Should I mass build adepts early on?

[Slvynn]

if you play sidar use combat mages. (body 2, 1, spirit 1 from palace + 1 earth mana for earth 2 spell) = regeneration, stoneskin + haste combo+ courage for healing boost. just use stack combat 3 promoted mages against barbs. You will get wanes very fast n easy.

If you play order cast bless on your mages and get +1 str boost to kill stuff.

If you have Law mana from palace go for Valor, and use it as well.

 

[Grey Fox]

Are you sure that's right? I was under the impression the % chance of XP didn't stack. That is, that Channeling 2 gives you 30%, and having channelling 1 & 2 means you still only have 30%.

All promotion attributes stack. The way it works is that first it goes through all promotions and add the values from their attributes into an attribute on the unit. The attribute on the Unit is then used in any calculation.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

if you play sidar use combat mages. (body 2, 1, spirit 1 from palace + 1 earth mana for earth 2 spell) = regeneration, stoneskin + haste combo+ courage for healing boost. just use stack combat 3 promoted mages against barbs. You will get wanes very fast n easy.

If you play order cast bless on your mages and get +1 str boost to kill stuff.

If you have Law mana from palace go for Valor, and use it as well.

Sidar palace mana types are now Spirit, Enchantment, and Shadow, not Body. They don't have body anymore. Kael stated that the reason the Grigori had Water mana was mostly because each civ needs one sphere that allows summons, and I pointed out that the Sidar don't have any such spheres. (He changed the mana types before he streamlined the spell system, albeit they got released at the same time I also pointed out that the Sidar's wane ability makes them loose the animal passions that Aeron's sphere represents, so shadow seems more appropriate.

 

[Wyrmhero]

Adepts have Channeling 1, which gives a 20% chance to gain xp each turn (although other things, like current xp, can modify this. Also, only unit with <bFreeXP>1 get the free xp, but all priests and arcane units have this tag.)

Priests start with Chaneling2, which gives a 30% chance to gain xp each turn (with the save caveats)

Mages have both channeling 1 and 2, so they have a 50% chance of gaining xp each turn (with the same caveats)

High Priests have channeling 2, and 3 (which gives a 40% chance of free xp per turn), so they have a 70% chance of gaining xp each turn (with the same caveats)

Archmages have channeling 1, 2, and 3 (which gives a 40% chance of free xp per turn), so they have a 90% chance of gaining xp each turn (with the same caveats)

Does this mean that Firebows, Ratha and Radiant Guards (each with Channeling 2) have a 30% chance to gain xp per turn? Or does that just apply to Arcane/Disciple units?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Check the Caveat: Only unit with <bFreeXP>1 get the free xp. Firebows, Ratha, and Radiant Guards have <bFreeXP>0, so they don't get the free xp. It doesn't have to be only for arcane/disciple units, but I think those are the only ones that have this tag are in those unitcombats.

Also, the Empyrean units you mention just start with Sun II, they don't have any Channeling promotions.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Just had an idea while reading this:

The idea is, to give archmages the ability to build something like the academy the great sage is able to build. Let's call it "Hogwarts" for simplicity.

If there is a Hogwarts in a city, you will be able to build mages there instead of adepts. This should speed up the much needed arcane unit replacement in the late game.

 

[Yaotzin]

Would tread all over the Amurites uniqueness though.

 

[Slvynn]

NO, not fan of idea, because its actually what make Arcane unit unique and balance them - total impossibility of instant replace of lost unit. That should not be changed.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Could be cool if it were instead a temporary building created by a spell that only Govannon could cast. Perhaps it could also (or instead) make non-arcane units start with the same free promotions as they would get were they adepts.

 

[Jean Elcard]

I don't see, how it would take away the uniqueness of the Amurites? They will keep the Cave of Ancestors and all their other magic unique hocus-pocus. As a non-Amurite leader you will really have to focus on getting an archmage for quite a while before getting the chance to sacrifice! him for building a Mage Academy, which is probably a good National Wonder candidate.

I also like the idea of MagisterCultum of making it a spell for Govannon only, but I would prefer not giving non-aracane units any arcane promotions through it. Govannon is a great teacher, so why not let him pass on his knowledge to his students in a city of yours. That sound kind of logically.

 

[Grey Fox]

Cause Amurites are able to build Adepts at 10 XP == Mages out of the bat (+cost to upgrade).

 

[Jean Elcard]

Cause Amurites are able to build Adepts at 10 XP == Mages out of the bat (+cost to upgrade).

Ok, that explains it.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Adepts have Channeling 1, which gives a 20% chance to gain xp each turn (although other things, like current xp, can modify this. Also, only unit with <bFreeXP>1 get the free xp, but all priests and arcane units have this tag.)

Priests start with Chaneling2, which gives a 30% chance to gain xp each turn (with the save caveats)

Mages have both channeling 1 and 2, so they have a 50% chance of gaining xp each turn (with the same caveats)

High Priests have channeling 2, and 3 (which gives a 40% chance of free xp per turn), so they have a 70% chance of gaining xp each turn (with the same caveats)

Archmages have channeling 1, 2, and 3 (which gives a 40% chance of free xp per turn), so they have a 90% chance of gaining xp each turn (with the same caveats)

So, if I have this right, the XP chance% boils down to:

+10% base chance for an ARCANE class unit to gain 1 XP each turn.
+10% for channeling I
+20% for channeling II
+30% for channeling III
+20% for Arcane promotion
-X% where X is the current XP of the unit.


So a non arcane adept has a 20% per turn of gaining the XP at 0 xp, which moves towards 10% chance once he gets to 10 xp, where he can upgrade to a mage. Once he does so, it jumps up to 30% chance.

an Arcane adept, then, has 40% chance out the door. More importantly, though, is that they gain XP at the same rate as a normal adept after they've gotten 20 XP already, meaning their free XP cap is significantly higher.

Max possible free xp for an Arcane Archmage would seem to be 10+10+20+30+20 = 90.

Anyone see any errors here?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

How about making all the spell spheres available to any unit with channeling1 and the free resource, and making a Govannon-building that gives all units channeling 1. It wouldn't give free spells to non-arcane units, but it would let Amurite units learn magic on their own.

I'm also thinking it could be good to make this an Amurite UB replacing the Shrine of the Champion. It makes more sense to carry on Govannon's legacy by teaching magic to the common man than by waging war.


I also just thought of a really cool spell: "Commune with the Ancestors" (or a better name) would require the unit have channeling 1 and be in a city with a cave of the ancestors. It would work a lot like arena; you would have a 50-50 shot of losing the unit, but if you don't then the unit will gain Channeling 2 (or, if an adept, upgrade to a Wizard without a level requirement). Would it be too powerful to then allow units with channeling 1 and 2 to use this to become archmages, with a >90% chance of being killed?

(I'm actually thinking of removing both Arcane and Summoner as traits, making their abilities available other ways. Dimensional Magic would extend the duration of summoned units. The Sheaim Planar Gates would give a free Twincast, and Caves of the Ancestors would give out the arcae promotion. I never really liked the xp mechanism of Caves of the Ancestors, so I may remove it.)

 

[Zechnophobe]

So, I didn't know how to do the math, but I could write a program to just test it a few million times, so here's some numbers for ya'll (Assuming my figures from above are correct:


Arcane adepts take about 28 turns to get from 0 xp to 10 xp (level 4)

Charismatic adepts take about 49 turns to get from 0 xp to 8 xp (level 4)

Charismatic and Arcane adepts take about 21 turns to get from 0 xp to 8 xp (level 4)

normal adepts take about 66 turns to get from 0 xp to 10 xp (level 4).

So if you were wondering about that arcane trait, and its use, there ya go. 66 turns without, 28 turns with. And if you play Perpentach, and he stays Arcane Charismatic for a while, you can get those little guys bumping in about 21 turns.

(The above was calculated using the average for 10 million iterations).

 

[xienwolf]

I think that Arcane was changed to be 20%, and you forgot unholy Taint which is another 10%. Thus it is possible to get 110 with a lot of patience, some luck (infernal Grimoire) and the right Leader Trait.

 

[Zechnophobe]

I think that Arcane was changed to be 20%, and you forgot unholy Taint which is another 10%. Thus it is possible to get 110 with a lot of patience, some luck (infernal Grimoire) and the right Leader Trait.

I have arcane listed up there as 20%. (Edit: Ah, I see what you were looking at, I meant 'units that gain free Xp" with that big upper case arcane on the first line, the promotion is listed below. my bad)

Forgot about unholy taint, that'd get you to 100, though I can't imagine having the patience to try it.