SGOTM8 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Nice job Gator.


A couple of questions.
We have 7 Regular Warriors ATM. Is there a reason not to change Philly and Seattle to Barracks now and Boston and Atlanta after the workers complete?

Once we have Lit., do you think it is wise to hold on to it until Map Making is available? How long do you think we'll have to wait and is it worth it?

Where do we go from here on research, up the ladder to Code of Laws? Headed for Republic? Or do we think Mathematics headed for Currency? And at what rate?

If we have Iron available, I think we need to start building Vet Warriors and save up some Gold for upgrade? Once Map Making is ours, it is time to think about prepping an army of conquest?

I'm thinking the settler in Washington should be used to complete the core (City Site 1, SE, E and E). The next one, or even two, can head up to the dyes area.

For the workers, get the core set-up, use one to road and colonize the gems and another to help road to the north.

 

[DJMGator13]

It would be nice to meet more civs before we learn LIT but with being 3 techs behind that we can see we may be better off trading it right away. Besides that would let them start on the Great Library.

I've got 3 of the regular warriors in the southern area. It would be nice to get rid of that Barb camp, then light up that area and form a colony on the gems.

Not sure about what to research next until we can see what we acquire through the trade. Obvisously something we think we can use to trade with later.

 

[leif erikson]

Do you think 7 Warriors are enough to hold us until we can get Barracks built? I dislike building too many of any Reg unit. Building the barracks would let the towns grow some so we can pump out some warriors, if we have iron, or archers if not.

BTW - Almost forgot the roster.

Leif - Up
Willow - On Deck (on the return flight?)
Capt.
Nemesis
Gator - Just Played and traded with Bluebox
Bluebox

I am planning to start tomorrow evening to allow some time to have a peek and some discussion.

 

[DJMGator13]

All cities except for Washington are size 1 so I'd either keep them on workers or start some barracks. I think for now the 7 warriors are OK. Most of the cities grow in 10 but are producing 2spt so we either build some barracks or more regular warrior while waiting for the growth.

I'd build the barracks in the better shield locations first. I'd also alternate the cities. Don't switch them all at the same time.

Good luck, I'll check back in after work tomorrow.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

I'd like rax now 2.
Nice work, gator

From now on a from me should count as
I'm just way too lazy...

 

[leif erikson]

From now on a from me should count as
I'm just way too lazy...

Really, that means:

Hi, You're right and I agree completely. I hate to type and am far too lazy as well. So from now on we should just use smilies as they are point and click!
I'm sure you get the last one!!
LOL as I ran out of smilies!! lol lol lol

 

[bluebox]

Great work, Gator! The scoregraph looks very promising!

I like the poprushing thing. Don't know much about it and would like to learn more about how to use it effectively.

I absolutely agree with Gator suggesting to cycle barracks building and only have two of the four cities building barracks at once. We are much more flexible this way, building workersm, settlers or switching to regwarriors if neccessary.

Here's the point I'd get controversial in our discussion and suggest going for the dyes with the next settler. Building the core is very important of course, but a settler can reach a core building site in a turn or two, whereas the dyes need a long trip. We should invest the hypothetical turns of a new core city for a dyes settling travel.

I think LIT should be traded a soon as we get it to get IW and everything else we can get; we might even encounter a tech brokering opportunity that would push us forward techwise. The next research project (or maybe research shutdown ) could be decided the turn LIT is learned and traded. It very much depends on what the tech market needs.

Good luck, Leif!

 

[leif erikson]

I like the poprushing thing. Don't know much about it and would like to learn more about how to use it effectively.

If you want ot learn more about pop-rushing, please see our SGOTM06 thread Its sort of long though! That whole game was spent in Despotism or Communism and we pop-rushed until we fell asleep at the keyboard!

Here's the point I'd get controversial in our discussion and suggest going for the dyes with the next settler. Building the core is very important of course, but a settler can reach a core building site in a turn or two, whereas the dyes need a long trip. We should invest the hypothetical turns of a new core city for a dyes settling travel.

Well, the question is which is more important, getting the core up and running with Barracks, etc. or claiming a dye? I shall ponder some more!

 

[DJMGator13]

I'd probably go ahead and start our current settler on a trip towards the dyes. Washington should be able to build a new settler in 4 turns so we can add to the core by turn 5 or 6 and have our settler well on its way to the dyes.

The gems can only be hooked up with a colony and we have to road across mountains to reach it.

Good luck to the Mad Viking.

@Bluebox - that was actually the first time I've poprushed a settler that early in the game. But the city was growing to size 4 on the same turn that it had 10 shields in the box. So by rushing I sped that settler up by 20 turns and alleviated a happiness issue in that city. I thought about it for a while and then decided to do it.

SGOTM06 consisted of 3 to 4 hours a turn of mm/drafting/disbanding/poprushing and even shortrushing. I learned a lot in that game and owe a big thank you to Gyathaar for sharing his knowledge.

 

[leif erikson]

Pre-flight Turn 60 – 1500 BC
Settler NW and N, headed for the dyes.
Change warrior builds in Seattle and Philly to Barracks.
Everything else looks A-OK, so press enter.

IBT
Washington expands due to culture.

Turn 61 – 1475 BC
Settler N and N.
Worker near Boston mines.
Worker moves through Seattle in-between Chicago.
Warrior fortifies in Philly and north of Barb Camp.
Warrior E, next to Barb Camp.
Warriors move north towards China and South towards Greece.
Hire a taxman in New York.

IBT
ZZZzzz

Turn 62 – 1450 BC
Settler NW, N and N.
Worker roads near Seattle.
Move Scouting Warriors.
Reg Warrior attacks a Barb Camp on a mountain and we defeat him, redlining in the process. We pick up 25 Gold.
Wake Reg Warrior near Barb Camp and move west.
Lux slider to 30% as Washington grew to size 6. MM Washington for food.

IBT
New York Worker => Worker.
Boston Worker => Barracks.
Atlanta Worker => Barracks.

Turn 63 – 1425 BC
Settler NE.
Scouting Warriors move, one into Greek territory.
Workers moved, one headed north, one headed for gems.
Warrior fortifies to heal.
Warrior moves to keep mountains near Philly lit.
Clicked out of CivAssist by accident! Dumb. :thumbdown Do manual checks.

IBT
Greek complain because we are in their territory, I apologize.
Greece is annoyed with us.
Washington Settler => Settler.
We are notifies that the Greeks are building The Oracle.

Turn 64 – 1400 BC
New Settler SE and E, headed for final city site.
Scouting Warriors are in Greek and Chinese territory.
Workers move, irrigate near Seattle.
Lux slider to 20%, Science slider to 80%, Lit in 4 turns?
China has Map Making!

IBT
China complains that we are in their territory, I nicely apologize.
Chicago Worker => Worker.

Turn 65 – 1375 BC
Southern Settler E, found town next turn.
Scouting warrior moves deeper into Greek territory.
Northern Settler NE.
Hmm?, Greece does not yet have Map Making, but they do have plenty of Gold, 134.

IBT
Greece complains and our Warrior is automatically thrown out of Greek territory.

Turn 66 – 1350 BC
The game threw our warrior out of Greek territory, but to a great place to see another island to the south of Greece, with, what else, a horse on it.
Workers move, mine and irrigate.
Southern Settler founds the town of San Fransisco and starts a worker.
Scouting Warrior moves back into Greece.
Now Greece also has Map Making, China has their Gold.
Washington grows, lux slider to 30%, science to 70%, Lit now in 3 turns.

IBT
Greece complains we are in their territory, we apologize.
A Barb Warrior moves onto our road on a mountain near New York, we have no warriors to counter.

Turn 67 – 1325 BC
Forgot to MM Washington and threw off the factory! :shakehead
Settler north.
Workers move, irrigate and mine.

IBT
Barb Warrior moves south towards New York.

Turn 68 – 1300 BC
Settler founds Miami near the dyes and starts a worker.
Warrior fortifies in Miami.
Scouting Warriors find Beijing and Athens.
Lit in 1 turn, science slider to 20%.

IBT
Greece is upset with us and we are thrown out of their territory.
Greece and China must have an ROP as I saw Chinese Warriors make multiple moves inside of Greek territory on their roads.
Barb Warrior ransacks New York for 7 Gold.
We discover Lit. For the moment I set it to Code of Laws at 10%.
Washington Settler => Settler.

Turn 69 – 1275 BC
Settler NW and N.
We move back into Greek territory.
We move around Beijing
We visit China and trade Lit to them for Map Making plus their World Map.
We visit Greece and trade them Lit plus our World Map for Iron working and their World Map.
We go back to China and trade them our World Map plus 59 Gold for Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code.
We have no Iron either!
Greece has both Iron and Horses while China has only Horses. Looks like an Archer rush of China to me!
Leave research on Code of Laws and set science slider to 80%, lux slider to 20%. Code of Laws due in 12 turns.
We won’t be needing any Gold for upgrading units!
Rechacking China and Greece, China and Greece have both Mysticism and Horseback Riding.
Decide to move some Warriors around, wake Warrior in Washington and move with Settler. Wake Warrior in Philly and move towards Washington. Lux slider to 30%. Science to 70%, Code of Laws in 14 turns.
MM New York for shields.

IBT
China complains about our Scouting Warrior who is thrown out of Chinese territory.
Greece complains about our Scouting Warrior and we apologize.
A Barb Horseman ransacks New York for 1 Gold.

Turn 70 – 1250 BC
Warrior and Settler pair move north and north.
Warrior moves into Washington and fortifies.
Scouting Warriors move to try to find a way home.

After Action Report.
We are without Horses or Iron, looks like we need to prepare for and Archer rush. China has Horses in Shanghai. Greece has both Horses and Iron, along with Hoppies.

China is up HBR, Myst and Philosophy while Greece is up HBR and Myst. We are 13 turns from Code of Laws.

There is a Barb Camp located 4 squares NW and 1 square N of New York. I had planed to use this settler to occupy the Jungle square to the NE, NE of the Barb Camp. However, this settler might best be used to settle closer to Shanghai, to help us get Horses.

We are 4 turns from Dyes and 6 or so from Gems.

I forgot to check MM and CivAssist tells me New York is about to riot.

 

[leif erikson]

Double post alert!

First, The Save

Here is a screenie of the northern territory.

I think we should consider making preparations to go after China soon!
If we use the next settler here:

We can keep the road open to China's horses.

China needs to get knocked back some. Our goal should be to take the Horses and all the cities south of Shanghai, that will leave China weakened and us with horses to prep for finishing them, off. This should also allow enough time for China to settle off island.

The other problem is acquiring Iron to make Knights to take Greece with. We may have to fight another limited war to take Athens and Corinth to get the Iron.

Interesting Map Gyathaar, could have at least given us somehting to fight with!

Much to think about, spam away!! I'm headed for

 

[Gyathaar]

Interesting Map Gyathaar, could have at least given us somehting to fight with!

Huh? What are you talking about? you can build fearsome warriors and archers!

 

[leif erikson]

Huh? What are you talking about? you can build fearsome warriors and archers!

Man, are you fast!!

Yes, we can build them alright. I question whether they will be considered fearsome however. If we don't do it soon, they will be laughed at!!

 

[leif erikson]

Roster:

Willow - UP
Capt. - On Deck
Nemesis
Gator
Bluebox
Leif - Just played

Looks like Willow's timing is just about perfect!

 

[bluebox]

Good turnset, Leif, especially the trading! Now we see much clearer what we'll be up to for the next centuries.

China has PHIL that Greece has not. China wants 11pgt + 1g = 221g for it. We can get +16g with 0% science. shouldn't we try to get Phil and trade it for maybe HBR with Greece!? PHIL is more expensive than HBR so it might work.

Your propsed city site "on the horsie road" might be a good idea, but we should remember that China starts to put cultural pressure on our holdings. Miami already has a flip risk.

 

[leif erikson]

China has PHIL that Greece has not. China wants 11pgt + 1g = 221g for it. We can get +16g with 0% science. shouldn't we try to get Phil and trade it for maybe HBR with Greece!? PHIL is more expensive than HBR so it might work.

Your propsed city site "on the horsie road" might be a good idea, but we should remember that China starts to put cultural pressure on our holdings. Miami already has a flip risk.

There is one sure way to relieve cultural pressure and that is to make the cities producing the pressure ours!

We have no use for HBR at the moment as we don't have any horses. We have 14 turns until Code of Laws, which is more expensive than Philosophy, during which time I suggest we prepare for war. Once the dyes and gems are hooked up, we can grow our cities and pump some Archers and a few Spears to escort them.

Should we decide on limited objectives (capturing the horsies), we then can sue for peace and get some tech and, hopefully, a city on another shore. But to get together 20 or so Archers at this point will require some time.

After China, build some horsies and go after Greek Iron?

Is everyone ready to kick some butt?

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Well done, leif

I agree wholeheartedly: it's time (no baggy pants, please though )

Man, are you fast!!

Yes, we can build them alright. I question whether they will be considered fearsome however. If we don't do it soon, they will be laughed at!!

I had to delete a few smilies cause you were hogging the 10-smily limit, leif
I've always wondered about that message from the foreign minister: "The greek fear our archer." Always makes me go "why?" at the screen

 

[leif erikson]

I had to delete a few smilies cause you were hogging the 10-smily limit, leif

Sorry Capt.
My son often stands behind me reading the thread. He chastizes me whenever I don't use all 10 smilies.

And I agree with the Greeks, it is going to be a tough campaign to get that iron we need to destroy them! Iron not only means Knights, it means MDI and Pikes as well!

If anyone has a smart idea for dealing with both the Chinese and Greeks, let's hear it!

 

[DJMGator13]

Nice trading.

We still haven't seen any signs of off island activity. We need to be careful about starting a war too early. Most of China's cities are size 1 so they will autoraze. So we want to take settlers with us as we build our army.

I've got a solution to the iron problem.

How about an iron colony, with a ROP so that we could use China's and Greece's roads. Build our military up then attack.

Second option is to try to sneak a settler to the tundra tile S S of the iron colony and build a harbor.

Either of these can be done after we weaken China. If our 2 scouting warriors are free we should go block off access to that section of the map. So, I agree it's time to start building an archer army.

 

[leif erikson]

I've got a solution to the iron problem.

How about an iron colony, with a ROP so that we could use China's and Greece's roads. Build our military up then attack.

So, I agree it's time to start building an archer army.

Interesting idea Gator!

We can look at this option after we weaken China and see what roads the Greeks have built. It actually might work out well as far as timing is concerned. Once we get horses, and HBR, we would be in a position to build horsies while we work on getting a worker up to establish a colony. That means we can sign an ROP with Greece and it should expire about the time we have a Horse Army ready to upgrade to Knights!

That should also give time for Greece and China to establish colonies off island and meet some other civs we can trade contacts and maps with. We wouldn't need to have the Iron that long if we've set aside the resources needed to build and upgrade. Having a supply of Gold, I think, will be key as it is 80 Gold each for a Knight from a Horseman, iirc.

If we can meet the rest of the civs, we could almost cease research and buy techs as they become known, until Chivalry is available I think. Playing Vanilla, we know the scientific civs will get Monotheism and they almost always go for Feudalism. Then we can evaluate and decide whether or not to research Chivalry. But I'm thinking way ahead atm. Looks like we need to focus on an Archer rush of China's southern holdings and building some settlers.