 AD - Preflight check: cannot lower research time for Banking from 5 turns to 4 even through conversion of all specialists to scientists (excepting 01), and we're at 100% Research. Checking around, turning more citizens into specialists doesn't help if it's at all reasonable. Some research facilities coming online soon (libraries mostly) but it seems prudent to boost cash, rush libraries, and make the next tech faster. Changing some scientists to taxmen keeps Banking in 5, but improves GPT from +9 to +31. 5 turns of this will be 155 gold, some of which can be used to rush libraries in the interim. Micromanage 01's Copernicus down to 15 turns from 17. Cash rush a library in 04 for fish access (necessary due to MMing of 01).

On another note: Vikings are willing to give us any 2 of the following 3 cities for peace: Molde, Stavanger, and Bodo. Stavanger is on the Viking mainland. Not much good as it'd screw our reputation. Greece is willing to offer WM, 22 GPT, and 44 GP for Astronomy, but it's a Monopoly tech and war with them should be our next priority, so... into the breach. IBT 02 and 04 complete Libraries. Put both on Marketplaces. We need cash and Universities are hella expensive right now.
Turn 01 / 360 AD - Look at lowering Research time after Library construction - still not possible. Do some more micromanaging - lower Research to 90% and adjust some Scientists and Taxmen to get +43 GPT (100% with more taxmen would've been +39 GPT). Move workers around. Prioritize Settler builds - we have little room left and a whole lot of settlers processing. We'll need these for Greece for sure, but it seems premature. 10 or so would be enough to get a good chunk of Greece once needed, 1 is already produced and enroute, and 2 more can be squeezed in. 13 total. Tally shows we have 16 producing. Trim the slowest (Shanghai [20], 10 [24], Kansas City [16]), convert first two to workers, third to Library. Everything else looks OK. End turn.
Turn 02 / 370 AD - Rush Courthouse in 14 - only 12 GP, saves 3 turns. Move units here and there, not much interesting. Greeks have Chivalry. They offer Chivalry, WM, 23 GPT, and 111 GP for Astronomy. No point considering we have no iron. End turn. IBT 06 completes Library.
Turn 03 / 380 AD - Cash Rush Library in 03. More MMing - 55 GPT, same research time. 16 Founded. Further MMing - 63 GPT. Yet more MMing - 64 GPT. Stabilize some ICS cities in population. Shift 04, 06, and 14 to Archers - we're going to need a lot more units to kill Greece. Not much else occurs - workers beginning to run out of tasks. Start some on fortifying the coast. IBT 03 completes Library. Athens completes Sun Tzu's Art of War - excellent prize in an upcoming war.
Turn 04 / 390 AD - Not much happens. MM to get 74 GPT. Green light to next turn. IBT China offers to trade WM - they'll give us 10 Gold, but why bother? We learn Banking, go to Invention as a place holder until can check with the AIs.
Turn 05 / 400 AD - Check with AI - none have Invention. Rush University in 05. Go for Printing Press as a throw-away tech to buy stuff with. Due in 4 turns with +94 GPT.
Turn 06 / 410 AD - 17 founded. Don't think and miss an opportunity to found 18. Rush Aquaduct in Buffalo.
Turn 07 / 420 AD - 18 founded. MMing has us at 72 GPT.
Turn 08 / 430 AD - 19 and 20 founded. Rush a Library in Xinjian. MMing gets us to 97 GPT. Everything looks good. Next turn. IBT Vikings and English sign a peace treaty. Deal with Chinese against Vikings comes up for renewal - decline it.
Turn 09 / 440 AD - Nobody has Invention; the AI sucks. Research Invention. +43 GPT in 4 Turns MM'd. Most of the North on Libraries (Courthouses do little good right now, we have sufficient workers for now - more would just drain the economy and occupy troop slots). Middle on Settlers for post-invasion Settling (10 should be good - 4 currently). Core finishing up infrastructure before switching to Archers and Trebuchets. End turn. IBT Vikings offer peace - no deal. English offer Territory Map swap - add 2 Gold to their side and accept.
Turn 10 / 450 AD - Nobody has Invention; the AI really sucks. There has been absolutely no technological innovation except Chivalry. See no room for improvement right now - advise overview on preflight for next player.

NOTES:
Next objective should be war with Greece and domination of the continent. Our primary means of attack will basically be Trebuchets and Archers. Once 05 and 02 finish their Marketplaces should probably be put on Archers. Same for Buffalo and 08 after they finish their infrastructure. Advise a force of perhaps 30 Archers, 15 to 20 Trebuchets. Primary method of attack should be from Xinjian (fortress city) to Athens to secure Sun Tzu's and Wines, then north to Corinth to secure Iron. I would say 2/3 of the strike force (approx 20 Archers, 10 Trebuchets) should be dedicated to this, with 1/3 (10 Archers, 5 Trebuchets) going along the east coast (Sparta to Thermopylae). A small reserve force should also be used to take Delphi, though it seems fairly lightly defended. Buildup for this should take 1 - 2 more player rotations.

Regarding Scandinavia, it may be possible to wrangle Stavanger out of them once treaty with Rome ends, in which case we have a base in their homeland.

Invention will finish in 3 turns. Copernicus' will finish in 4 turns (maybe shorter once workers finish a forest - probably not). I suggest putting in a prebuild for Newton's and then going up the research chain for it. I think this turn set demonstrates the AI is fairly worthless for research at this point and shouldn't even be bothered with. Printing Press can be sold for little consequence.

Longer term, I suggest Communism - our core is tiny and making our entire empire productive is vastly more useful than having a handful of decent cities. Plus, if we secure Stavanger, that might make it a useful production city to begin harassment of the Vikings early. No units should be on automove, but there might be an archer or worker here or there.


(Click to enlarge)

SAVE AT 450 AD

ROSTER
Andronicus - n/a
IstariAsuka -n/a
Symphony D. - Just Played
stagnate - Up Next
Own - On Deck?
Abegweit - n/a
 
Interesting times - I think you did a great MM job with boosting of science

I note your approach of getting Stavanger in peace treaty then building force in there once in communism - communism will not be avail for a long time and my experience with the cities we got from China in peace treaty was to be attacked before had any chance to build a force

Do we really need 30 archers? The longer we delay attacking Greece the more vet hoplites they will have. The approach needs to be, I think, redlining them with trebs then using archers or horses to kill - horses have advantage of chance of retreating plus more usefullness if later upgraded to provide a mobile force to defend our shores

Re unis - we will soon be in our GA - a good time to build unis then banks? (although may have to finish war with Greece first)
 
Will get it tonight.

I agree that horses will be preferable to archers, and we'll need trebs to do some damage.

With repub we will be able to rush at least one defensive unit in a city on the viking mainland, and I think that will be ok as long as we don't get them really mad at us. A single defender (even a warrior) makes a big difference.

Regardless, we won't be launching an attack against the vikings for awhile; we don't want to go up against their UU until we get calvary.
 
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