[BNW] Shared Immortal Game Series Thread

[ForkOfSpite]

Was struggling a bit for happiness despite Fountain of Youth (Dido recently got a duplicate pearls to help, though). An annoying barb camp has spit out a galleass, so my food routes might be in trouble - I really should have been working towards education and compass. Stole three workers from Liz which helped significantly, but unless I get an army score, she'll be hostile (won't even accept embassy exchange). AI generally terrible on water maps, but if she sends a navy, it might be tricky. Excellent economy, but I'm not really doing anything with it - will need to buy some tiles after Tonga's lighthouse goes up. Invest in city states after that.

Still haven't met three AIs (but I know one of those is Gajah Mada - he won Genoa's culture quest I had hoped to win; plus, a CS or maybe one of my cities wants cloves or something like that). Two scouts were bogged down on an ancient ruins guarded by a barb archer. Eventually got it (upgrade) and turned to the nearby camp (CS quest with worker in it). The CS cleared the camp, and I forgot about the scout (it was on alert rather than heal).

Religion - 1c1f from gold and silver, tithe, up to 15% production. Used one missionary to spread to Samoa and Tonga. All five cities within 10 tiles of each other, so they're pretty safe. No point in enhancing. Will probably plant one prophet and use another for CS quests.

No wonders - most went early (Oracle on turn before I researched Philosophy), and my production queue was full anyway. Finally on Turn 89, I considered trying for Hanging Gardens, but capital has a lot of food and can build its own garden later. Plus, I noticed Sejong went tradition. Multiple AIs have gone Aesthetics, so I might not even get a Renaissance wonder.

No real plan for a culture victory, but it's not over yet!

Turn 21: Worker Steals

Spoiler :

Turn 89: National College

Spoiler :

 

[ForkOfSpite]

SIGS 3 Complete - Turn 236 Culture Victory! Was fun, and clearly, being concerned at Turn 89 was misplaced. No one ever threatened me militarily despite having the lowest military score through most of the game. Those annoying barbarian galleasses only plundered one of my trade routes (and that was just carelessness after I thought the threat was over). Barbs also captured my 11th and final archaeologist, but the game was well over by then - might not have finished the dig anyway. My lack of a Renaissance wonder concern was also misplaced - hard built Sistine Chapel and Leaning Tower.

Comparing to TSG 275 (Greece - immortal, culture, continents) which took me 290 turns, my science was significantly better in this game. It's not exactly a fair comparison (deity pace is quicker, bonuses given in this game, plus finding Writing and Sailing in ruins), but I think the main difference was detours before Scientific Theory (ST). In this game, I only detoured up to Compass and popped ST on Turn 155. In the Greece game, I detoured all the way to Archeology (plus Steel) and didn't get ST until Turn 200 or so.

Comparing times to Education - T111 in this game (workshops before universities) compared to T126 in the Greece game (universities before workshops). The bonuses and ancient ruins certainly explain sped things up significantly, but I already had workshops in this game and still got to Education 15 turns earlier. Plastics - T208 compared to T252. Internet - T221 compared to T268. I thought I'd win this game before completing the International Games (bought my only musician before since I didn't think IG would complete in time). Turns out IG finished, and I might have saved about 5 turns or so if I waited for IG.

Nevertheless, I don't know if I could have made the hard tech* strategy work in the Greece game. I relied on frigates to repel (and counterattack) Caesar. Maybe I could have put those hammers into crossbows and pikes and made it work. Of course, there's also the bribery and loans strategy - I rarely have the economy to make that work though, and when I do, it's not needed.

(* "Hard tech", yet my final science in a 5-city game was only 970. Lack of trading post/jungles and specialist slots - no banks, no factories - probably explain that.)

Another possible explanation was early game gold use - bought my first cargo ship, and I think that worked well (in this game). Also bought a library (fairly common). Needed to buy a lot of tiles - think I could have had better timing on those, though.

Best Moai Cities
1) Samoa
2) Nuku Hiva
3) Tonga

Turn 236 Screenshots
Polynesia

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Honolulu

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Samoa

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Tonga

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Nuku Hiva

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Raiatea (no airport)

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[raider980]

SIGS 3 Complete - Turn 236 Culture Victory! Was fun, and clearly, being concerned at Turn 89 was misplaced. No one ever threatened me militarily despite having the lowest military score through most of the game. Those annoying barbarian galleasses only plundered one of my trade routes (and that was just carelessness after I thought the threat was over). Barbs also captured my 11th and final archaeologist, but the game was well over by then - might not have finished the dig anyway. My lack of a Renaissance wonder concern was also misplaced - hard built Sistine Chapel and Leaning Tower.

Comparing to TSG 275 (Greece - immortal, culture, continents) which took me 290 turns, my science was significantly better in this game. It's not exactly a fair comparison (deity pace is quicker, bonuses given in this game, plus finding Writing and Sailing in ruins), but I think the main difference was detours before Scientific Theory (ST). In this game, I only detoured up to Compass and popped ST on Turn 155. In the Greece game, I detoured all the way to Archeology (plus Steel) and didn't get ST until Turn 200 or so.

Glad you liked it! And thats a good time. Polynesia is one of my favorite Civs; they don't get enough love on the tier lists. Even in non CV games I have fun with the Moai.

 

[raider980]

Here is SIGS4. We are Genghis Khan of The Mongols and the goal of course is domination! Lets see how good Keshiks are (spoiler, pretty darn good; borderline OP if you ask me). Can you finish the game with Keshiks? Some of the good players will even be able to get a head start with Chariot Archers, which upgrade into Keshiks. (The next SIGS game will be domination with Camel Archers; I want to compare the two since from what I've seen most players agree these are the two best UU's but some prefer Keshiks and some CAs.)

Its a great start; somehow The Mongol Empire ended up in the desert. Its a standard size standard pangea map. Oh and everyone will be going for domination, you and the AI.

Here's where we'll start:

 

[ForkOfSpite]

SIGS4 - Turn 60 Update

Spoiler :

Three-city, six-lux Liberty. Askia and Napoleon as neighbors. Paris isn't accessible to chariots (at least, not for me). Gao looks wide open, but my army is only three scouts, two chariots, and a spear (initial warrior upgrade). That's certainly not enough, but even if it were, the spear and one of the chariots are not in a position to attack (the chariot would need 7 turns to get there and the spear would need 10). In that amount of time, I could get a third chariot there and maybe a horse, too. No idea if Turn 70 is too late to start a chariot rush on Immortal (Deity AI has pikes around that time).

Friendship with Dido (of course) and Sejong. Both were well timed - they offered just before I got a duplicate salt online, and I desperately needed the gold to buy tiles. They had the full 240 gold too which isn't always the case. Have been unhappy for about half the game which hurt the expansions a bit, but now that I have Liberty worker + Pyramids, I'll have two more lux up soon. Plus a third if I want to buy another tile (which I probably will).

Not sure how to proceed with research and social policies. Philosophy isn't needed for Chivalry, so should I go for a very late (or even ignore) the National College? If Keshiks are the end game scenario, then I don't need the NC. Regarding social policies, I have left-side Liberty (settler) plus the free worker. I intend to go into honor, but I don't know about the timing. The other two liberty policies are both good (culture/golden age and road connection happiness), but taking both significantly delays honor. Plus, if I finish Liberty first, I'm not sure what I'd do with the free great person. Presuming NC isn't ready, I think the choice would be either a GS (plant probably or bulb for chivalry if the timing works) or a Prophet for an early enhance. Another option would be GE for the great wall to prevent someone else from getting it, but Keshiks can breach the wall (however, great wall + forested hills are a bit much even for Keshiks). Regardless, GE for the great wall doesn't seem like a good idea.

Capital Build Order
Scout x2, shrine (Earth Mother on Turn 21), monument, worker. I don't remember exactly from there, but I think it went granary, settler, scout, chariot archer x2 as the next five builds in some order. Then the Pyramids which completed on Turn 60.

Ancient Ruins
Don't remember the order here, but weapons upgrade (warrior), culture, tech (animal husbandry), population, gold x2, barb camps.

Research
Pottery, (Animal Husbandry), Mining, Masonry, Archery, Wheel, Calendar, Writing, Trapping, Horseback Riding (in progress)

Turn 60 Screenshot

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SIGS4 - Turn 97 Update

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Turn 97 Screenshot First:

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The Great Person in that screenshot is from the Liberty finisher. Obviously, GE for the Great Wall isn't an option. This certainly isn't a well executed speed Domination game if I'm spending hammers on wonders. Excuse? Somewhat limited by the unit cap and need more workers. Can't really support a second army right now.

I think the best choice at this point would have been to plant a scientist but I didn't realize how far I still am from Chivalry (checking after the fact - 32 turns for Civil Service, Guilds, and Chivalry at the current rate plus the unneeded two turns to finish Philosophy). Of course, that will change, but it still seems like a long time to wait. Will try to start my second war soon against Napolean. (Upon further consideration, I need to wait for Civil Service before going after Napolean. He's medieval, so there's a good chance he already has pikes which would destroy my meager army.) Paris is actually somewhat open to chariots, but his expansions are in the way. The northern expansion is inhospitable terrain for chariots, but the southern one has some openings. Will keep a horse lookout though to make sure he doesn't take an army via the northern route to my capital. I have three comp bows - the lookout can give me time to get them in position to defend, and I can produce units pretty quickly in my capital if necessary. Hopefully it won't be necessary though - intending to go for the Oracle in two turns. Yes, the National College would be better but not as fun. Plus, one policy closer to the honor xp policy should speed things up for the second army that I will need.

First war (other than the one-turn war against Mogadishu to steal a worker with a nearly dead scout) - I DOW'd Askia on Turn 70. Askia was the military leader at 48,621, and I was seventh with 31,496. In other words, much closer than usual. They weren't all there at the time, but my army finished the war with five chariots, 2 horses, 2 spears, and 2 workers. Didn't lose any units, but it was close. One-turn repair plus pillage saved the spear, but just barely. The final push was also close. Used one chariot to finish a unit and the others didn't quite take Gao to zero health. Attacked the city across the river with two horses and then the target spear bait was able to capture. Peace deal on Turn 83.

Turn 83 Screenshot - Gao Falls

Spoiler :

Back to the Liberty Great Person - took a prophet not knowing exactly how I would enhance. I had the first religion on Turn 65 (Earth Mother, Tithe, Pagodas). Three more religions were founded but none were enhanced. Didn't know exactly what I would take, but I knew mosques were still available and that'd at least be an okay choice. Holy Warriors was available, but my faith isn't that dominating - 240 faith for a keshik seems mostly pointless. Mosques is a reasonable choice, but what would I spend my faith on after getting the buildings? Looking at the enhancers, I decided to take the cheaper and more powerful prophets (Messiah). I think the 25% stronger means they can spread one additional time, so five cities per prophet. (Was wrong - 25% stronger means 1250 strength - converts more citizens per use which can be wasted on small cities after capture.) That'll help gold via tithe - might as well help production too by taking the Religions Community as the second follower (up to +15% production). Taking a second happiness belief might have been a better choice, but that's still to be determined.

Social Policies - Decided to finish Liberty (culture then happiness). The golden age that came with the culture policy fixed my economy. I'm sure the happiness policy will help too, but I took that for the great person. Keshiks have their own xp boost, so I was initially planning to go right-side first (at least to happiness + culture). Thinking about it more though, I'll go left-side honor first and then probably commerce. Getting keshiks to their fourth and fifth promotions quicker seems seems like a good idea. Might make up for the late Chivalry (and waiting so long to make the second army).

Research - Significant deviations from Chivalry, but they seemed like a good idea at the time. Already took Mining, Masonry, and Calendar for luxuries - those are obviously worth it. Researched Bronze Working to see iron (Earth Mother plus help economy by selling) but primarily for spears to block. More precisely, spear singular - only built one more (initial warrior upgraded, so I have two). Regardless, that's still a necessary choice if I'm starting war before Chivalry.

As for questionable research choices - Took Construction in case I need colosseums. Also, comp bows for defense. Also took Engineering for bridges over water (I promise I didn't choose Engineering in order to build the Great Wall). The final detour is in progress - Philosophy.

 

[ForkOfSpite]

Turn 186 Domination Victory! (SIGS4)

Spoiler :

I think the AI malfunctioned somehow - they were not competitive. Does turning off the culture, science, and diplomatic victory conditions do that? Shaka, for example, only had two expansions, and he built the Parthenon in one of them (he did eliminate Pacal though, so that's in character). Four of the AIs went Piety (Askia, Sejong, Harun, and Pacal). Dido eventually had six cities, but one very late and another was a captured Mayan city (probably from a peace deal - I doubt she successfully attacked him across the bay).

Napoleon was the only AI that tried to expand aggressively, but he was slow and I crippled him from Turns 109-130 (raze Lyon, capture Paris, capture Troyes leaving him with only Orleans). He still tried though - managed to resettle three or four more cities cutting Paris off from the rest of my empire. Was a bit worried when Dido tributed one of the CS north of Paris as I was marching towards Carthage. If she attacked Paris, I would have had to either buy an army there or go through Napolean again (he wouldn't take eight lux for open borders).

But at least he tried unlike Askia. I took Gao on Turn 83 leaving him with his only expansion. He never tried to expand anywhere again.

More signs of AI incompetence:
* I was wonder spamming because I didn't feel a need to get more military (I was making excuses about unit cap - the fix to that, of course, is to capture more cities)
* Built Pyramids, Great Wall, Oracle, Petra, Notre Dame (mix of hard build + an engineer that spawned during the build), Leaning Tower, and Red Fort (engineer from Leaning Tower). Was two turns away from Borobudur when game ended.
* First to Renaissance which I entered by researching all Medieval technologies
* They didn't seem to care about city state alliances
* Harun captured Hanoi for no apparent reason (snow city with one lux)
* Captured a French expansion on Turn 115 with chariots, pikes, and a horse

Religion
Religion was useful. Bought 9 pagodas (plus a mosque and university in Gao). Only spawned two prophets after enhancing - I was wrong about 25% stronger meaning a fifth conversion. Instead, they are 1250 strength which converts more people, I guess. Still helps tithe and religious community but not as much as I was hoping. My empire was unrealistically happy for most of the game, and pagodas certainly helped with that.

Gold
Dido had a deity-like economy (most likely due to the free harbors). Accepting and keeping that friendship was essential for the way I played this game. Early, I needed the gold to buy tiles (think I need to do that more often in other games). Her gold helped with unit upgrades (primarily, six chariots). After I was up and running, her gold continued to help me with city states.

Social Policies
* Full Liberty (settler before worker)
* Left side Honor
* Commerce (game ended one policy before completing commerce)

War Path
Disjointed - very much not optimized. The army went east (Gao), then west (Paris), then to the far northeast (Mecca), then north central (Ulundi). Then, while I was still working on making my way to Palenque, the "secondary army" gathered in the southeast (Seoul). That army needed some help from a couple of well promoted units. After that most of the army made their way home to start the final campaign against Dido.

Gao and Lyon via chariots (and pikes for Lyon). Keshiks for the rest. Only razed three cities (Lyon, Damascus, Saguntum).
* DOW Askia T70 - Gao T83
* DOW Napolean T109 - Lyon T115, Paris T128, Troyes T130
* DOW Harun T135 - Damascus T138, Mecca T145 (liberate Hanoi with peace deal)
* DOW Shaka T147 - Ulundi T158, Umgungundlovu T162, Nobamba T164, Palenque T168
* Honest about troops on borders, so DOW Sejong between T161 and 162 - Jeonju T166, Seoul T172
* DOW Dido T174 - Saguntum T178, Gades T181, Hippo Regus T184, Carthage T186

Carthage Falls:

Spoiler :

 

[raider980]

I think the AI malfunctioned somehow - they were not competitive. Does turning off the culture, science, and diplomatic victory conditions do that?

I was wondering if it would. I thought maybe it would make them more aggressive; it seems to in my game. Askia attacked me, Huran attacked me even though we were friends, and everyone was attacking everyone else. It could still make them less competitive though; like if they go Piety as so many did in your game, having only Domination as an option would be detrimental.

Here's the first attack of the game; I rebuffed it and then went on to take his capital. I'm going to do a couple of more Domination ones to compare: Arabia with the same setup as here. Then the Mongols and Arabia again with all victory conditions active. Keshiks and Camel Archers are so fun that four games in a row won't seem too much.

Spoiler T90 :

 

[raider980]

Here is SIGS 5. This is the companion game to SIGS4. Here we play as Harun of Arabia. Lets see how Camel Archers compare to the Keshik of last game. Of course not a fair comparison since the maps are quite different. This one is harder, I'm sure better players may be able to finish it with CAs but I don't think I will. Its a fun one nonetheless!

 

[ForkOfSpite]

Here is SIGS 5. This is the companion game to SIGS4. Here we play as Harun of Arabia. Lets see how Camel Archers compare to the Keshik of last game. Of course not a fair comparison since the maps are quite different. This one is harder, I'm sure better players may be able to finish it with CAs but I don't think I will. Its a fun one nonetheless!

A lot of potential here. Scout, scout, monument, shrine isn't ideal - hope I can buy the shrine instead. Looks like I went scout, scout, shrine, monument for the keshik game, so I'm not sure why I'm fixated on monument before the shrine now.

Honor or Liberty? Or Tradition for scout, scout, shrine start? Full honor certainly helps upgrade chariots, but the full war machine from finishing honor works well with commerce and autocracy (i.e., hoping to end the game before HCA allows purchasing units with three promotions). So, I'll probably try full liberty + left-side honor again. Military tradition might be more important for camels than keshiks (no self xp boost plus not as many xp opportunities since they deal more damage). But, if I can train chariots well, might forgo honor completely.

In order, the opening techs will likely be pottery, animal husbandry (need to find the horses), and then mining. If there are early worker opportunities, they can farm while waiting for their mining gear. From there, how quickly will I want chariots? If I want to start the full war with chariots, I might forgo Philosophy this time and use the Liberty finisher to plant a scientist (or maybe a prophet again). No oracle in that case, but presumably, the chariots will have some promotions before upgrading, so no honor either. I I decide to start with mostly fresh camels though, will try for early National College and Oracle.

Session 1 - Turn 55

Spoiler :

Yeah, I second the difficult map. Chariots are out of the equation. Just finished Philosophy and going for a 2-city National College. Five unique luxuries, but only three are improved right now. One of the five isn't even in my borders yet.

Screenshot (Mecca is on gold, Medina is on gems):

Spoiler :

Unfortunately, it's a 17-turn National College build in the capital as is. I'll buy the gold hill and maybe a second desert hill (by the lake, probably). If I get the archer down to 1-turn, I'll complete it. Otherwise, switch immediately to the NC.

Religion - Was mid-shrine when I found a 20-faith ruin, so desert folklore on Turn 22. It'll be a tough call when I get the (presumably first) religion. I'll probably go with pagodas or even mosques to help the culture. Might go with religious community first though to speed up the NC (and Oracle too if I decide to go for that).

Social Policies - First policy on turn 20. Seriously debated Honor to help with barbs (plus, barb culture helps), but finally decided on Liberty. It's an unusual Liberty though - took Citizenship (worker) and Representation (lower policy cost + golden age) as my second and third policies. Medina (see below) is NOT from the Collective Rule free settler. At the time I chose the second policy (Turn 27), I didn't see anywhere that I wanted to put a third city. Plus, I didn't have any workers (no convenient steals with the way I scouted and never got anything in position to wait for them). So, I took the free worker which makes Representation an easy choice for Liberty 3. Republic was fourth, and since the NC will be done, Collective Rule will probably be fifth. Will want religious pressure from both other cities, so I might go for the jungle cocoa - Arabia's UA might change my mind, but then I'd need to get a caravan to it. Seems wrong to not go for the Pyramids, but decided to stick with the NC rush "plan" since I'm not warring with chariots. Maybe I can pick up the pyramids later (maybe chop for it in Medina while capital is working on NC and Oracle).

Technology - Pottery, Animal Husbandry, Mining, 1-turn into Writing, change my mind for Archery, finish Writing, Calendar, Philosophy.

Capital Builds - scout, scout, monument, start shrine, switch to worker, granary (purchase archer while building granary), finish shrine, library, worker, 1-turn into archer right now

Medina Builds - monument, archer, library, granary is in progress

Ancient Ruins - map, barbs, pop (mid 2 -> 3), gold, barbs, 20 faith, map

War Plan - Figure it out later. I did lose a scout to a barbarian threatening my worker. Used scout to zone-of-control and thought the partial fortification, hill defense, and health gained from not moving that turn would have been enough to survive against the injured brute. It was not.

*Settler for Medina:

Spoiler :

I was first to find El Dorado (T12). Used that to purchase the settler.

Sessions 2 and 3 - Turn 95

Spoiler :

Resign on Turn 95:

Spoiler :

Thought I took a screenshot at the end of Turn 94 to show how close I was to killing the spear that took Mecca (as well as an accurate estimate for Chivalry). But, I underestimated the threat - looks like the 250 gold I spent to remain allies with a culture city state should have been spent elsewhere. Built a spear in Mecca the same turn I finished Civil Service (Turn 88) - immediate upgrade. Another pike from Medina a few turns later. Thought that plus the one remaining horse (one died earlier somewhat unexpectedly and the one in Medina in the screenshot just finished) would be enough, but the pike attacking from the city across a river and into the hill (with a great general spawned earlier that turn) came up 5 or 10 hp short. Maybe I should have switched to units after the spear rather than the bazaar. One more archer (or better yet, a chariot that I could upgrade) would have been the difference. Not having engineering significantly hurt the defense, but I still should have repelled that attack and taken Paris not long after.

Overall, I thought I was in good position and the strategy (Liberty/Left-side Honor, quick NC into chivalry rush, plant a scientist with the Liberty finisher) was solid. Two-city National College on Turn 66. Oracle (completed Turn 82) right after ended up as a poor choice though - it only sped up the Liberty finisher by about 9 turns, but that's second guessing. The Oracle was also a culture city-state quest, so if I hadn't underestimated the threat, then it would have been a good choice (plus, the 9-extra turns with a planted scientist is big). I was also intending to chop out the pyramids in Medina, so I researched a 3-turn Masonry right after Philosophy. Pocatello completed the pyramids the same turn I completed that detour, so it was a waste (but at least I hadn't invested any hammers into it, and again, the AI threats called for construction anyway). Bronze working was also a detour but needed since I was sending the free Liberty settler into the jungle (was also hoping for barracks before camels, but that never materialized).

Second Attempt

Spoiler :

Tried a similar approach, but scouting has a huge effect on ruins (calendar tech, culture, upgraded the warrior and a scout). Had enough gold to buy the shrine (plus the settler from El Dorado) so I wouldn't need to depend on a faith ruin. Was looking like a very strong start, but scouting affects more than ruins and ...

Napoleon forward settled me much, much faster than the first game. Orleans doesn't exist on my Turn 55 screenshot in the first game, but he settled it very early in the second (estimate around Turn 35). Plus, it was two hexes to the west where he had a catapult in the T95 screenshot above. I teched bronze working earlier (i.e., before Philosophy) and built some more units. I DOW'd him, but wasn't really strong enough to do anything, so I abandoned that game. When I try again, I'll need to get some comp bows to at least defend. The question is, can I still get Philosophy and NC first? Probably not if I want to attack with comp bows, but it might work if I only need to defend.

The biggest differences compared to the keshik game:
1) El Dorado
2) The rough terrain
3) No easy and helpful AI friend like Dido from the keshik game (although maybe I just hadn't scouted far enough to find that AI in this game)

 

[raider980]

Yeah, I second the difficult map. Chariots are out of the equation. Just finished Philosophy and going for a 2-city National College.

I almost rolled another map when I saw all the rough terrain. But after playing a bit of it, I was grateful for the defensive advantage! I went with Chariots despite the terrain and with their higher attack, they proved to be good to help fend off the initial onslaught. Opened Tradition and went full Honor like in the Mongol game. The AI are way more aggressive in this one though!

Spoiler :

I came across El Dorado too and used it to buy the settler to go to the coast. But before I could go for a third city, on T42 Napoleon and Monte double DoW'd me. Luckily, Napoleon didn't really attack. But Monte did - thank goodness for those mountains he only had a narrow pass to come through and Medina was in hilly terrain.

Then in the middle of that fight, Shaka joined the party and DoW me on T75. I was able to hold him off - both he and Monte were going for Medina but there wasn't room to maneuver so neither of them could get it. I peaced out with Monte after I took the city that he founded when he snuck a settler by and settled on my side of the mountains. Meanwhile, I took the fight to Napoleon and took Orleans and Paris before bringing my army back to Medina to push Shaka back.

Now, at T147 its time to take the fight to Shaka and capture his capital. Impi are so tough though, even my Camels are having a hard time. Definitely won't be winning this one with Camels but might be able to win the game.

 

[ForkOfSpite]

SIGS5 Replay - Turn 100

Spoiler :

Screenshot:

Spoiler :

I replayed Turns 1-25 several times for scouting and ended up with a game in which Napoleon never bothered to found a second city. It's amazing how initial scouting can affect AI games. Was intending to make Napolean the first victim (he has Zeus), but that would eliminate him from the game. Going after Shaka first would likely get some DoF. Dido and Monty joint declared against Shaka. Monty bowed out, but the war might still be going between Dido and Shaka. Plus, others have denounced him. Already have war roads for both Napolean and Shaka, so I could easily change my target. However, I think taking Zeus first would be more "optimal". Plus, I don't think AIs hating me will matter (after I sign some trade agreements this turn), so I think I'll stick with taking Zeus first.

I'm one turn from Chivalry but will only be able to upgrade one chariot immediately (barracks were in place for the chariots). However, three AIs finally have some reasonable gold per turn which I can leech (bazaar just finished in Mecca), so the other two should upgrade fairly quickly. The single turn with extra gold should be enough to upgrade a second chariot immediately, but the third will need to wait about four more turns or so. I think the chariot being built in Medina will finish as a camel. Two horses to capture. The single pike is the initial warrior - probably need more of those. As gold comes in, I might upgrade some archers and send them to help (Construction will be the first tech after chivalry).

Forgot to buy desert hills in Mecca, so it couldn't handle the Oracle after NC (massive growth though, 13 population but only 12 tiles in its cultural borders). However, Medina got the Pyramids and then the Oracle a bit later. Massive influence with the friendly culture CS up north (Bucharest) via a barb camp quest followed immediately by a trade route and find Shoshone quests (influence still at 95 with them). Was also allies with its hostile culture city state neighbor (same barb camp plus left over influence from an earlier quest that I don't remember). Good culture from those allies plus one culture ruin, plus Oracle, plus an occasional +5 culture from citizens born in Damascus going to El Dorado, plus working El Dorado once Damascus hit Pop 4. In total, Liberty is complete, Honor opened (that was the Oracle policy), and I have the honor general. About 10-15 turns from Military Tradition. Not quite in time for the beginning of the war path, but still pretty good.

Religion - Took Religious Community rather than Pagodas this time even though the wonders were build in the expansion with no benefit. Bought a missionary when I could and spread to expansions (wonders already done - in fact, Oracle finished on the same turn I bought the missionary). Monty had the first pantheon, but I had the first religion. He has since founded and enhanced (mosques and temple happiness) and reformed (convert barbarians). No other AI went piety and none have a religion. A few have pantheons though, so they could still beat me to pagodas.