Short question about Submarines

[onomastikon]

Hello, still plodding on in Emperor, havent had many games that last to late ages, still in Vanilla, have this question on subs:
Are subs somehow "different" than other naval units? I built one or two, thinking that they would be somehow niftier, or at least attackable by only other subs, but it seems they can be sunk by anything. Unless I am missing something, I found them to be a bit dissapointing -- normal subs are everything that a destroyer is, only slower and crappier; why build them?
Am I missing something?

 

[Fried Egg]

Sub's have a sneak attack ability which allows them to pick which unit (in a stack of units) to attack as opposed to the stongest unit automatically being selected for defence.

Destroyers and AEGIS cruisers can detect subs but other ships (such as battleships and transport ships) can't.

 

[Dreadnought]

With subs you basically have to use them to attack transports, even guarded by ships. With the stealth Attack ability, you can pick out which unit to attack. Even if there is a battleship guarding a transport, you can choose to attack the transport.

Hope that helps

 

[Tone]

Isn't the stealth attack only in C3C? In vanilla you just take on the most powerful defender first IIRC.

I don't build them anymore and this goes back to my vanilla/PtW days when they would appear to lead to random declarations of war when AIs would bump into my subs and attack them. I guess that could be called a sneak attack but the AI doesn't do that with random land units so I always thought of it as a bug. Does this happen in Conquests? Are you guys saying that I should investigate these units again?

 

[onomastikon]

Thanks -- I didnt notice this sneak attack (yet) in Vanilla.
I did, however, get into a battle with a few AI ironclads and my sub was damaged badly, which I thought wouldnt be the case. I read in some utility spreadsheet somewhere that AEGIS cruisers can "see subs", but I dont know what that means in terms of game mechanics.

 

[Sybot]

The AI still bumps into random subs and declares war in C3C.

The only use I've found in vanilla is using nuclear subs to deliver the cheaper tactical nuke to the enemy and I've only read about that, not actually used it. The subs seem just usless without the stealth attack they have in C3C and even then it doesn't matter about sinking transports since the AI sucks at sea invasions.

 

[Fried Egg]

Subs can enter someone elses territorial waters without their notice (so they don't ask you to leave).

 

[Tone]

Thinking about this some more, the AI must still know where subs are. If war is declared, surely they will seek and destroy any subs in vanilla the same way that any ship at sea is easily 'found' by the AI. It just like the way the AI knows where there are any gaps for their settlers, even if they have no maps of the target area!

 

[Tone]

The AI still bumps into random subs and declares war in C3C.

Thanks for that info. I guess that's good to know if you want an AI to declare on you-just leave a sub in its waters and hope that it is a home ship that hits your sub.

 

[Hassenpfeffer]

I find that to be one of the most infuriating things about the game... I'm just sitting there peacefully with my sub, and the AI just tromps on over and declares war at the drop of a hat. Humph.

 

[VladTepes]

I find that to be one of the most infuriating things about the game... I'm just sitting there peacefully with my sub, and the AI just tromps on over and declares war at the drop of a hat. Humph.

Sounds like the "AI vs. sub collision" bug. If they can't see the sub, they'll continue on the path, run into your sub, attack it, and suddenly you're at war!

 

[Tesuji]

Ehh... I don't think I ever got around building a sub other than on the easiest levels.

 

[axehaxe]

Wha...???????? There's a bug like that??? Cool, I'm going to have to try that! lol

 

[Breunor]

Wha...???????? There's a bug like that??? Cool, I'm going to have to try that! lol

Its one of the worst remaining bugs.

Breunor

 

[metalhead]

I've been nuked a few times from AI nuclear subs in one game. It's the only time I've ever even seen one in a game.