SGOTM8 - Xteam

[Capt Buttkick]

Nice dot map, leif.
We could get away with one less overlap by moving cities 2 and 6 one tile SE. Apart from that, I don't see much improvement

I think we need to make city #2 our military pump cause we've already had one visiting barb and I think our workers are too exposed.

Problem, as I see it, with relying too much on shutting off research is that we're paying the Chinese top dollar for Alpha. I could trade for it at once, but I'd really like to explore a little more and find Japan before making the trade. If we're going max at Writing, we're going to run a deficit for a long time so we might need the cash.

 

[leif erikson]

Nice dot map, leif.
We could get away with one less overlap by moving cities 2 and 6 one tile SE. Apart from that, I don't see much improvement

Yes, now that I look at it this morning I think you're right. I saw that Horsie across the bay and I couldn't resist getting as close to it as possible!

Problem, as I see it, with relying too much on shutting off research is that we're paying the Chinese top dollar for Alpha. I could trade for it at once, but I'd really like to explore a little more and find Japan before making the trade. If we're going max at Writing, we're going to run a deficit for a long time so we might need the cash.

I have no problem with looking for the Japanese; or anyone else for that matter. As imptortant as food is to growth, Gold is to trading. I'm trying to figure out how to obtain these techs as quickly as possible and at Emperor, self-research is not always the answer. At least that is what I have learned from Alan and Klarius. If you remember, I am usually the one who wants to research to the next tech as quickly as possible.

Think about this for a minute.
I assume you think Japan, or someone else, is fairly close by? What I'm thinking is we turn off research and start collecting Gold. Once we *can* obtain Alphabet, we need to look around and see if we think anyone is near, we have about 10 turns to do this. If we think it is China and us, then we buy Alphabet and start a 10% gambit on Writing, again collecting Gold. That will give us Writing before we would have had it using 2-40 turn gambits by about 10 turns, which is fine. We will also have a stash of gold to use to buy contacts and then we can see where we are for trade purposes. Map Making at Emperor should start showing up some time around the end of QSC period, so we should be positioned, hopefully, to make the best of it?

 

[TheNemesis666]

OK, i got it. Sorry for being so quiet the last couple of days. Had gf's birthday followed by my sisters, finally have an evening to myself. (don't tell them I said that)
I've grabbed the save, will look at it shortly but probably won't play till tomorrow night.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

OK, i got it. Sorry for being so quiet the last couple of days. Had gf's birthday followed by my sisters, finally have an evening to myself. (don't tell them I said that)
I've grabbed the save, will look at it shortly but probably won't play till tomorrow night.

We won't tell. All here knows how much it sux when RL interfers with playing civ.

Please ask any questions you may have looking at the save
I'm sorry I didn't give you a better handoff than I did. I really don't know what's wrong with my RNG luck when it comes to popping GHs
Then again, it's not just me on this team that have probs with the RNG
We could rewrite the classic Cream track (with Eric Clapton in the lineup): "If it wasn't for real bad RNG luck, I wouldn't have no RNG luck at all."

BTW: leif: your assessment of our tech situation looks good

 

[leif erikson]

OK, i got it. Sorry for being so quiet the last couple of days. Had gf's birthday followed by my sisters, finally have an evening to myself. (don't tell them I said that)
I've grabbed the save, will look at it shortly but probably won't play till tomorrow night.

Hi Nemesis,

Hope you enjoyed the Your secret is our, unless they read the thread?

As Gator has said, it is better to take a little time on this and play smart than to rush through it and wish we had done all sorts of things. Please have a look and ask if there is anything you are not sure of.

Good luck!

EDIT - I'll try to get an updated city plan map done this evening, after everyone has had a chance to have a look at the original.

 

[bluebox]

Great turnset, Capt!

A tech or two from gh's would have been nice. You've explored a big area and made our first contact. That will pay off far better in long run than CB in 3500BC.

Because Capt suspects the Chinese Empire to the east, the warrior in the north could explore west? maybe the coast that is visible there belongs to our island! I think Capt is right to expect the Japanese somewhere near under the fog. China would n't go for the wheel so early, would she?

 

[Capt Buttkick]

I know the Chinese are were I put them on my map. You can't see it b/c of the zoom and compression, but our warrior saw their border

I agree CB on it's own isn't worth much. But CB and a little gold and we'd have Alpha...

The Chinese must have met Japan on the turn they got it or else I suspect they'd rather trade for CB, or both techs if they could afford it, so possibly China has 2 contacts apart from us.

 

[bluebox]

The Chinese must have met Japan on the turn they got it or else I suspect they'd rather trade for CB, or both techs if they could afford it, so possibly China has 2 contacts apart from us.

Or did they pop it???

 

[TheNemesis666]

have we got a consensus on our research plan? minimum or max?
I too think minimum is the way to go. I am a little wary of it though as we don't know many so buying will be expensive till we get contacts abroad. On emperor I can normally get to philosophy before the ai but at a cost. I tend to have philosophy but am down several techs. (of course you can then trade for most of them but you have no money saved up to keep trading after)

 

[DJMGator13]

I just looked at the save and I'm leaning towards keeping sci at the max.

China will trade Alpha for 73gold and 5 gpt. They will not accept 4gpt. So they have it valued between 153 and 173 gold. At +4gpt (keeping the lux at 10%) it will take us 20 turns to raise enough gold to hit the 153 mark. We can research it in 18 turns at -1gpt.

We also know that China has met another civ because as the Capt pointed out their gold is at zero. So I'd focus on find that other civ.

We could switch our granary build to a settler in 2 turns and then let the granary build as the pop grows again. The second city could help our research rate also.

 

[leif erikson]

Do you think we can find this other civ in 10 turns. If we can, max research would be wasted because the price of Alphabet would go down considerably, wouldn't it?

I agree on the early settler, then a Granary. We should settle to the north and get that building workers and eventually a settler or two.

 

[DJMGator13]

Do you think we can find this other civ in 10 turns. If we can, max research would be wasted because the price of Alphabet would go down considerably, wouldn't it?

They have to be close enough to China that they had already met them by turn 9. Not sure that finding the other civ will bring down the selling price of Alpha. Isn't this one of those techs where the AI puts a premuim on it, similair to a government tech?

I agree on the early settler, then a Granary. We should settle to the north and get that building workers and eventually a settler or two.

Popping the settler will allow us to lower the lux rate but it will also reduce our gpt and science. But I'd like to have the other city ASAP.

 

[leif erikson]

They have to be close enough to China that they had already met them by turn 9. Not sure that finding the other civ will bring down the selling price of Alpha. Isn't this one of those techs where the AI puts a premuim on it, similair to a government tech?

I'm not sure about this but I think it is interesting that CivAssistII values it at 115 while your trade test values it so much higher. The only worry I have is spending the Gold to research and then finding ourselves short for trade time. There is no doubt we need it ASAP, so I guess researching it is the fastest route.

Popping the settler will allow us to lower the lux rate but it will also reduce our gpt and science. But I'd like to have the other city ASAP.

The loss will be temporary as it will improve with more cities, and pop, contributing. Perhaps we should build another warrior before the Granary to head out after those Barbs that keep harrassing our workers, unless the chop times out during the warrior build and gets wasted doing that...

 

[TheNemesis666]

I don't think we can rely on meeting china's neighbour soonish, we don't know which direction they met them from and if it was a unit on another shore we may not see them there again for a while. (and like blue box said, they may have grabbed the tech from a GH.)

 

[DJMGator13]

(and like blue box said, they may have grabbed the tech from a GH.)

But where did their 10 gold go? That usually means they traded it away and they didn't give it to us.

I'm off to bed, so good luck Nemesis. I'll check in tomorrow after work.

 

[leif erikson]

But where did their 10 gold go? That usually means they traded it away and they didn't give it to us.

When we met China, they were up Warrior Code (they start with it), Bronze Working and Alphabet, on turn 9? I think they got the Capt's RNG luck. Then they prolly traded some of that luck for The Wheel, and their 10 Gold went with it.

China is to the east so I suggest you check to the west. It is supposed to be archipeligo, so the islands can't be too big, can they?

I think it is a toss up at this point; to research or to store up some Gold. The safe bet is to research, imho. It will be interesting to see which way you go.

I'll check in in a few minutes in case you want to throw any ideas back and forth before I head for bed.

 

[TheNemesis666]

ah, the 10 gold, fair enough, i'd missed that.

 

[leif erikson]

Good luck Nemesis!!

 

[Capt Buttkick]

China didn't have the Wheel when I met them. They had lost their 10 gold by then, though.

The chop will complete next turn so we'll be wasting shields if we switch to settler.

 

[TheNemesis666]

preturn
looks good, decided to keep alpha at max and leave the build as granary so we don't waste our chop


turn 20 - 2950BC
eqworker clear forest, w
worker begins road on BG
scout n to mt
c.warrior n, spots green border north of him


turn 21 - 2900BC
scout ne
c.warrior nw (green border is expanded so probably cap)
eqworker to forrest s of washington (heading for BG)


turn 22 - 2850BC
c.warrior e
scout ne
eqworker w
worker completes road, starts mine on BG
greece have appeared on F4

trade the wheel+52g to greece for Alphabet+Bronze working
(normally i would have waited the 13t remaining on alpha and grabbed bw+wc for wheel+48g, or run the risk of waiting for a 2fer, but i decided that writing as soon as was the plan)
comments on above, please.

sci10%, lux10%, +4gpt, 18g, Writing 40t


turn 23 - 2800BC
washington grows to pop4
sci10%, lux30%, +3gpt, 22g, writing 39t

c.warrior e (discovers second horse for china)
eqworker begins road on BG
scout ne


IBT
Greece discover iron working


turn 24 - 2750BC
c.warrior n, spots chinese warrior and settler heading(guess) ne


IBT
chinese settler pair moves south


turn 25 - 2710BC
c.warrior n (spots greek worker ne)
scout ne
eqworker finishes road and starts mine on BG
worker finishes mine on BG, nw


IBT
chinese settler pair s
greek worker completes road, e


turn 26 - 2670BC
washington granary->settler
scout e, n (discoveres 2 more dyes)
c.warrior ne to newly roaded tile in no mans land


IBT
greek worker begins road


turn 27 - 2630BC
c.warrior n
scout n
worker nw, n


turn 28 - 2590BC
eqworker completes mine on BG, n
worker begins road on FP
scout w
c.warrior n


IBT
greece discover CB


turn 29 - 2550BC
eqworker ne
scout n, nw
c.warrior n (spots northern shore)




China is up Warrior Code
Greece is Warrior Code, Iron Working and Ceremonial Burial


Firaxis 95
Jason 61



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