Should Civs Have An In-Game Wonder?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Stonecutter9, Aug 6, 2013.

  1. Stonecutter9

    Stonecutter9 Rex Michiganensis

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    The title isn't as extreme as my question: Should MOST civs have an in-game wonder? I know we have a lot of wonders, but would more be such a crime? After all, everyone can be a winner! :lol:

    I know that Pouakai and sukritact have developed an amazing collection of wonders which include most every civ... but I would like to see more in the unadulterated, 'pure', game.

    SEE BELOW FOR THE UPDATED LIST

    Spoiler :
    At first glance, it may seem like most civs are represented, but a count would show that only 22 of the 43 civs (teetering above 50%) have a wonder in Civ 5. Obviously, a select few civs simply did not build on the grand scale required of a wonder and thus they probably should be excluded, so take the list with a grain of salt.

    First are the civs which have at least one wonder, ordered by how many. The list takes into account who built the wonder, not whose territory currently encompasses the wonder. Three civs (England, Rome, and Russia) have national wonders in-game and I counted them as 1/2 wonders. Next are the wonder-less civs, in alphabetical order. Names in brackets are possible wonders (feel free to suggest more and I will update the OP). Finally, there are the in-game wonders built by a civ other than those in-game or some other extraneous structure. Beware, some wonder-less civs may shock you..

    • Greece (6) - Colossus, Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, Oracle, Parthenon, Statue of Zeus, Temple of Artemis
    • China (5) - Forbidden Palace, Great Firewall, Great Wall, Porcelain Tower, Terracotta Army
    • America (4) - Broadway, Hubble Space Telescope, Pentagon, Statue of Liberty
    • Egypt (3) - Great Library, Great Lighthouse, Pyramids
    • England (2+1) - Big Ben, Globe Theater, (East India Company*, Oxford University)
    • France (3) - Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Notre Dame
    • Germany (3) - Brandenburg Gate, Neuschwanstein, Prora
    • India (2) - Red Fort, Taj Mahal
    • Russia (1+1/2) - (Hermitage), Kremlin
    • Babylon (1) - Hanging Gardens
    • Brazil (1) - Cristo Redentor
    • Byzantium (1) - Hagia Sophia
    • Indonesia (1) - Borobudur
    • Japan (1) - Himeji Castle
    • Morocco (1) - Alhambra
    • Songhai (1) - Great Mosque of Djenne
    • The Celts (1) - Stonehenge
    • The Inca (1) - Machu Picchu
    • The Maya (1) - Chichen Itza
    • Rome (1/2) - (Circus Maximus)**

    • Arabia - [Dome of the Rock, House of Wisdom]
    • Assyria - [Library of Ashurbanipal***]
    • Austria - [Hofburg, Kunsthistorisches Museum, Staatsoper, Stephansdom]
    • Carthage - [Byrsa Citadel, The Cothon]
    • Denmark - [Kronborg, Roskilde Cathedral]
    • Ethiopia - [Biete Gyorgis]
    • Korea - [Cheomseongdae, Gyeongbokgung, Jongmyo]
    • Mongolia - [Registan]
    • Persia - [Apadana Palace, Gate of All Nations, Khaju Bridge, Royal Road****]
    • Poland - [Sukiennice,Wieliczka Salt Mines]
    • Portugal - [Belem Tower, Jeronimos Monastery, Sintra Palace]
    • Polynesia - [Moai Statues*****, Nan Madol]
    • Siam - [Ayutthaya, Wat Phra Keo]
    • Spain - [El Escorial, Guggenheim Museum Bilbao, Sagrada De Familia]
    • Sweden - [Gripsholm, Kalmar]
    • The Aztec - [Templo Mayor]
    • The Huns - [?]
    • The Iroquois - [?]
    • The Netherlands - [Rijksmuseum]
    • The Ottomans - [Blue Mosque, Topkapi Palace]
    • The Shoshone - [?]
    • The Zulu - [?]
    • Venice - [Grand Canal, Rialto, Saint Mark's Cathedral]

    *Certainly most European countries had an East India Company, but the Civilopedia entry mentions England, France, and The Netherlands; the tiebreaker for me was the tiny English flag visible in the build icon.
    **Rome NEEDS more than a national wonder; suggestions? [Hadrian's Wall***, The Colosseum, The Roman Forum, The Pantheon]
    ***A more specific version of the Assyrian UB
    ****Unorthodox, but so is the ISS
    *****A more specific version of the Polynesian UI

    • Angkor Wat
    • CN Tower
    • International Space Station
    • Leaning Tower of Pisa
    • Petra
    • Sistine Chapel
    • Sydney Opera House
    • Uffizi
     
  2. True_Candyman

    True_Candyman Emperor

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    Isn't the Great Firewall Chinese?

    Also, i already think we're a little cluttered with wonders :/ I wouldn't mind having more and a randomized selection with a number according to a slider in game set up being introduced though.
     
  3. Theruss

    Theruss Warlord

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    Mongolia and the Huns were too busy conquering, pillaging, and razing buildings and wonders rather than building them. :run:
     
  4. Duponey

    Duponey Chieftain

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    It is weird because it is not always obvious to make the list.
    Should it be considered at the time of which it was created or now ?
    Example : the GL could count for the Egyptian if it is the actual location that counts but if you say it is greek... then the Statue of Liberty is french... Same, the temple of Artemis is in actual Turkey.

    The Mausoleum is for Persia !
    Why is the Hagia Sophia only for the Byzantium and not for Turkey too ?
     
  5. Halcyan2

    Halcyan2 Emperor

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    Probably because he was listing wonders based on which country made it or received it when it was built. NOT whoever happens to now control the territory where it happens/happened to be.

    Temple of Artemis was constructed by the Greeks. Hagia Sophia was constructed by the Byzantines.

    Note that most of the Italian wonders the OP listed are unattributed (not given to Rome because they happen to be in Italy).

    Don't forget many civs had sprawling empires that covered lots of territory (and overlapped if you consider different time periods).
     
  6. regalman

    regalman Reckless Dolphin

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    Persia has the mausoleum
    Arabia could have the house of wisdom
    Ottomans built the dome of the rock, they could also have the topkapi palace
    Carthage could have the port of carthage
    Spain of isabella didnt build the alhambra, the moors did, but spain could have sagrada de familia
    Rome could have the forum
    Austria could have the kunsthistorisches museum, which would also have slots for great arts
    Aztecs could have the pyramids of teo
     
  7. Blitz Spearman

    Blitz Spearman Warlord

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    Alhambra was not built by Spain, it was built by the Arabians that occupied the Spanish territory during the Middle Ages.
     
  8. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

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    You mean Morocco* ^

    In fact the Moroccan government these days claims it as one of their cultural heritage sites and has even asked to receive half of the profits/rights to it
     
  9. Taurus

    Taurus Chieftain

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    OK, in which country is ISS then...? :D
     
  10. caiman0815

    caiman0815 Chieftain

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    -Alhambra is morrocean
    -imo great library and great lighthouse is egyptian. it was build during reign of ptolemaios I., who held reign over egypt, not greece
     
  11. VainoValkea

    VainoValkea Emperor

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    I don't think there should necessarily be a wonder for every civ. They should be picked by their own merits, not simply nationality. Some civs simply didn't do large constructions or cool projects that would be suitable.
     
  12. otaman1

    otaman1 Prince

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    America: Apollo Program, Broadway, Hubble Space Telescope, Manhattan Project, National Intelligence Agency, Pentagon (Barringer Crater, Grand Mesa, Old Faithful)
    Babylon: Hanging Gardens
    Brazil: Cristo Redentor
    Byzantium: Hagia Sophia
    China: Forbidden Palace, Great Firewall, Great Wall, Porcelain Tower, Terracotta Army (Mt. Kailash (arguably Tibet aka Lhasa))
    Denmark: United Nations
    Egypt: Great Lighthouse, Great Pyramids (Mt. Sinai (arguably Arabia or Israel aka Jerusalem))
    England: Big Ben, East India Company, Globe Theatre, Oxford University (Rock of Gibraltar)
    France: Eiffel Tower, Louvre, Notre Dame, Statue of Liberty, United Nations
    Germany: Brandenburg Gate, Neuschwanstein, Prora
    Greece: Colossus, Great Library, Oracle, Parthenon, Statue of Zeus, Temple of Artemis
    Inca: Machu Picchu
    India: Red Fort, Taj Mahal
    Indonesia: Borobudur (Krakatoa)
    Japan: Himeji Castle (Mt. Fuji)
    Maya: Chichen Itza
    Morocco: Alhambra
    Persia: Mausoleum of Halicarnassus
    Rome: Circus Maximus
    Russia: Hermitage, Kremlin

    Left outs: Angkor Wat, Artist's Guild, CN Tower, Grand Temple (dunno if it belongs to France or China), Great Mosque of Djenné, Heroic Epic, International Space Station, Ironworks, Leaning Tower of Pisa, Musician's Guild, National College, National Epic, National Treasury, Palace, Petra, Sistine Chapel, Stonehenge, Sydney Opera House, Uffizi, Writer's Guild (Cerro de Potosi, El Dorado, Fountain of Youth, Great Barrier Reef, King Solomon's Mines, Lake Victoria, Mt. Kilimanjaro, Sri Pada, Uluru)
     
  13. VainoValkea

    VainoValkea Emperor

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    National Intelligence Agency isn't really specifically American. Almost every nation, big and small, has one.
     
  14. oddtail

    oddtail Warlord

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    Regarding Wieliczka for Poland - if anything, I'd make it a Natural Wonder, certainly not a World Wonder. It would certainly make more sense than King Solomon's Mines ;).

    Sukiennice seem fine, though.
     
  15. VainoValkea

    VainoValkea Emperor

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    I would make Circus Maximus and Hermitage world wonders myself, by the way... it's odd that they are national wonders despite having the names of very specific constructions.
     
  16. Falconiano

    Falconiano Prince

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    How about the Leaning Tower of Pisa?
    The Sistine Chapel?
    The Colosseum (the real one) also only exists in Rome.
    Trajan’s Forum? The Pantheon?
    Caracalla&#8217;s Bath <3
    St. Peter's Basilica hands down.
    Aqueducts themselves were Roman invention too.
     
  17. VainoValkea

    VainoValkea Emperor

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    These are already in the game and were only built after the Roman era.

    I must admit I've been wondering why the colosseum isn't a wonder, but something you can pop in every city. It is an engineering masterpiece.
     
  18. True_Candyman

    True_Candyman Emperor

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    That makes no sense, presuming you mean Teotihuacan.

    Teotihuacan firstly was not Aztec and predates their empire, and secondly was more or less abandoned by the time of the Aztecs. It makes little enough sense as part of it's city list, but still not as little sense as Tlaxcala...


    I think some of the issues about having a wonder per civ are displayed quite clearly in the confusion in this thread :lol:
     
  19. The QC

    The QC Quietly Confident

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    I think it's used as a generic term for that type of building. The Romans built lots of them everywhere, most of them of course smaller than the Colosseum. By calling them coliseums, Firaxis was able to put them twice in the game :), because their real name is "amphitheatre".
     
  20. VainoValkea

    VainoValkea Emperor

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    Yeah, and they would've had come up with some other type of building to replace them! No other amphitheatre was as large or cool as the Colosseum, though...
     

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