SGOTM8 - Wacken

[WackenOpenAir]

Wacken, I think dman said there is no remaining prebuild for Washington so if SF gets switched to ToE, Washington is unable to retain its shields. Or did I read this wrong?

We ran out of 800shield prebuilds, but we still have 600 shield prebuilds. So use a 600 prebuild on Washington, make sure it takes 4 turns to complete, and preferably have 599 shields ready the 3th turn. Then, swich to hoover when SF makes ToE. This because either city will have 600 in 3 turns, and Washington then has a better production to finish hoover faster.

I am also pretty sure that you get science advances before buildings so getting refining in 3 and TOE in 3 as well should be OK. Correct me if I am wrong.

That is correct.

Isn't it a bit late in the day for some of these peaceful builds?

dunno what builds you are talking about as i don't have the file here now, i only remember seeing an aquaduct and 2 harbors. I have had my doubts about each of those, but decided that they are ok. The harbors provide food, enabling more mined grasslands. Each mined grassland will be lots of production. These harbors are well worth it by the production they make possible.
About the courthouse i still have some doubts about its value. But if any city can benefit from it, it would be here. It will probably clear up 2 or 3 shields. That will be 4 or 5 in our golden age maybe. And commerce of course. Finally, it now costs us a cavalry unit we could be building, and the payback will be when we build bombers/tanks, which obviously are a better investment than cavs.

 

[dmanakho]

For whatever reason i thought Buildings come before scientific advances.
I guess i just panicked on my last turn...
so if we can do it the way Wacken says we are fine then.

Just remember to mine that plains tile near Washington...
And of cource MM shields for cav production....

I thought i switched to a worker in Vadso but i gues i didn't.
The reason i started building harbor is because the citizen there was unhappy and i could not build a worker no matter what. But i think by the end of my turns he became content and i thought i switched build to worker.....

As for techs go yes I was able to get every tech in 4 turns so far.

I think courthouses might help in some cities to boost production

We should also get nationalism in trade. That will allow us to mobilize when we start final push and improve our military production rate.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

We should also get nationalism in trade. That will allow us to mobilize when we start final push and improve our military production rate.

Hmm, now you talk about mobilisation, i vaguely remember that term. What does it do exactly?

 

[dmanakho]

Mobilization is good...
AFAIK it doubles shields that town produces for all military units with exception of artillery. But it also prohibits any other builds but military

 

[grahamiam]

Mobilization is good...
AFAIK it doubles shields that town produces for all military units with exception of artillery. But it also prohibits any other builds but military

in other words, in terms of shields, its practically a GA for a civ trying to achieve a military victory.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

How does it stack with factory + hoover + GA ?

Are bombers counted as artillery and also excluded?

I assume we are alowed to complete our current builds?

And i vaguely remember something about reduces science. But not sure if that was with mobilisation and if it was civ2 or 3.

Maybe we should look to do this mobilisation ASAP.

 

[dmanakho]

1. You can only mobilize when you are at war with someone
2. Mobilization automaticaly cancels itself when you make 1st peace agreement
3. have no idea if effect is cumulative with GA or not... I know for fact it doubles shields after Factory and hoover are applied.
4. we need nationalization to learn how to mobilize


Important EDIT: We are not allowed to finish our current builds after mobilization... All current builds are automatically cancelled and switched to something of military importance. Other than units i think one can buld barracks and airports.
and I don't think it reduces science

More EDIT: I don't remember how bombers are counted.... never tried

 

[grahamiam]

mobilization bonus does not apply to artillary units (bombers included). It also cuts cultural output by 50%, not that it matters to us when we start in on our foes. here's a discussion on the subject with lead-offs into other threads. I've used mobilization a few times, and you are severely restricted in regards to builds (military units and buildings only) but the boost to unit production can be significant. Also note: shield bonus does not apply to military structural improvements as well as the before mentioned arty units.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=109113&page=1&pp=20&highlight=mobilization

 

[WackenOpenAir]

It doubles AFTER factory and plant WOW.

Is there any other limits on the activation?

If we have war with 2 civs and make peace with one of them. Can we imeadiately reactivate it since we are still at war with another civ? Or what limit is there to prevent this?

We need to think about this very seriously. From the moment the Hooverdam is completed, this is an important option.

We then need to decide how to combine this with our ROP rape plans. If it can't be combined, maybe it is better to do without ROP rape plans for a doubled production is damn mighty.

We don't need to build any more buildings after the hooverdam i think. (we only need worker made airstrips i guess) Culture is insignificant.

If i understand correctly, bombers can still be build but do not benefit.

If there is no time limit on this, we could declare on Greece and have mobilisation between completing Hoover and researching flight.
In fact, we could use greece whenever we want to toggle mob. on and off.
Then we could produce some bombers, and activate mob. again when we are gonna produce tanks.
Since this effectively doubles the cost of bombers, we want to build a minimum of those and spend the most possible time in mobilisation for building ground units. Good thing we didn't do flight first

With this effectively double cost for bombers, it might even be right to do without bombers all together, producing many more ground units and just using helicopters and offensive towns when we have AF.

Just some wild thoughts, we need to think carefully about these things.

Some of our cities would produce 1 turn tanks, most others 2 turn tanks hmmmmm

 

[MeteorPunch]

lurker's comment: you can't mobilize in normal GOTM, so check to see if you can in this game.

 

[Gyathaar]

lurker's comment: you can't mobilize in normal GOTM, so check to see if you can in this game.

It is enabled in SGOTMs.
(as a small hint I would just like you point out a lot of wrong info has been written about mobilization in your posts so far.. what info is wrong is for you to figure out )

 

[grahamiam]

It is enabled in SGOTMs.
(as a small hint I would just like you point out a lot of wrong info has been written about mobilization in your posts so far.. what info is wrong is for you to figure out )

maybe Offa can take a look at that Modern game he was playing and determine the effects of mobilization? That way we don't confuse things.

 

[dmanakho]

I also have some old saves of modern age games...
I will look at it tonight and will post all the mobilization details i find in this thread.

 

[grahamiam]

.

 

[Offa]

maybe Offa can take a look at that Modern game he was playing and determine the effects of mobilization? That way we don't confuse things.

I have just had a quick look at my modern age game ( I haven't loaded the real game yet):

1 mobilization is enabled in COTM.
2 existing builds of peaceful stuff will get switched automatically, shields aren't lost,.
3 You can build harbor, airport, coastal fortress.
4 Science output appears intact.
5 The production bonus only kicks in for some units: eg not for a bomber but yes for cavalry. There is no bonus for airport builds etc.
The bonus is one extra shield if a square is producing at least one shield. Clearly this is similar to Golden Age, and means we ought to limit irrigated grass (zero shields) as much as practical.


Edit: I have just read the previous posts about mobilisation I can see we haven't tried out modern age warfare recently.

Edit 2: Clearly mobilisation is not an issue until Hoover is built, and it is actually therefore an argument in favour of building Hoover before flight. Once we get Hoover, mobilisation looks the thing for us as long as all necessary factoies are built.

Of course we do need to get nationalism which is very expensive. I would have thought we wait for Rome to get Rep Parts and then buy both techs from them. Paying Rome a load of gpt and then immediately declaring might be the way, or will our lost rep mean we can't get ROPs?

 

[dmanakho]

We can get nationalism from Japan.
If they don't give it to us for Industrialisation and Electricity gift it to them and they should give us Nationalism for Corporation and Sci. Meth.

 

[Offa]

I won't finish tonight so I am afraid you will have to wait longer.

I played just 3 turns. TOE is built, I took atomic/electronics so as not to cause disagreement. Hoover is due in 5.

Just to entertain you:

I have just moved the cav in, Anyang was empty on the ibt when this Roman MI landed. Do you think we can trade a tech for wool with Rome? Rome is currently paying us a lot of gpt, and I fear Caesar is not intending a social visit.

 

[dmanakho]

I have just moved the cav in, Anyang was empty on the ibt when this Roman MI landed. Do you think we can trade a tech for wool with Rome? Rome is currently paying us a lot of gpt, and I fear Caesar is not intending a social visit.

I bet you a Pepsi Cola Ceasar is going to attack us next IBT so all the deals will be off.... Good time to buy Nationalism from Ceasar right now for gpt .
Also MDI has a good chance to kill our reg Cav and destroy that city.
We don't want city to be destroyed it will cause unhapiness.

Also, what happens if you ask Ceasar out or else???

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Might they rethink their attack now that we defended the town ?

It would be nice if we could get their gpt for a few more turns....

 

[dmanakho]

They might or they might not...
I'd put a second cavalry in that town just to be on the safe side if they do attack.