SGOTM8 - Wacken

I think 20 cavalry is a rather weak force to attack england and if needed defend ourselves against the Vikings.

I think if we can get cities oversea, 49 cavalry a little later will very quickly catch up with what those 20 could have been doing.

While the smaller cav force has more time before AF, i think the bigger force can do the same conquering in the 12 turns it has before AF.

I vote Dam first, but still it is a reasonably close call and i am not sure that i am right.

Everyone give his oppinion here please.
 
I don't have a very strong opinion but i think i like the idea of going after Hoovers 1st better.
 
I don't think this is clearcut either, and the initial force against England does look a bit thin. I don't object to hoover's, I just wanted us to be clear that there is an alternative.

Regarding switches from the prebuilds, what would be wrong with a bank: it strikes me that we are going to want a lot of cash.
 
Offa said:
I don't think this is clearcut either, and the initial force against England does look a bit thin. I don't object to hoover's, I just wanted us to be clear that there is an alternative.

Regarding switches from the prebuilds, what would be wrong with a bank: it strikes me that we are going to want a lot of cash.
Click to expand...
It strikes me we research at 100% for the comming 30 turns:)


Edit: What would we have to expect from the invasion. ?
If we could get a city well before we have flight, then we could have workers read before we flight and start transporting cavs the very first turn after flight.

If we can only get a city after flight, it will take at least a turn before we get a worker out, then we transport a worker, then we transport 2 workers and 3 turns after peace we have 4 airstrips.
For the 49 cavs to be usefull, we would need to get multiple cities and at least one before flight.

If we don't get a city before bombing them, flight first becomes a better choise since else we have an overdose of cavalry that we cannot even transport.

So, now i completely don't know anymore. I am tending to get a slight preference for Flight.
I kinda don't expect very much from the conquest before flight. Either we have no airstrips in time, or we have slightly few ground units.
The most important question for me now remains, do i prefer 15 more bombers, or 29 more cavalry.
 
Well, it's working beautifully! Keep up the good work.
 
We can't transport workers through the airport. I have to admit after looking at the numbers I'm kinda leaning towards hoover earlier. I agree with the 100% research for the next 30 turns or so.
 
Xevious said:
We can't transport workers through the airport. I have to admit after looking at the numbers I'm kinda leaning towards hoover earlier. I agree with the 100% research for the next 30 turns or so.
Click to expand...

We can't? :eek:

In that case, i don't really see much conquest happening pre AF.

15 bombers or 29 cavalry ? :p

edit
If we go flight first, we will have plenty of time pre AF and we will have 15 more bombers to punish our enemies. We must rely on bombers to kill the enemies, the cavalries are only good to capture the (almost) empty cities since we can only transport small numbers now.

If we go dam first, we have 15 less bombers and 29 more cav. Also less time between flight and AF. This means we will not be conquering anything pre AF.
After AF, we can quickly spread out, but the 29 cavs have been sitting jobless for quite some time. While the 15 bombers we build we flight can bomb and kill every turn from the moment they are built.

After AF, if we went for the bombers, we have more airforce firepower in bombers and need less choppers and we have easier logistics transporting our fewer ground units.


What stack of units do we prefer to have after AF? The cavs or the bombers?
-This imo depends on what we expect our opponents to have. I they have rifles, i prefer to have bombers since cavs will not be very succesfull.
If they have pikes / muskets, cavs can do quite reasonable here and might be able to kill more than the bombers can. With transporting however, it is still a pretty close call between the 2. I think we can expect at least the Vikings to be a good target for our cavalry.

Can we kill and conquer enough pre AF with the flight plan to make up for 4 turns later AF ?
-this egain comes down to the fact that the cavs are sitting jobless if we have so many. The 15 extra bombers will be bombing for 20 turns by the time we have AF. The cavs will have done nothing until then. How fast can 29 cavs make up for 300 bomber attacks ? Probably takes 20 turns or so. This seems to favor the bombers and flight plan.


BTW: tell me if i need to stop posting the everything that my messy mind produces :p
 
lurker's comment: I tried to set up a game where there was not clear-cut road to the fastest victory.. seems I did OK on that goal :lol:
 
Greetings lurkers :) . Gyathaar, it is indeed a fun game, and I am pleased you are enjoying the fallout. I just hope no one wins by sneaky tactics involving troop teleportation/palace jumps/multiple extortion of towns, and especially that the winning team didn't have a lucky slingshot ;) .

On my test ( basically a late save from my only space game in C3C cotm9) workers transported just fine via airstrips, as did cavalry and tanks. Filled armies wouldn't move, and neither would artillery.

Re helicopters, has anyone ever researched advanced flight before? It seems the designers of Civ were farsighted, as the tech and helicopters were surely designed with this variant in mind.

Anyway I mutilated my space game to acquire AF and find out how helicopters work. Normally they only take foot soldiers (ie no workers, settlers, tanks, cavalry) but apparently this game is modded so they will take workers and settlers.

The airdrop command with helicopters dumps the troops at a chosen square in the helicopters range and then the chopper itself instantly returns to the town it started at, ready to use again next turn. We won't need many of them therefore.
 
Well, after thinking about it a bit more and taking the last couple posts into account, I going to vote for flight first.
 
- Bombers have lethal sea bombard only (lethal land bombard removed)
Click to expand...

Lurker's commentForgive me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you guys are talking about using bombers to kill targets when it appears lethal land bombard has been disabled
 
$50 bag, I am glad someone is paying attention, and welcome to civFanatics :) .You are obviously a discerning reader. Wacken is the main bomber enthusiast and he takes everything into consideration. Wacken, you have taken this into consideration haven't you?

Actually I don't think it matters much as reducing defenders to 1HP, and reducing cities to <7 pop is still pretty good. The only problem would be attemping to finish off 1/3(reg) infantry with cavalry, as it has a tendency to result in 5/5(elite) infantry the following turn. I have always preferred the idea of airlifting groundtroops/cav/tanks anyway.
 
:crazyeye: Oh well... it is 10:30 PM here and this is 1st time i opened the thread since coming from work... I am glad i didn't even tried to play tonight again.
What a dissarray....
Surely Wacken thought we had lethal bombers and so did I.
Oh well.... those paratroopers i never used in my life come in mind again :crazyeye:
Never did i used helicopters but we still have few turns sets to talk about those...

I am still in favor of going for Hoovers, it will bring us GAs earlier and we will build more troops...

@Offa: I am not worried about Cavs against 1hp infantry especially if we manage to get city size below pop 6 using our bombers. I'd guess we need in average 3 vet Cavs against each 1hp infantry defender to be on a safe side.

Airstrips can be used to ship all military units except artillery. Workers can be air-lifted IIRC but settlers can not.

@Wacken: We ONLY NEED ONE DESTINATION AIRFIELD. You can send as many units to a single airfield as you want. It is source airfield you can use only once per turn.

@Team: I'll play tomorrow... i guess
 
OK, read through yesterday's posts. A good discussion, typical I have such a heavy workload in RL ATM I barely have time to keep up in this discussion. Will be better after the 10th if this game lasts that long.

Re. research path, I am slightly in favour of building Hoover's first. I believe there to be too many if, but and maybe's in flight first.
 
Ok, it seems i forgot some things yes.

-We need only one landing strip, so we CAN bring all those cavs. (thanx for the caps Dman, sometimes it is needed to get trough :p)
-We do not have lethal bombardment :cry: so the cavs are more important already there.

This again leadswards to the Hoover Dam choise.

I still see quite some differences in everyones oppinions:
-Gman: Flight
-Wotan: Dam
-Dman: Dam
-Offa: Flight (assumption because you came with the idea)
-Xevious: Flight
-Wacken: Will see what you guys do :)

Tell me if this is not correct.
 
50_dollar_bag said:
Lurker's commentForgive me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you guys are talking about using bombers to kill targets when it appears lethal land bombard has been disabled
Click to expand...
Lurker's comment
In PtW and Vanilla lethal land bombardment is disabled, but with standard C3C rules Bombers are able to kill land units. Anyhow, I don't know whether this was changed in this SGOTM?

I'm lurking Team Smackster and its remnants since SGOTM 3 and I must say, it's always a pleasure. Keep up the good work :goodjob:

edit: whoops, sorry! I didn't intend to confuse you. :blush:
 
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