SGOTM8 - Xteam

[leif erikson]

Sorry Willow, had to remove your smilies to make room for mine!

Has Nemesis been around? Probably Gator should be ready to claim the game as soon as 24 hours is up.

I fear I have still not heard from him so I don't know anything more. If Nemesis has not checked in by Monday Noon, I am planning to declare a skip and ask Gator to step up.

So what's the next strategy? Foothold in England, right? How soon to we want to declare on either the Vikings or England? It could take a while before they'll give us peace and a town. And which one do we do we declare on?

As for England itself, I agree it looks like a good target. The only iron is in the south and may not even be connected. Problem is there are no size-1 towns on that island of any civ except, of all possibilities, Rome.

I have been thinking about this and so will write another diatribe.

It looks as though Japan is going to be a toothless tiger. They must have Iron for Samurai but have not hooked it up yet, neither have they claimed it with a city. If we can get there first, they're goose will be cooked.

Now that we have secured our island, I am thinking we need a bold stroke. I think we should start out gifting Tatung and Hangchow to the Vikings, declare and take them back. Then gift them to England, declare and take them back and finally to Japan and take them back. In 8 to 12 turns, we should have the opporuntiy for peace with all three and, hopefully, towns in the deal. The only problem will be when we take a city, it loses 1 pop point, so we may need to have some workers ready to join, slaves or ours doesn't matter to me as there are advantages and disadvantages to each.

Also, the Republic we are in does not provide unit support by cities and towns, we pay 1 Gold for each unit. We should go over our builds and stop producing any military, only workers and settlers until the wilderness portions of our empire has been ICS'ed. I think we should also have a good look at the military and cull out what we don't need to cut down the maintenance, we are currently paying 54 GPT, iirc.

I did some checking on cash rushing Horses. If we try to rush one from zero shields in the box, it costs 8 Gold per shield. If we try to rush it with from 1 to about 8 or 10 , I think, it is 4 Gold per shield. So a Horseman with 1 shield will cost us 116 Gold versus 240 Gold with zero shields in the box. I suggest we try to pump out 1 Horse every other turn in each city on another continent. To make 30 Horses, we'll need nearly 3500 Gold, and it'll get much more expensive with Knights.

To do three continents, we're looking at a minimum of 15,000 Gold, with replacements and this doesn't count upgrades to Knights, which, iirc, is 80 Gold per upgrade?

What I have not yet done is figure out how long it will take us to maximize the gold output of our civ. I think we need to focus on Marketplaces and Courthouses and get the gold up as fast as we can. I would change the Barracks builds in the north, save perhaps Detroit, and get gold producing buildings going. Our window of opportunity will not last long. My wish would be Japan first, England second and Vikings third as they are the most backward. However, realistically, I think it'll be England, perhaps Japan and Vikings. BTW - England has Incense and Wool for lux's we need.

We don't have a lot of turn to do this so we need to figure out how to get efficient and translate that into units on other islands. Right now, with no Research or Lux, we can make 169 GPT. Cut our lilitary in half and that increases to 195 GPT and some Markets, etc, and we'll be better off, but we still need tons of Gold. Are there any Banks to rob?

Well, let's see what everyone thinks.

I must also comment one more time on the location of our FP. Detroit? Of all US city names, Detroit is not the place for a palace of any sort. I move that we rename the city to something more appropriate. Unfortunately, I have no brilliant ideas at the moment. But I'm certainly open to suggestions.

How about Honolulu?

EDIT - Crossed with Gator, sorry I was so busy typing, I missed you!

 

[WillowBrook]

I endorse the gifting/taking strategy! Since, IIRC, we have a lux deal with the Japanese, we should probably hold off on them until that deal expires - even if they are tooth-less tigers and since England has luxes.

As for the rename-Detroit-campaign, what about some place known for spy, corruption, law-enforcement, or bureaucracy-related reasons? Washington, the obvious choice, is, of course, already claimed.

 

[leif erikson]

As for the rename-Detroit-campaign, what about some place known for spy, corruption, law-enforcement, or bureaucracy-related reasons? Washington, the obvious choice, is, of course, already claimed.

Langely is the home of the CIA. Ft. Huachuca is the home of the Army intelligence guys, that's near Tucson, AZ. Chicago is known for its gangs and political corruption, from years gone by we hope. And then there is Las Vegas.

 

[DJMGator13]

Hopefully we don't have to buy all our military. If we go after Japan now we need to hope for a leader to start a third core there. This could force us to abandon our current FP city because we will not have enough cities in the area to do a palace jump.

BTW, didn't Japan build the Library? I still haven't looked at the save yet, maybe I should do that now.

 

[DJMGator13]

OK, I finally looked at the save. I think we should target Japan next and pray for a great leader. If we can capture the Library we may want to gift it away and use it as a fall back tactic if we get too far behind in techs. Also a FP core in Japan would allow us to build troops to go after Rome with instead of having to buy them all. A big problem could be getting a Japanese city on their mainland through a peace deal.

 

[leif erikson]

I didn't know you could move a FP. I thought once you built it, that is where it stayed and if the city is destroyed or abandoned, you live without the FP. Can it be rebuilt?

And yes, the Great Library is in Kyoto.

Which brings me to another question, are we going to count on pointy stick resaearch or should we build any libraries?

EDIT - It would be nice to have Military Tradition?

EDIT2 - If the Japanese cities keep getting bigger, do you think it would help to gift them 3 or 4 cities and then immediately take them back? I suppose I should go and test the theory, but I'm a little short of time atm. :shakehead

 

[leif erikson]

Here is a proposed spoiler. I went into the spoiler thread just to read Alan's first post and he asked a series of questions. I decided to answer the quetions, more or less, instead of writing a story format as we usually do. I guess I'm not as creative as you guys.

Proposal follows:

The X Team met at the appointed place and scratched their heads in amazement. Can it be? We’re on an island with no boats? How can any island have no boats? So, the question is, how do we get off an island with no boats when none of us can swim a stroke? Whatever are we to do?

Initial Moves.
After 3 pages of posts, we decided to move the settler 1-tile south and found Washington there. With The Captain at the helm (but with no ship?), The Wheel was our first research objective at max as Washington started a Scout. Our Scout went 2-tiles west to the mountain and then 2-tiles north to the flood plains, looking for some wheat. We discovered 2 early GH’s and got a Warrior and 25 Gold. Once we got that Warrior, we changed the build in Washington to Warrior for MP and Barb Security. We built an early worker to help get Washington up and running as a 4-turn factory, then Granary.

Summary Timeline.
3500 BC - Meet China.
3100 BC – China discovers The Wheel.
3050 BC – We discover The Wheel and start Alphabet.
2850 BC – Meet Greece. Trade for Alphabet and Bronze Working.
2750 BC – Greece discovers Iron Working.
2670 BC – Washington completes Granary.
1725 BC – Trade for Writing. Start Literature.
1275 BC – Discover Literature. Trade it for Map Making, Iron Working, Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code, plus the World maps of China and Greece. Start Code of laws at 80%.
1175 BC – Dyes connected.
1100 BC – Gem colony founded.
1000 BC – China discovers Code of Laws, 1-turn before us.
975 BC – Discover Code of Laws. Trade Code of Laws for Philosophy and Mysticism, start Republic at 80%.
825 BC – Make contact with Japan, England and Rome and obtain their World Maps. Trade for Mathematics and Horseback Riding.
Declare our first war with Greece, Rome and England, allying China against Greece.
750 BC – Trade for Horses from China.
690 BC – Japan declares on us.
650 BC – China declares on us, is this AWE?
510 BC – Learn Republic. Trade for Construction.
290 BC – Discover Currency. Trade for Polytheism and peace across the land. Enter the Middle Ages.

Alan’s Questions.
Which Civs were strongest and how will you deal with them?
Rome was the strongest civ in our game. It was followed by Japan. China and Greece were next and the weakest seem to be England and then, by a lot, is the Vikings. We decided we need to secure our island first and then try to find a way off to get to the others. This is ongoing.

How did you balance research vs. growth vs. military production during this phase?
First priority was getting a 4-turn factory running. We built a warrior for security and MP and then an early worker before a Granary. Then we filled out our initial core at ring distance 4.x. We did send a Settler north for dyes to cut off China’s expansion south and set ourselves up for our first war.
We researched at full speed but were beaten to nearly every tech we went after except Literature and Republic. We traded our way through most of the age but also used pointy stick later in the age.

What impact did the barbs or disease have on your progress?
Very little. The barbs mostly came from the eastern mountains and kept us from the gems. But that was solved fairly early and the Chinese seemed to take care of most of the barbs north of us.
We suffered no effect from disease.

How did the distribution of horses and iron affect your planning?
We had targeted The Wheel and Iron Working early to find resources. We didn’t get Warrior Code until 1275 BC. So, we got a late start on Archers. Once we knew we would have to fight to attain resources, we planned a line of cities to the north to target one of China’s horse resources. In the end, we allied with China against Greece and traded for horses and then took China out, followed by Greece.

How do you plan to visit offshore friends?
We’ll let you know how it works out in the next spoiler?

What was your research approach?
Discussed above.

Early plans to win the game?
I think we’ll save this for another spoiler as well. We’ll see how it all works out.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Good spoiler, leif. Although it's not spoiling very much

 

[WillowBrook]

Spoiler looks good.

As for getting Japan to get to Rome by land, I like the idea. We should still continue to build up our FP core on the home island, since we'll need that for income for a long time - I wouldn't forsee jumping something until a number of good-sized towns are waiting.

Could someone check what happens when the FP town is abandoned?

As for techs, I'm not concerned about keeping up. Once we have chivalry we can wait to acquire the MA techs until we can beat them out of our opponents. Although knowing the location of saltpeter could be beneficial.

 

[leif erikson]

Good spoiler, leif. Although it's not spoiling very much

I was reluctant to put the 150 BC piccie up as it shows us with one city on the Japanese island. But I figured it might scare them a little to think we are off our island in the BC's.

EDIT - I have a few minutes, perhaps I have a save on which I can check out this FP stuff.

 

[leif erikson]

Could someone check what happens when the FP town is abandoned?

I didn't have a Vanilla save so I used PTW. I abandoned the city the FP was built in and pressed the space bar to advance one turn and sure enough it was a build option again.

So it seems the FP is capable of being jumped but the city containing it must be abandoned or captured by the enemy. I wonder if it can be gifted?

EDIT - Will try to find a save to expeiment with tonight.

 

[bluebox]

Great writr-up, Leif! Let's post it so we can read the spoilers!

 

[leif erikson]

Sorry Nemesis, don't know where you are, so I must declare a skip. Hope you are well.

Roster change:
Gator - UP
Bluebox - On Deck
Leif
Willow
Capt.
Nemesis - Skipped

Once Gator has a look at the spoiler, I'll post it so you can all go and have a look. Should be this evening, well, my evening, sometime.

 

[DJMGator13]

I have a dilemma. We finished the budget and year-end reports today and I only had to work 8 hours. On top of that I did not have to work this past weekend. Now I can finally start playing a lot more Civ.

Spoiler looks good and thanks for checking out the FP situation. I’ve never abandoned my FP city before.

I’ll probably play tomorrow night or afternoon, if I start using some of the 100+ hours of comp time I’ve banked at work.

 

[leif erikson]

I’ll probably play tomorrow night or afternoon, if I start using some of the 100+ hours of comp time I’ve banked at work.

Ah, a little civ time!!

Can you work up some budgetary magic and get us about 20,000 Gold? We could easily win then!!

 

[leif erikson]

OK, Spoiler is posted. Have a good time reading. I have to go to a meeting. :shakehead

But I still like double posts!

 

[bluebox]

OK, Spoiler is posted. Have a good time reading. I have to go to a meeting. :shakehead

But I still like double posts!

I like your creative use of smilies.

 

[leif erikson]

I like your creative use of smilies.

I learned from a master, Zamint3.

Now, if I could only be so creative in the game!?!?

 

[zamint3]

I learned from a master, Zamint3.

I'm flattered , but there's no way I can find time to play atm, so save it!

 

[leif erikson]

I'm flattered , but there's no way I can find time to play atm, so save it!

Nice to see you are checking in us.

What do you think of direction?