Should I mass build adepts early on?

[Minor Annoyance]

It seems like I should since they gain exp over time and it's hard to find opportunity to get them combat exp. Also assassins later on may take out experienced arcane units and you can't just build another then. So should I be building as many as I can afford as soon as they are available?

 

[Zechnophobe]

Depends. A lot of strategies don't even really use arcane units, so it isn't necessary. Also Arcane civs, and especially the Amurites, can actually build up their arcane units pretty quick. If you think you'll be needing/wanting mages or archmages, than yes, building adepts early is a very good idea.

I notice the amurite adepts, if you get them quick, will very much outclass most of your other units. They gain free XP, and have very useful spells like Haste.

 

[Calbrenar]

I would say if you can afford the maintenance go for it. You have to balance having all the extra casters with xp vs having less strong melee units in case of a war vs the lower tech rate because of a bigger standing army.

 

[BeefontheBone]

If you'r Sidar, the answer is probably 'yes' too - the sooner they're built, the sooner you get to Wane them

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Before .31d I would have advised against it. Adepts built later (one you have multiple sources of several mana types) would have more free promotions, allowing you to get free level 1 spells while still an adept and the promotions that would allow level 2 spells once you upgrade. However, the free promotions are now granted when you upgrade the unit instead, so there really is no reason not to build lots of adepts early in the game.

Remember, arcane units get free xp without needed to fight. While killing off a few goblins can help them level up, you don't really need to gather xp in this way if you build your adepts soon enough. Also, if you can get enough mana before upgrading, you can easily devote your adepts free xp to combat promotions and make them more able to gain xp the old fashioned way.

 

[stp]

As Amurite, you can actually get a lot better adepts with the Cave of Ancestors. Plus arcane leaders greatly increase your XP gain. So it might be interesting to build more powerful adepts once you get sorcery. It is easy to build adepts that instantly level up to mages so as Amurites you can just build adepts when you need them. But for any other civ especially with no arcane leader it might be good to start mass production early if you are going for mages.

MC is correct on the free sphere promotions in .31d, but I think he wanted to say that the promotions are now granted when you update.

 

[Caradoc]

Adepts can gain EPs hanging around the front lines and waiting for opportunities. With Strength 3, the odds against Goblins and Orcs are pretty good when the Adept is on a forest hill. There will also be times when a horseman weakens a unit and then withdraws, leaving a tasty target. So rather than parking my early Adepts in a city and waiting for free EPs, I get them Haste and send them out with my fighters. (And they make good seagoing explorers, since they can hop off the boat to grab a Goodie Hut and then cast Haste and hop back on. No problem with hostiles.)

 

[EverNoob]

In 0.31 with Tebryn Arbandi you can beeline KoE and just use Adepts for early military. Since the Sheaim start with death mana you can summon skeletons right away.

 

[Zechnophobe]

If you'r Sidar, the answer is probably 'yes' too - the sooner they're built, the sooner you get to Wane them

Mm, suuure. This is one of those 'in theory' strategies that works out horribly. Not being arcane, they're adepts will basically never reach 26 XP, unless you upgrade them to Mages, which means you also have to beeline for sorcery.

All of this comes down to shove, and you finally get your level 6 mages... and you turn them into little production boosts or econ boosts, instead of death-dealing archmages? Definately a flawed plan.

 

[xienwolf]

That is why Priests work a little bit better. They gain XP faster than an adept, and it doesn't hurt quite so much to lose em. Plus they can hold their own in defense fairly well.

 

[Zechnophobe]

That is why Priests work a little bit better. They gain XP faster than an adept, and it doesn't hurt quite so much to lose em. Plus they can hold their own in defense fairly well.

Priests gain XP faster? You mean via the random chance at the start of each turn, or due to them being more combat worthy? (If the former, I didn't actually know that was true).

 

[Yaotzin]

They gain XP at the same rate as mages IIRC, so faster than adepts.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Adepts have Channeling 1, which gives a 20% chance to gain xp each turn (although other things, like current xp, can modify this. Also, only unit with <bFreeXP>1 get the free xp, but all priests and arcane units have this tag.)

Priests start with Chaneling2, which gives a 30% chance to gain xp each turn (with the save caveats)

Mages have both channeling 1 and 2, so they have a 50% chance of gaining xp each turn (with the same caveats)

High Priests have channeling 2, and 3 (which gives a 40% chance of free xp per turn), so they have a 70% chance of gaining xp each turn (with the same caveats)

Archmages have channeling 1, 2, and 3 (which gives a 40% chance of free xp per turn), so they have a 90% chance of gaining xp each turn (with the same caveats)

 

[Zechnophobe]

Are you sure that's right? I was under the impression the % chance of XP didn't stack. That is, that Channeling 2 gives you 30%, and having channelling 1 & 2 means you still only have 30%.

And yeah, when Xien said 'priests' I was thinking ye olde strength 3 religion spreaders (which don't get free XP at all now I think about it). My Bad.

 

[xienwolf]

In testing they do seem to stack (Worldbuilder 10 Archmagi, then remove Channeling 1 & 2 from them, place next to them 10 Archmagi without modifications and run a couple turns of SHIFT+ENTER. After about 40 you'll see a trend of the un-modded stack having more XP)

 

[Ur_Vile_Wedge]

I've noticed Liches don't seem to get the free xp. Is that a bug or working as designed?

 

[slowcar]

usually i chose a city when i research adepts and just set it on queue. after the first adept is able to upgrade i queue hunters+birds instead to protect my new assets from assassins.

 

[xienwolf]

Most likely you just have a ton of XP by that point. It seems that arcane units lose a small % chance of gaining XP per current XP on the unit. Thus as an Archmage (channeling 1-3) is rather hard pressed to gain any XP beyond the 45th point for free. (and an adept struggles to gain XP past 20, with Mages fairly unlikely past 30).

Reasonably certain it is based on current XP, and not on Level, because when I had tested it I hadn't bothered to spend the XP on promotions, I just ran a couple turns and watched for any change in the value.

 

[mindlar]

The current XP is subtracted from the chance to get a bonus XP. So a mage with 10xp has a 40% chance of gaining xp (20 for channeling 1, 30 for channeling 2, -10 for current xp) each turn.

 

[Love]

I use to build 3 so i have 3 archmages and then i might build some more afterwards as reserves