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[Stegyre]

By the way, Stegyre, Tenna on Queen Alice is me. I'm flattered by your praise, but I really don't think I deserve it. I'll write something about our game later today, probably.

Pleased to meet you.
Just to provide a little background, I signed on at QA because I saw Narz had recommended it, so as he was one of the few I knew who would be on the site, I thought I'd check out some of his games. The first things I noticed were (a) Narz has a high rating (compared to anything that's ever been attached to me) and (b) a series of games between Narz and Tenna . . . that Narz-of-the-high-score did not necessarily win. Thus, when I saw that I'd been challenged by Tenna, my thought was, "Oh crap! I am so gonna get owned." At the end of it, I was just glad I hadn't made a complete fool of myself.

 

[Tomoyo]

If you continue playing at chess sites, you'll eventually find that the ratings on those sites are typically higher than the FIDE ratings. On Queen Alice, in particular, it's because losing or drawing with a player with a provisional rating never lowers an established player's rating (which is why ratings tend to go up as you spend more time there).

 

[Stegyre]

If you continue playing at chess sites, you'll eventually find that the ratings on those sites are typically higher than the FIDE ratings. On Queen Alice, in particular, it's because losing or drawing with a player with a provisional rating never lowers an established player's rating (which is why ratings tend to go up as you spend more time there).

I'd have no clue what my FIDE rating would be. I do find the ratings useful for comparison within a site: 1800 QA/Yahoo! players are better than 1300 QA/Yahoo! players.

At Yahoo!, I've levelled out at the 1300-1400 range, and I expect I'll do the same at QA. That's the level I consider competent with chess basics, capable of making major mistakes (Aren't we all? I think I saw a Narz-Tenna game where one of you lost a queen for nothing - and quickly resigned) but most of the mistakes are subtle.

On the other hand, this class does NOT know the details of various opening lines: you'd never see one of us (someone of my rank) making a quote like Bluemofia's about "I believe this line usually develops 8. xxx xxx, etc." That's just beyond us: we may stumble down those paths as we unwittingly re-discover them (they are, after all, good paths), but not because we knew, in advance, they were there.

(A thanks to Bluemofia for such comments, by the way. I post here for such insights. )

EDIT: BTW, I'm still looking forward to your analysis of our game.

 

[Tomoyo]

At Yahoo!, I've levelled out at the 1300-1400 range, and I expect I'll do the same at QA. That's the level I consider competent with chess basics, capable of making major mistakes (Aren't we all? I think I saw a Narz-Tenna game where one of you lost his/her queen for nothing - and quickly resigned) but most of the mistakes are subtle.

About the Yahoo thing, when I played on Yahoo, I leveled out at about 1400. It's a different system (and different type of game, it seems).

On the other hand, this class does NOT know the details of various opening lines: you'd never see one of us (someone of my rank) making a quote like Bluemofia's about "I believe this line usually develops 8. xxx xxx, etc." That's just beyond us: we may stumble down those paths as we unwittingly re-discover them (they are, after all, good paths), but not because we knew, in advance, they were there.

That's odd - whenever I play Bluemofia I try to get into some sharp opening where preparation is necessary because he doesn't memorize lines, and he's a better middle game player than me.

EDIT: BTW, I'm still looking forward to your analysis of our game.

It's on the previous page.

 

[Stegyre]

It's on the previous page.

Color me embarrassed! I saw all that and, not looking at all closely, assumed you were talking about some game you had done. (Well, you were, but I mean some other game!)

Thanks for pointing out the obvious!

(Now, let me go take a good look.)

 

[Stegyre]

8. O-O Nxc3

Upon hindsight, Bxc3 was probably better. This move put me in a very passive situation where I kinda had to hide behind everything and try to trade off pieces to reach the endgame.

Yeah! Get with the program: that's what you were supposed to do, although somehow I suspect you were going to stray from the primrose path at some point.

9. Qe1+

I think a better square for the queen would be b3.

You and Bluemofia, both. I'm still dense: not seeing the big advantage of Qb3, as if I were on the other side, my response would simply be 0-0. I wouldn't like that spear pointed at my king, but I'd figure you'll have to move the queen eventually and/or I can get other defenders to cover f7. Doubtless, this is part of the reason you folks enjoy a 400 pt advantage over me.

14. Bb5+

This allows me to get my bishop off the back rank with tempo and doesn’t really accomplish much.

Yeah. This was one I saw, myself. What was I thinking?

19. Rxe6

19. dxe6 is an option, too, but after 20. c5, the pawn would have a possible two defenders versus three attackers.

I grok that. I considered it for the virtue of having a pawn yet one more step closer to the final rank. It seemed to me, that was my big advantage: you were pinned down to three ranks, while I could roam the rest of the board; and maybe if we just liquidated pieces, I'd win the pawn race with one or another of my advance scouts.

I don’t know if the endgame was supposed to be drawn or won, but it looked like there wasn’t much that could have been different there.

Draw. Considering the skill difference, I would have counted a draw a significant victory, and I could see no hope of an outright win. I couldn't bring superior force to bear anywhere.

 

[Tomoyo]

Yeah! Get with the program: that's what you were supposed to do, although somehow I suspect you were going to stray from the primrose path at some point.

My opponents never do what they're supposed to do either. Except when they do, they end up knowing the line better than me.

You and Bluemofia, both. I'm still dense: not seeing the big advantage of Qb3, as if I were on the other side, my response would simply be 0-0. I wouldn't like that spear pointed at my king, but I'd figure you'll have to move the queen eventually and/or I can get other defenders to cover f7. Doubtless, this is part of the reason you folks enjoy a 400 pt advantage over me.

You take the knight first. After 9. bxc3 Bxc3 10. Qb3, a move that Blue Emu (not Bluemofia) recommended, 0-0 would just leave you down a piece. Taking the rook would lead to a vicious attack on your (my) king. 9. ... Be7 would be safer for Black, but still allows white a chance to attack.

 

[Panzar75]

In the latest game, what is the purpose of 7. Nc3? Is this theory? Looks like it just loses a pawn to me...

After 8. 0-0, perhaps 8... Bxc3 9. bxc3 d5 that setup always annoy me in the (1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6) opening.

9.bxc5 looks interesting... if 9... Bxc3 then 10. Bxf7+ and Qb3+ or Bg5 could follow maybe.

14. Bb5+ is probably a mistake... why not double Rooks on the e-file? Say, 14. Re2 Kd7 15. Bd3 g6 16. Rae1 and if 16... Re8 17. Ng5 and things look bleak for black. So maybe 16... Bf8 and white can play Ng5, Bb2 and c4 in some good order and black has, as far as I can tell, a position full of holes and no King saftey. I'd pick white in that position, for sure.

Last chance to mix things up might be 18. Rac1. 18...Rc8 is impossible due to 19. Bxd6 so 18... Kd7 19. Rxd7+ Kxe7 20. Rxc7+ Ke8 21. Bxd6 and while materially down a tad, white has all of his pieces and a pawn in attack while black's Rooks look a bit inactive at the moment.

 

[col]

My opponents never do what they're supposed to do either. Except when they do, they end up knowing the line better than me. .

Its an interesting strategic decision, isnt it?

Do i play down a heavily analysed line and hope that i know it better than my opponent - or my opening book is more recent? Obvious risk is that you can get caught in some new improvement your oppo knows and you dont. You can lose to a weaker player that way.

Do i play an off the wall opening and rely on my superior skills to win? Risk is that that usually involves playing an inferior opening.

Generally I'm happy to play down very theoretical lines. i figure that if i lose I'll know better next time - and if I've played a lot of games in a particular variation then I generally know it better than my oppo.

I've played a series of games in the same opening (Sicilian Dragon) as black and white with one oppo. It really gave me a feel for the opening.

I once played Jonathan Mestel (English GM) in this line as black and white a few months apart and got absolutely crunched both times!

 

[Panzar75]

This is one of my games from my most recent tournament. Vainly enough, I chose one where I won even if it's also the most interesting one.

I had white and was rated 1575 against a 1272 rated player. (Though his rating seemed absurdly low compared to his play.) Time control is 2 hours for 40 moves and then 30 minutes for the rest of the moves.

1. e4 e6 2. d3 d6 3. Nf3 Be7 4. g3 Bd7 5. Bg2 c6 6. 0-0 h5 7. e5 d5 8. h4 c5 9. c3 Nc6 10. d4 Qb6 11. a3 a5 12. Re1 c4

I was happy to see c4, usually not a good move.

13. Qc2 Nh6 14. Ng5 Nf5 15. Bf4 g6

Here I started to see ghosts. I thought about him playing Nxd4 cxd4 Nxd4 and how then is my Queen to keep guarding b2 in wiev of a possible fork on b3.. He might get 3 pawns for the piece and 2 very important center pawns at that.

What I completely missed is that I get access to the square c3 for my Queen after the captures. So I retreated with my Knight.

16. Nf3 0-0-0 17. Nbd2 Rdg8 18. Rab1 Nd8

Now I wanted to play b3 but what about my a-pawn? I was concerned that maybe him playing a4 would make it very hard to get b3 in, so I played;

19. a4 Nc6

Looking at it now, I can't really remember why I didn't think I could play b3... it seems pretty logical. Anyway, for some reason I played;

20. Ra1 Qd8 21. b3 g5 22. Nxg5 Bxg5 23. Bxg5

I wasn't sure what he was up to... the Rook sacriface can't be any good, can it?

23... Rxg5 24. hxg5 Qxg5

With access to computer evaluations you might feel quite comfortable. During the game you're not as sure. I was reasonably sure my position was better but not how much.

25. Nf3 Qg7 26. bxc4 h4 27. Nxh4 Rxh4

The sacrifices keep comming. Will he run out of steam anytime soon?

28. gxh4 Nxh4 29. f4 dxc4 30 Qf2 Nf5

I couldn't quite see how to proceed here.

31. Kf1 Ng3+ 32. Kg1 Ne7

Oh great, another Knight comming in... it felt dangerous enough that I decided to give one exchange back. I didn't see what else to do at the time.

33. Re3 Nef5 34. Rxg3 Nxg3 35. Rb1 Ne4 36. Qe3 Bc6 37. Rb2

g2 needed some added protection.

37... Bd5 38. Kf1 Ng3+ 39. Ke1 Nf5

Finally the annoying pin is broken. Here I decided between Qh3 and Qf2. Eventually I decided on Qf2 because it protects the g1 square after the Bishop moves somewhere.

40. Qf2 Ne7 41. Bf1 Qf8 42. Rb5 Nc6 43. Qb2 Qe7 44. Rc5 Qh4+ 45. Qf2 Qh7

Now he's threatening to intrude on b1... fortunately I found;

46. f5 b6 47. Rb5 Kc7 48. fxe6 Bxe6 49. Bg2

The clock has been ticking and I have about 15 minutes left while my opponent has an hour. I felt my position was pretty good but then he found another shocker (for me at least);

49... Nb4

For a 1200-player he's putting up plenty of resistance. If cxb4 as far as I could determine, I cannot escape perpetual check.

50. Qf3 Qb1+ 51. Kf2 Qc2+ 52. Kg1 Qc1+ 53. Kh2 Qh6+ 54. Kg1 Qc1+ 55. Kh2 Qh6+

I had very little time left on my clock and this was the second round for the day. It was late and I was tired. Bh3 looked a little risky perhaps... I decided to settle for the draw;

56. Kg1

Now, Qc1+ would be a draw by 3-fold repetition. I'm up material, his Knight is hanging, I expected him to play it rather quickly. Instead he pulled out another shocker;

56... Bd5

After the game he told me he was playing to win, not sure exactly how he thought he was better here... It's possible he was also playing on my clock as I had maybe 4 minutes left. Having mentally decided the game was a draw, I now had to get back into the fight and try to win again.

57. Rxd5 Nxd5 58. Qxf7+ Kb8 59. Qxd5 Qe3+ 60. Kh2 Qh6+

Here I had made the plan to run my King all the way to b5 where his checks would run out. That is why I didn't invest 10-15 seconds on every move to see if I had a way to get out of the checks immediately. With 3 minutes or so, I was in blitz mode.

61. Kg3 Qg5+ 62. Kh3 Qh5+ 63. Kg3 Qg5+ 64. Kf2 Qd2+ 65. Kf3 Qxc3+ 66. Kf4 Qd2+ 67. Kf5 Qd3+ 68. Be4 Qh3+ 69. Kf6 Qh4+ 70. Ke6 Qh6+ 71. Kd7 Qg7+ 72. Kd6 Qf8+ 73. Kc6 Qc8+ 74. Kb5

And at long last I reached my goal... no more meaningful checks.

75... Qe8+ 76. Qc6 Qxc6+ 77. Kxc6 c3

I had less than 2 minutes left while he had over 30 minutes. Despite that, he failed to write his moves down and we weren't able to reconstruct the exact moves after this position but it's a trivial win and I won the game with about 30 seconds left on the clock.

In the end, after 4 days of playing, I ended up with a very disappointing 3 points out of 7 rounds which gave me place 36-45 out of 60. (With 11 players with over 2000 in rating winning was out of the question, but another 2 points could have been possible.)

 

[Blue Emu]

In the latest game, what is the purpose of 7. Nc3? Is this theory? Looks like it just loses a pawn to me...

After 8. 0-0, perhaps 8... Bxc3 9. bxc3 d5 that setup always annoy me in the (1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6) opening.

The move 7. Nc3 is indeed "book" in the Greco variation... the main alternative is 7. Bd2 instead. Both moves lead to fairly balanced positions with few winning chances for either side.

After 8. O-O, Bxc3; the usual reply is 9. d5 (the Moeller Attack)... which again leads to a roughly equal position. There just isn't enough complexity in Guioco positions for White to hope for much advantage... not unless Black makes some sort of early error.

 

[Tomoyo]

Its an interesting strategic decision, isnt it?

Do i play down a heavily analysed line and hope that i know it better than my opponent - or my opening book is more recent? Obvious risk is that you can get caught in some new improvement your oppo knows and you dont. You can lose to a weaker player that way.

Do i play an off the wall opening and rely on my superior skills to win? Risk is that that usually involves playing an inferior opening.

Generally I'm happy to play down very theoretical lines. i figure that if i lose I'll know better next time - and if I've played a lot of games in a particular variation then I generally know it better than my oppo.

I've played a series of games in the same opening (Sicilian Dragon) as black and white with one oppo. It really gave me a feel for the opening.

I once played Jonathan Mestel (English GM) in this line as black and white a few months apart and got absolutely crunched both times!

I knew you knew the opening really well, which was why, when I posted our game in the tourney thread there were "?!"s after half of White's moves.

Recently, I've found that I've been "gameplanning" certain opponents. For example, at the chess club at my school, there's this kid who always meets the Sicilian with 2. f4. After some research, I beat him today with 2. ... d5.

I think that it's always an advantage to know a good number of different openings fairly well, so that in a rematch game, you can always plan for what your opponent usually plays.

Side note, I lost to a seven-year-old kid today.

 

[col]

For me the main thing in an opening repertoire is being able to bring about positions that I feel comfortable in. I do have a look through oppo's games to see their choice of openings and try to decide in advance my opening strategy.

Did you play the Tal pawn gambit? I usually play 2Nc3 then 3f4 to avoid that line if I want to play the Grand Prix Attack.

 

[Tomoyo]

Yeah, I played the Tal gambit. My opponent responded with 3. Nc3, so I played 3. ... d4. I think the main line of the Tal gambit is 3. exd5 Nf6, though, right?

 

[Stegyre]

a move that Blue Emu (not Bluemofia) recommended . . . .

Oops!

14. Bb5+ is probably a mistake... why not double Rooks on the e-file? Say, 14. Re2 Kd7 15. Bd3 g6 16. Rae1 and if 16... Re8 17. Ng5 and things look bleak for black. So maybe 16... Bf8 and white can play Ng5, Bb2 and c4 in some good order and black has, as far as I can tell, a position full of holes and no King saftey. I'd pick white in that position, for sure.

Last chance to mix things up might be 18. Rac1. 18...Rc8 is impossible due to 19. Bxd6 so 18... Kd7 19. Rxd7+ Kxe7 20. Rxc7+ Ke8 21. Bxd6 and while materially down a tad, white has all of his pieces and a pawn in attack while black's Rooks look a bit inactive at the moment.

Wow! You make me think I should have won that hands-down. I have got to learn to start spotting these moves. Thanks, all (including *ahem* Blue Emu), for the analysis.

About the Yahoo thing, when I played on Yahoo, I leveled out at about 1400. It's a different system (and different type of game, it seems).

Adding a few more games at QA, I'm starting to see that: scores don't seem to drop, even when it seems they really should have. (Sorry, I don't usually post victories - there is less to learn from them - but this was just a grotesque slaughter against someone who, judging by the rating, really should have known better, especially after I didn't jump for the poisoned rook early on.)

 

[Richard Cribb]

I just had a small look at one of the games in this thread, the one between Stegyre and Tomoyo, and decided to post some small notes concerning it. But please keep in mind that this is only the result of a 25-minutes analysis early in the morning after only one cup of coffee, so there might be a few errors...

Stegyre - Tomoyo

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Nc3 Nxe4 8.0-0 Nxc3?! [ Risky. Black's safest course is 8...Bxc3 9.d5 (9.bxc3 d5!) Bf6 which to my knowledge doesn't give White much. The whole line with 5.d4 is quite harmless. ] 9.Qe1+?! [As already pointed out by others, 9.bxc3 Bxc3 10.Ba3! gives White good attacking chances.] Qe7 10.bxc3 Qxe1 11.bxc3 Be7 [ So Black has won a pawn. White may have some compensation, but I doubt that it is enough.] 12.d5 [ Bg5!?] Nd8? [12...Nb8 was necessary. Black is completely missing the danger he is in. ] 13.Ba3!? [A good move, but 13.Nd4 might be even more embarrasing, since White threatens both 14.Nb5 and 14.Nf5. I can't really see how Black can guard satisfactorily against both threats. Had he instead gone 12...Nb8, he could now just played 13...d6, since he could meet 14.Nb5 with 14...Na6.] d6 14.Bb5+?! [But this is wrong. White shouldn't help Black with disentangling himself, but rather keep the pieces on the board for attacking purposes. 14.Nd4 followed by doubling rooks in the e-file still seems to give White a clear, probably winning advantage.] Bd7 15.c4?! [15.Nd4 with advantage to White, for instance 15...Bxb5 16.Nxb5 Kd7 (16...Rc8 17.Bxd6!) 17.Nxc7! Rc8 18.Nb5 a6 19.Nd4 Rxc3 20.Bb2 Rc7 21.Nf5 Bf6 22.Bxf6 gxf6 23.Re7+] Bxb5 16.cxb5 f6?! [16...Kd7 is good enough] 17.Nd4! [Finally!] g6 18.Ne6? [I don't understand this. The knight on d8 is useless, why exchange it for your splendidly centralized one? Simply doubling on the e-file is good for White.] Nxe6 19.Rxe6 Kf7?! [ 19...Kd7 is better, since the c-pawn needs protection.] 20.Rc1 [20.Rae1!?] Rac8 21.Bb2 Rhe8 22.Bd4 a6? [The akward-looking 22...Bd8 holds.For instance 22.Rce1 (22.Rxe8 Kxe8 23.Bxa7?? b6) Rxe6 23.Rxe6 (23.dxe6+ Ke7 followed by c5) Rxe6 23.Rxe6 c5! and Black liberates his position and can look forward to a won endgame) 23.a4? [And again White retiurns the compliment. the simple 23.bxa6 bxa6 24.Rc6 gives a clear, probably winning advantage] c6! [ This stong move finally ensures Black's advantage and eventual victory. Perhaps White could have offered stiffer resistance, but probably Black is already winning]] 24.Ree1 c5 25.Bb2 f5 26.bxa6 bxa6 27. Bc3 Bf6 28. Rxe8 Rxe8 29. Bxf6 Kxf6 30. f4 h6 31. g3 g5 32. Rb1 gxf4 33. gxf4 Re4 34. Rb6 Rxf4 35. Rxd6+ Ke5 36. Rxh6 Rxa4 37. d6 Rd4 38. d7 Rxd7 39. Rxa6 Rd6 40. Ra8 c4 41. h4 Rc6 42. Kf2 Ke4 43. Ke2 c3 44. Kd1 f4 45. Kc2 f3 46. Re8+ Kf4 47. Rf8+ Kg3 48. h5 Kg2 49. h6 Rxh6 50. Kxc3 f2 51. Rg8+ Kf1 52. Kd2 Rd6+ 53. Kc3 Rd5 54. Kc4 Rd2 55. Ra8 Ke1 0-1

 

[Tomoyo]

Thanks for the analysis, Luceafarul, I always learn a lot from your posts (and I enjoy reading them too!).

 

[Stegyre]

Thanks for the analysis, Luceafarul, I always learn a lot from your posts (and I enjoy reading them too!).

Seconded.

First, Panzar, now this. Makes me feel like I was almost brilliant . . . except for all of those great moves I missed!

Oh, well, live and learn. I'd much rather have my head handed to me on a platter by a better player than spend my time slaughtering a worse one.

 

[Narz]

Oh, well, live and learn. I'd much rather have my head handed to me on a platter by a better player than spend my time slaughtering a worse one.

I like a 50/50 ratio myself.

 

[Stegyre]

I like a 50/50 ratio myself.

Me, too, but there's a 50:50 against an 1800 player and a 50:50 against a 1000 player. To paraphrase Nietzche, "battle not against incompetents, lest you become incompetent."
So, I'll take my lickings as the price of improvement.
Speaking of which . . . a challenge?