[BNW] Shared Immortal Game Series Thread

[ForkOfSpite]

Was struggling a bit for happiness despite Fountain of Youth (Dido recently got a duplicate pearls to help, though). An annoying barb camp has spit out a galleass, so my food routes might be in trouble - I really should have been working towards education and compass. Stole three workers from Liz which helped significantly, but unless I get an army score, she'll be hostile (won't even accept embassy exchange). AI generally terrible on water maps, but if she sends a navy, it might be tricky. Excellent economy, but I'm not really doing anything with it - will need to buy some tiles after Tonga's lighthouse goes up. Invest in city states after that.

Still haven't met three AIs (but I know one of those is Gajah Mada - he won Genoa's culture quest I had hoped to win; plus, a CS or maybe one of my cities wants cloves or something like that). Two scouts were bogged down on an ancient ruins guarded by a barb archer. Eventually got it (upgrade) and turned to the nearby camp (CS quest with worker in it). The CS cleared the camp, and I forgot about the scout (it was on alert rather than heal).

Religion - 1c1f from gold and silver, tithe, up to 15% production. Used one missionary to spread to Samoa and Tonga. All five cities within 10 tiles of each other, so they're pretty safe. No point in enhancing. Will probably plant one prophet and use another for CS quests.

No wonders - most went early (Oracle on turn before I researched Philosophy), and my production queue was full anyway. Finally on Turn 89, I considered trying for Hanging Gardens, but capital has a lot of food and can build its own garden later. Plus, I noticed Sejong went tradition. Multiple AIs have gone Aesthetics, so I might not even get a Renaissance wonder.

No real plan for a culture victory, but it's not over yet!

Turn 21: Worker Steals

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Turn 89: National College

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[ForkOfSpite]

SIGS 3 Complete - Turn 236 Culture Victory! Was fun, and clearly, being concerned at Turn 89 was misplaced. No one ever threatened me militarily despite having the lowest military score through most of the game. Those annoying barbarian galleasses only plundered one of my trade routes (and that was just carelessness after I thought the threat was over). Barbs also captured my 11th and final archaeologist, but the game was well over by then - might not have finished the dig anyway. My lack of a Renaissance wonder concern was also misplaced - hard built Sistine Chapel and Leaning Tower.

Comparing to TSG 275 (Greece - immortal, culture, continents) which took me 290 turns, my science was significantly better in this game. It's not exactly a fair comparison (deity pace is quicker, bonuses given in this game, plus finding Writing and Sailing in ruins), but I think the main difference was detours before Scientific Theory (ST). In this game, I only detoured up to Compass and popped ST on Turn 155. In the Greece game, I detoured all the way to Archeology (plus Steel) and didn't get ST until Turn 200 or so.

Comparing times to Education - T111 in this game (workshops before universities) compared to T126 in the Greece game (universities before workshops). The bonuses and ancient ruins certainly explain sped things up significantly, but I already had workshops in this game and still got to Education 15 turns earlier. Plastics - T208 compared to T252. Internet - T221 compared to T268. I thought I'd win this game before completing the International Games (bought my only musician before since I didn't think IG would complete in time). Turns out IG finished, and I might have saved about 5 turns or so if I waited for IG.

Nevertheless, I don't know if I could have made the hard tech* strategy work in the Greece game. I relied on frigates to repel (and counterattack) Caesar. Maybe I could have put those hammers into crossbows and pikes and made it work. Of course, there's also the bribery and loans strategy - I rarely have the economy to make that work though, and when I do, it's not needed.

(* "Hard tech", yet my final science in a 5-city game was only 970. Lack of trading post/jungles and specialist slots - no banks, no factories - probably explain that.)

Another possible explanation was early game gold use - bought my first cargo ship, and I think that worked well (in this game). Also bought a library (fairly common). Needed to buy a lot of tiles - think I could have had better timing on those, though.

Best Moai Cities
1) Samoa
2) Nuku Hiva
3) Tonga

Turn 236 Screenshots
Polynesia

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Honolulu

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Samoa

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Tonga

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Nuku Hiva

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Raiatea (no airport)

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[raider980]

SIGS 3 Complete - Turn 236 Culture Victory! Was fun, and clearly, being concerned at Turn 89 was misplaced. No one ever threatened me militarily despite having the lowest military score through most of the game. Those annoying barbarian galleasses only plundered one of my trade routes (and that was just carelessness after I thought the threat was over). Barbs also captured my 11th and final archaeologist, but the game was well over by then - might not have finished the dig anyway. My lack of a Renaissance wonder concern was also misplaced - hard built Sistine Chapel and Leaning Tower.

Comparing to TSG 275 (Greece - immortal, culture, continents) which took me 290 turns, my science was significantly better in this game. It's not exactly a fair comparison (deity pace is quicker, bonuses given in this game, plus finding Writing and Sailing in ruins), but I think the main difference was detours before Scientific Theory (ST). In this game, I only detoured up to Compass and popped ST on Turn 155. In the Greece game, I detoured all the way to Archeology (plus Steel) and didn't get ST until Turn 200 or so.

Glad you liked it! And thats a good time. Polynesia is one of my favorite Civs; they don't get enough love on the tier lists. Even in non CV games I have fun with the Moai.

 

[raider980]

Here is SIGS4. We are Genghis Khan of The Mongols and the goal of course is domination! Lets see how good Keshiks are (spoiler, pretty darn good; borderline OP if you ask me). Can you finish the game with Keshiks? Some of the good players will even be able to get a head start with Chariot Archers, which upgrade into Keshiks. (The next SIGS game will be domination with Camel Archers; I want to compare the two since from what I've seen most players agree these are the two best UU's but some prefer Keshiks and some CAs.)

Its a great start; somehow The Mongol Empire ended up in the desert. Its a standard size standard pangea map. Oh and everyone will be going for domination, you and the AI.

Here's where we'll start:

 

[ForkOfSpite]

SIGS4 - Turn 60 Update

Spoiler :

Three-city, six-lux Liberty. Askia and Napoleon as neighbors. Paris isn't accessible to chariots (at least, not for me). Gao looks wide open, but my army is only three scouts, two chariots, and a spear (initial warrior upgrade). That's certainly not enough, but even if it were, the spear and one of the chariots are not in a position to attack (the chariot would need 7 turns to get there and the spear would need 10). In that amount of time, I could get a third chariot there and maybe a horse, too. No idea if Turn 70 is too late to start a chariot rush on Immortal (Deity AI has pikes around that time).

Friendship with Dido (of course) and Sejong. Both were well timed - they offered just before I got a duplicate salt online, and I desperately needed the gold to buy tiles. They had the full 240 gold too which isn't always the case. Have been unhappy for about half the game which hurt the expansions a bit, but now that I have Liberty worker + Pyramids, I'll have two more lux up soon. Plus a third if I want to buy another tile (which I probably will).

Not sure how to proceed with research and social policies. Philosophy isn't needed for Chivalry, so should I go for a very late (or even ignore) the National College? If Keshiks are the end game scenario, then I don't need the NC. Regarding social policies, I have left-side Liberty (settler) plus the free worker. I intend to go into honor, but I don't know about the timing. The other two liberty policies are both good (culture/golden age and road connection happiness), but taking both significantly delays honor. Plus, if I finish Liberty first, I'm not sure what I'd do with the free great person. Presuming NC isn't ready, I think the choice would be either a GS (plant probably or bulb for chivalry if the timing works) or a Prophet for an early enhance. Another option would be GE for the great wall to prevent someone else from getting it, but Keshiks can breach the wall (however, great wall + forested hills are a bit much even for Keshiks). Regardless, GE for the great wall doesn't seem like a good idea.

Capital Build Order
Scout x2, shrine (Earth Mother on Turn 21), monument, worker. I don't remember exactly from there, but I think it went granary, settler, scout, chariot archer x2 as the next five builds in some order. Then the Pyramids which completed on Turn 60.

Ancient Ruins
Don't remember the order here, but weapons upgrade (warrior), culture, tech (animal husbandry), population, gold x2, barb camps.

Research
Pottery, (Animal Husbandry), Mining, Masonry, Archery, Wheel, Calendar, Writing, Trapping, Horseback Riding (in progress)

Turn 60 Screenshot

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SIGS4 - Turn 97 Update

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Turn 97 Screenshot First:

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The Great Person in that screenshot is from the Liberty finisher. Obviously, GE for the Great Wall isn't an option. This certainly isn't a well executed speed Domination game if I'm spending hammers on wonders. Excuse? Somewhat limited by the unit cap and need more workers. Can't really support a second army right now.

I think the best choice at this point would have been to plant a scientist but I didn't realize how far I still am from Chivalry (checking after the fact - 32 turns for Civil Service, Guilds, and Chivalry at the current rate plus the unneeded two turns to finish Philosophy). Of course, that will change, but it still seems like a long time to wait. Will try to start my second war soon against Napolean. (Upon further consideration, I need to wait for Civil Service before going after Napolean. He's medieval, so there's a good chance he already has pikes which would destroy my meager army.) Paris is actually somewhat open to chariots, but his expansions are in the way. The northern expansion is inhospitable terrain for chariots, but the southern one has some openings. Will keep a horse lookout though to make sure he doesn't take an army via the northern route to my capital. I have three comp bows - the lookout can give me time to get them in position to defend, and I can produce units pretty quickly in my capital if necessary. Hopefully it won't be necessary though - intending to go for the Oracle in two turns. Yes, the National College would be better but not as fun. Plus, one policy closer to the honor xp policy should speed things up for the second army that I will need.

First war (other than the one-turn war against Mogadishu to steal a worker with a nearly dead scout) - I DOW'd Askia on Turn 70. Askia was the military leader at 48,621, and I was seventh with 31,496. In other words, much closer than usual. They weren't all there at the time, but my army finished the war with five chariots, 2 horses, 2 spears, and 2 workers. Didn't lose any units, but it was close. One-turn repair plus pillage saved the spear, but just barely. The final push was also close. Used one chariot to finish a unit and the others didn't quite take Gao to zero health. Attacked the city across the river with two horses and then the target spear bait was able to capture. Peace deal on Turn 83.

Turn 83 Screenshot - Gao Falls

Spoiler :

Back to the Liberty Great Person - took a prophet not knowing exactly how I would enhance. I had the first religion on Turn 65 (Earth Mother, Tithe, Pagodas). Three more religions were founded but none were enhanced. Didn't know exactly what I would take, but I knew mosques were still available and that'd at least be an okay choice. Holy Warriors was available, but my faith isn't that dominating - 240 faith for a keshik seems mostly pointless. Mosques is a reasonable choice, but what would I spend my faith on after getting the buildings? Looking at the enhancers, I decided to take the cheaper and more powerful prophets (Messiah). I think the 25% stronger means they can spread one additional time, so five cities per prophet. (Was wrong - 25% stronger means 1250 strength - converts more citizens per use which can be wasted on small cities after capture.) That'll help gold via tithe - might as well help production too by taking the Religions Community as the second follower (up to +15% production). Taking a second happiness belief might have been a better choice, but that's still to be determined.

Social Policies - Decided to finish Liberty (culture then happiness). The golden age that came with the culture policy fixed my economy. I'm sure the happiness policy will help too, but I took that for the great person. Keshiks have their own xp boost, so I was initially planning to go right-side first (at least to happiness + culture). Thinking about it more though, I'll go left-side honor first and then probably commerce. Getting keshiks to their fourth and fifth promotions quicker seems seems like a good idea. Might make up for the late Chivalry (and waiting so long to make the second army).

Research - Significant deviations from Chivalry, but they seemed like a good idea at the time. Already took Mining, Masonry, and Calendar for luxuries - those are obviously worth it. Researched Bronze Working to see iron (Earth Mother plus help economy by selling) but primarily for spears to block. More precisely, spear singular - only built one more (initial warrior upgraded, so I have two). Regardless, that's still a necessary choice if I'm starting war before Chivalry.

As for questionable research choices - Took Construction in case I need colosseums. Also, comp bows for defense. Also took Engineering for bridges over water (I promise I didn't choose Engineering in order to build the Great Wall). The final detour is in progress - Philosophy.

 

[ForkOfSpite]

Turn 186 Domination Victory! (SIGS4)

Spoiler :

I think the AI malfunctioned somehow - they were not competitive. Does turning off the culture, science, and diplomatic victory conditions do that? Shaka, for example, only had two expansions, and he built the Parthenon in one of them (he did eliminate Pacal though, so that's in character). Four of the AIs went Piety (Askia, Sejong, Harun, and Pacal). Dido eventually had six cities, but one very late and another was a captured Mayan city (probably from a peace deal - I doubt she successfully attacked him across the bay).

Napoleon was the only AI that tried to expand aggressively, but he was slow and I crippled him from Turns 109-130 (raze Lyon, capture Paris, capture Troyes leaving him with only Orleans). He still tried though - managed to resettle three or four more cities cutting Paris off from the rest of my empire. Was a bit worried when Dido tributed one of the CS north of Paris as I was marching towards Carthage. If she attacked Paris, I would have had to either buy an army there or go through Napolean again (he wouldn't take eight lux for open borders).

But at least he tried unlike Askia. I took Gao on Turn 83 leaving him with his only expansion. He never tried to expand anywhere again.

More signs of AI incompetence:
* I was wonder spamming because I didn't feel a need to get more military (I was making excuses about unit cap - the fix to that, of course, is to capture more cities)
* Built Pyramids, Great Wall, Oracle, Petra, Notre Dame (mix of hard build + an engineer that spawned during the build), Leaning Tower, and Red Fort (engineer from Leaning Tower). Was two turns away from Borobudur when game ended.
* First to Renaissance which I entered by researching all Medieval technologies
* They didn't seem to care about city state alliances
* Harun captured Hanoi for no apparent reason (snow city with one lux)
* Captured a French expansion on Turn 115 with chariots, pikes, and a horse

Religion
Religion was useful. Bought 9 pagodas (plus a mosque and university in Gao). Only spawned two prophets after enhancing - I was wrong about 25% stronger meaning a fifth conversion. Instead, they are 1250 strength which converts more people, I guess. Still helps tithe and religious community but not as much as I was hoping. My empire was unrealistically happy for most of the game, and pagodas certainly helped with that.

Gold
Dido had a deity-like economy (most likely due to the free harbors). Accepting and keeping that friendship was essential for the way I played this game. Early, I needed the gold to buy tiles (think I need to do that more often in other games). Her gold helped with unit upgrades (primarily, six chariots). After I was up and running, her gold continued to help me with city states.

Social Policies
* Full Liberty (settler before worker)
* Left side Honor
* Commerce (game ended one policy before completing commerce)

War Path
Disjointed - very much not optimized. The army went east (Gao), then west (Paris), then to the far northeast (Mecca), then north central (Ulundi). Then, while I was still working on making my way to Palenque, the "secondary army" gathered in the southeast (Seoul). That army needed some help from a couple of well promoted units. After that most of the army made their way home to start the final campaign against Dido.

Gao and Lyon via chariots (and pikes for Lyon). Keshiks for the rest. Only razed three cities (Lyon, Damascus, Saguntum).
* DOW Askia T70 - Gao T83
* DOW Napolean T109 - Lyon T115, Paris T128, Troyes T130
* DOW Harun T135 - Damascus T138, Mecca T145 (liberate Hanoi with peace deal)
* DOW Shaka T147 - Ulundi T158, Umgungundlovu T162, Nobamba T164, Palenque T168
* Honest about troops on borders, so DOW Sejong between T161 and 162 - Jeonju T166, Seoul T172
* DOW Dido T174 - Saguntum T178, Gades T181, Hippo Regus T184, Carthage T186

Carthage Falls:

Spoiler :

 

[raider980]

I think the AI malfunctioned somehow - they were not competitive. Does turning off the culture, science, and diplomatic victory conditions do that?

I was wondering if it would. I thought maybe it would make them more aggressive; it seems to in my game. Askia attacked me, Huran attacked me even though we were friends, and everyone was attacking everyone else. It could still make them less competitive though; like if they go Piety as so many did in your game, having only Domination as an option would be detrimental.

Here's the first attack of the game; I rebuffed it and then went on to take his capital. I'm going to do a couple of more Domination ones to compare: Arabia with the same setup as here. Then the Mongols and Arabia again with all victory conditions active. Keshiks and Camel Archers are so fun that four games in a row won't seem too much.

Spoiler T90 :