Should Firaxis Bring Back Stalin

Stalin in Civ

  • Yes I miss him.

    Votes: 4 15.4%
  • No lol???

    Votes: 22 84.6%

  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .
Or just have an Indigenous Caribbean Civ and a South Slavic people instead. No need for Communists. :)

Frankly I don't want Civ's whose only viable leaders are from the 20th century in general.
Okay, Arawk can replaces Cuba. But what South Slavic civ can be draw otherwise the Yugoslavia? Yugoslavia should be a very good civ by the way, it has a strong man as Tito and the only way to see Serbians and Croatians in this game.

And about 20th century... I think is cool to have a diverse pool of leaders, some ancient as Gilgamesh and other more moderns.
 
Wow this thread went kinda offtopic. By the way guys, don't you think if they keep avoiding "controversial" leaders, we'll eventually end up with no warmongers except those from thousands of years ago.

Like I would want Napoleon, but now we can't have him. No Stalin, okay makes sense. And definitely no Hitler, that one I can definitely agree with. But at what point is it alright? Because Genghis and his hordes raped and killed thousands or hundreds of thousands. What about the Viking leaders?

What makes it okay to portray in a game? Does it need to be out of recent memory? Can we get Stalin in Civ 37 for the PS40 in the year 2077?
 
But what South Slavic civ can be draw otherwise the Yugoslavia? Yugoslavia should be a very good civ by the way, it has a strong man as Tito and the only way to see Serbians and Croatians in this game.
Kingdom of Serbia; Kingdom of Croatia. Kingdom of Croatia wouldn't be a very interesting addition, but Serbia was a powerful Medieval kingdom that absorbed a great deal of Byzantine territory, wealth, and prestige.

By the way guys, don't you think if they keep avoiding "controversial" leaders, we'll eventually end up with no warmongers except those from thousands of years ago.
It's less about "no controversial leaders" and more about maybe not including mass murderers whose victims are still alive.

Like I would want Napoleon, but now we can't have him.
I think it's less a matter of "can't" and more a matter of "he's boring and he's literally been in every version of Civ except Civ6 and he's a very poor representative of French history." He can come back in Civ29 when France has gone through all its more interesting leaders. :p
 
It's less about "no controversial leaders" and more about maybe not including mass murderers whose victims are still alive.
If we have Gengis Khan, Alexander the Great and Shaka Zulu who killed thousand of peoples. Why not have Stalin?
Stalin also lived a war period and most of atrocity linked to him, as Holodomor, is in the war context and because the second great war.

Kingdom of Serbia; Kingdom of Croatia. Kingdom of Croatia wouldn't be a very interesting addition, but Serbia was a powerful Medieval kingdom that absorbed a great deal of Byzantine territory, wealth, and prestige.
Very cool to know about theses kingdoms, thanks. I think the area was ever under Austrian/Otoman control...
But still, I still prefer Yugoslavia to be a civ then 2 civs for Serbians and Croatians, first because it will be just a spot for 6 nations! If we add Serbians or Croatians the other nations as Macedon don't will fell represented. Also, Serbians and Croatians are too nationalistic, I don't think should be nice inflame their nationalism in a game, Yugoslavia is a kind a middle term to be both in a game.
 
Wow this thread went kinda offtopic. By the way guys, don't you think if they keep avoiding "controversial" leaders, we'll eventually end up with no warmongers except those from thousands of years ago.

Like I would want Napoleon, but now we can't have him. No Stalin, okay makes sense. And definitely no Hitler, that one I can definitely agree with. But at what point is it alright? Because Genghis and his hordes raped and killed thousands or hundreds of thousands. What about the Viking leaders?

What makes it okay to portray in a game? Does it need to be out of recent memory? Can we get Stalin in Civ 37 for the PS40 in the year 2077?
I don't personally mind Napoleon, but there are also other better leaders for France like Louis XIV or even Cardinal Richelieu I'd rather see first. If I'd want a militaristic side to France he'd be obviously a good pick.

As for Stalin he'd be one of the last leaders for Russia that I'd personally want, no matter how modern/controversial he is. What "interesting" leader ability would you give him anyway?
I think it's less a matter of "can't" and more a matter of "he's boring and he's literally been in every version of Civ except Civ6 and he's a very poor representative of French history." He can come back in Civ29 when France has gone through all its more interesting leaders. :p
I'm pretty sure he wasn't in Civ 3. That honor went to Jeanne d'Arc. :p
Oh, and I guess Civ 2 had Louis XIV as the male leader.
 
Very cool to know about theses kingdoms, thanks. I think the area was ever under Austrian/Otoman control...
But still, I still prefer Yugoslavia to be a civ then 2 civs for Serbians and Croatians, first because it will be just a spot for 6 nations! If we add Serbians or Croatians the other nations as Macedon don't will fell represented. Also, Serbians and Croatians are too nationalistic, I don't think should be nice inflame their nationalism in a game, Yugoslavia is a kind a middle term to be both in a game.
If we have to have an Eastern Bloc nation led by a psychopath, I would prefer Yugoslavia to the USSR. At least Tito had the spine to tell Stalin to shove off.

If I'd want a militaristic side to France he'd be obviously a good pick.
Philippe Auguste. Charles V. Louis IX. Louis XIV. We don't need the rampaging Italian with self-esteem issues for a militaristic France. :p

As for Stalin he'd be one of the last leaders for Russia that I'd personally want, no matter how modern/controversial he is. What interesting leader ability would you give him anyway?
I think Boris's idea of just a string of maluses fits well. :mischief:

I'm pretty sure he wasn't in Civ 3. That honor went to Jeanne d'Arc. :p
Ugh, don't remind me. I had finally suppressed that from my memory. :sad:
 
If we have Gengis Khan, Alexander the Great and Shaka Zulu who killed thousand of peoples. Why not have Stalin?

Zaarin did say "whose victims are still alive".

Shaka died nearly two hundred years ago. There's no one alive who remember that time, and even the children and grandchildren of people who lived then are dead. It's in the past now. Genghis is even further back, and Alexander, even further than that. The suffering they created is just text in the history book now, not something that still has a deep personally effect on still-living people.

Some victims of Stalin are likely still alive. Their immediate descendants - children and grandchildren - definitely are. For them, what Stalin things directly armed them or the people closest to them, their loved ones. Turning Stalin into a toy in a game is reopening those wounds, for no good reason.
 
Philippe Auguste. Charles V. Louis IX. Louis XIV. We don't need the rampaging Italian with self-esteem issues for a militaristic France. :p
I think France is represented fine with its two leaders and one persona for Civ 6. The Imperial Garde UU representing Napoleon in Civ 6 works for me.
 
The main problem with France is really that it's out-leadered by England now and clearly this is an injustice that cannot stand!
 
The main problem with France is really that it's out-leadered by England now and clearly this is an injustice that cannot stand!
I think instead of having another persona for Harald or Victoria, we could have another French leader.
 
The main problem with France is really that it's out-leadered by England now and clearly this is an injustice that cannot stand!
How about Charlemagne for France and Germany, so Germany can catch up too? :mischief:
I think instead of having another persona for Harald or Victoria, we could have another French leader.
Another persona for Harald is fine because he's only leading Norway. Plus, I hope Varangian Harald will synergize with the Stave Church.
 
Another persona for Harald is fine because he's only leading Norway. Plus, I hope Varangian Harald will synergize with the Stave Church.
"Could I invite you to celebrate Holy Mass with me, by Odin?" :mischief:
 
Back to the topic about communist leaders, maybe Russia and China should have leaders of it's imperial times, as Russia with Peter the Great and China with Qin Shi Huang. And be add other civs who don't have great names otherwise it's communist names as Cuba, with Fidel Castro and Yugoslávia with Tito.
Vietnã should be amazing with Ho Chi Minh, but I guess they have a lot of other names.
Fidel Castro would be out anyways, regardless, because he died in the 21st Century.
Okay, Arawk can replaces Cuba. But what South Slavic civ can be draw otherwise the Yugoslavia? Yugoslavia should be a very good civ by the way, it has a strong man as Tito and the only way to see Serbians and Croatians in this game.

And about 20th century... I think is cool to have a diverse pool of leaders, some ancient as Gilgamesh and other more moderns.
Kingdom of Serbia; Kingdom of Croatia. Kingdom of Croatia wouldn't be a very interesting addition, but Serbia was a powerful Medieval kingdom that absorbed a great deal of Byzantine territory, wealth, and prestige.


I think it's less a matter of "can't" and more a matter of "he's boring and he's literally been in every version of Civ except Civ6 and he's a very poor representative of French history." He can come back in Civ29 when France has gone through all its more interesting leaders. :p
Or perhaps even Simeon I (a lot of people often forget Bulgarians are also Southern Slavs just because they were never politically united under the Kingdom, and then Federal Socialist Republic, of Yugoslavia). Or, if one wanted a closer to modern, but not too close to home, leader, maybe Nicola Pasic. As Prime Minister of Serbia, he led very stiff resistance and staunch leadership against the expected steamroller of Austro-Hungarian aggression in WW1, before any aid could be sent to them by their new Allies, as everyone was wrangling over the growing Western and Eastern Fronts - Serbian resistance surprised most contemporary observers, and I believe they even made the first aerial bombardments of WW1 (which was only the third war in history such bombardments were ever made in military history, after the Italo-Turkish War of 1911 and the First Balkan War).
If we have Gengis Khan, Alexander the Great and Shaka Zulu who killed thousand of peoples. Why not have Stalin?
Stalin also lived a war period and most of atrocity linked to him, as Holodomor, is in the war context and because the second great war.
The Holodomor (I walk by the first placed monument to it ever erected at the city hall of Edmonton, Alberta every day) was almost a decade before Operation Barbarossa and had nothing, at all, to do with WW2 or Nazis.
I don't personally mind Napoleon, but there are also other better leaders for France like Louis XIV or even Cardinal Richelieu I'd rather see first. If I'd want a militaristic side to France he'd be obviously a good pick.

As for Stalin he'd be one of the last leaders for Russia that I'd personally want, no matter how modern/controversial he is. What "interesting" leader ability would you give him anyway?

I'm pretty sure he wasn't in Civ 3. That honor went to Jeanne d'Arc. :p
Oh, and I guess Civ 2 had Louis XIV as the male leader.
Yes, Louis XIV and Joan of Arc are the default male and female leaders of the French in Civ2, and I, too, remember the, "Sinead O'Connor," Joan of Arc model in Civ3.
Zaarin did say "whose victims are still alive".

Shaka died nearly two hundred years ago. There's no one alive who remember that time, and even the children and grandchildren of people who lived then are dead. It's in the past now. Genghis is even further back, and Alexander, even further than that. The suffering they created is just text in the history book now, not something that still has a deep personally effect on still-living people.

Some victims of Stalin are likely still alive. Their immediate descendants - children and grandchildren - definitely are. For them, what Stalin things directly armed them or the people closest to them, their loved ones. Turning Stalin into a toy in a game is reopening those wounds, for no good reason.
Of course, there's also context, not just time passed in some cases. For instance, even though no U.S. Civil War veteran, any of their widows, any of their direct children, or anyone who was in a legal state of slavery at the time is still alive, today, the U.S. social and political zeitgeist would still make Jefferson Davis (if one REALLY wanted him, for some reason) prohibitive, while Abraham Lincoln, whose armies and polices killed a LOT more people and did a LOT more damage (the March to the Sea, for example) than Davis could have hoped to do, is an acceptable and honoured choice, again, because of the zeitgeist. So, it's not always as simple as just, "living victims," in all cases.
 
Or perhaps even Simeon I (a lot of people often forget Bulgarians are also Southern Slavs just because they were never politically united under the Kingdom
I didn't forget Bulgaria; I was simply answering specifically about Serbs and Croats. Bulgaria and Serbia are clearly the top choices for Medieval Southern Slavs.
 
I didn't forget Bulgaria; I was simply answering specifically about Serbs and Croats. Bulgaria and Serbia are clearly the top choices for Medieval Southern Slavs.
What about Medieval Bosnia, with the Church of Bosnia, which both Roman Catholics AND Eastern Orthodox agreed (your earlier comment comes to mind) was a horrible heresy and must be destroyed, but the actual reason is not clear today. Though many scholars believe it was a later flowering of the Bogolins, there's no solid CONTEMPORARY evidence of that, even.
 
What about Medieval Bosnia, with the Church of Bosnia, which both Roman Catholics AND Eastern Orthodox agreed (your earlier comment comes to mind) was a horrible heresy and must be destroyed, but the actual reason is not clear today. Though many scholars believe it was a later flowering of the Bogolins, there's no solid CONTEMPORARY evidence of that, even.
Yeah, my general impression that any association of the Bosnian church with gnosticism comes from centuries later (actually even the association of the Bogomils with gnostic thought comes from a rather indirect relationship with the Paulicians, as I understand it). I could see a Bosnian civ led by Tvrtko I, though I shudder to think what Sean Bean would do to his name...
 
I think France is represented fine with its two leaders and one persona for Civ 6. The Imperial Garde UU representing Napoleon in Civ 6 works for me.
Why not Charles VII 'The Well Served'? He's the French King who proelled Jean d'Arc to fame as liberation leader.
He introduced the concepts of 'National Standing Army' to Europe since the fall of Old Roman Empire first, while gunpowder weapon (Big Guns, smaller handguns of 'arquebus' and 'musket' type did not come to exists yet.) did a finishing touch to expell English Rule.
 
Why not Charles VII 'The Well Served'? He's the French King who proelled Jean d'Arc to fame as liberation leader.
He introduced the concepts of 'National Standing Army' to Europe since the fall of Old Roman Empire first, while gunpowder weapon (Big Guns, smaller handguns of 'arquebus' and 'musket' type did not come to exists yet.) did a finishing touch to expell English Rule.
If you want a Hundred Years' War king for France, Charles V is far and away the better choice. Charles VII did win the war, but he was often indecisive and weak. His reign was overshadowed by Jeanne d'Arc TBH.
 
^ Charles V of France a person who created a basis of modern day standing army? by creating 'Ordonnances' Army in place of mercs, knights, and levies.?
No, but Charles V began his reign with both the nobility and the peasantry in a state of revolt and a significant portion of France under English control. He put down the revolts and recaptured most of France from the English, and in the midst of the War still managed to patronize the arts and the Church, strengthen the Crown, and improve his capital. The Hundred Years' War might have been much shorter had his son Charles VI "the Mad" not lost everything his father had won. (Charles V isn't my top choice for French leader or even militaristic French leader--but for a Hundred Years' War French leader, I do think he's the optimal choice.)
 
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