Should Ireland be included in RFCE 2.0?

[AtlantaMarty]

The reasons why Ireland should be included:

1. Even if Ireland was not an independent, unified state during this mod, it was a major culture.
2. Having England settle Ireland is incredibly offensive. It's about equivalent to having Germany settle Poland and France.
3. Better gameplay, to control Ireland, england should have to conquer it from the native Celtic inhabitants.

Also, Ireland was an independent country from 1177 until 1801, although it was also ruled by the king of England.

So please,
Add Ireland to RFCE 2.0!

 

[swinnend]

1. Even if Ireland was not an independent, unified state during this mod, it was a major culture.
While of course, this was not true for Catalonia, Frisia, The Basque Country, Flanders, Occitania, ... Point is none was ever a major power in Europe. It doesn't make sense trying to conquer part of Europe for any of these, including Ireland.
2. Having England settle Ireland is incredibly offensive. It's about equivalent to having Germany settle Poland and France.
Or have France settle Germany, has happens in the game?
Look, England controlled Ireland. That is what being represented.
3. Better gameplay, to control Ireland, england should have to conquer it from the native Celtic inhabitants.
When I play, I always have to conquer Dublin. Dublin is standing alone, as it was the last outpost of the Celts in Europe. Pretty accurate.

Also, Ireland was an independent country from 1177 until 1801, although it was also ruled by the king of England.
The concept of personal union was not really relevant for that time period. One king meant one country.

Look, I think everyone here respects the Irish. Please don't take it personally. I am Belgian myself. Doesn't make sense to have Belgium or any of its historical components in there. I just play each of the foreign rulers to control the territory to make it historical to me: Burgundy (though I shouldn't really consider Burgundy foreign), France, Germany, Spain(hard), Austria (really hard).
Don't take it as insult to the Irish. It was not meant that way, it is a game.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

In 1177, Ireland was a semiautomonus papal possesion run by the king of England
In 1542, it became an independent kingdom in personal union with England (Britain after 1707)

However, Ireland had its own house of Lords and house of Commons until 1801. Although the British were fairly heavy-handed and oppressive of the Irish. It got MUCH worse after the 1800 Act of Union.

And your Belgium argument is invalid. Belgium is not an natural ethnic nation, it is an artificial nation created for political reasons that is Unstable. There are dutch in the north and french in the south. The people had no sense of being "Belgian" before the 1800s. The Irish people have been Irish, felt Irish, since before the time of Christ.

Irish is an ethnicity (proven by genetic studies), a language, a culture.

Belgian is an artificial political construct.



Plus I have UHV goals/UP for Ireland (still figuring out UU/UB)
Spawn in Dublin at start

UP: The Power of Saint Patrick: Halved building costs for Catholic buildings, Catholicism spreads to all founded cities.

UHV1: Have a Catholic Church in Every City by 700 AD (by this year Ireland was solidly catholic - UP will prevent this from being Impossible)

UHV2: Ensure there is no Protestantism or foreign cities in Ireland in 1798 (United Irishmen Rebellion - attempt by the Irish to regain control of their country - failure led to Act of Union) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Rebellion_of_1798)

UHV3: Kill 50 English Troops (represents Irish/British wars)

 

[SanJose]

change uhv2: to build brewery(irish pub if UB) in all cities and found 1 or 2 colony in NA
P.S. Longplay with small civs not interested

 

[swinnend]

Look, you can fit maybe two cities in Ireland. So you propose to build two churches to achieve UHV?
All you will be doing is fighting off the English, which is accurate enough, yet hugely boring.

Austria or Burgundy can not be considered ethnicities, yet they do belong here. An ethnicity, to the extent it can be defined, is not a political entity.

 

[JoeKony]

As long time forumwatcher who like very much this mod, i please ireland want for adding in. Make game more fun.

 

[PinkPallin]

Ireland had no influence on the rest of Europe. That's why I vote no.

 

[lukeadamson9]

Ireland had no influence on the rest of Europe. That's why I vote no.

Look, you can fit maybe two cities in Ireland. So you propose to build two churches to achieve UHV?
All you will be doing is fighting off the English, which is accurate enough, yet hugely boring.

I can definitely see where you're coming from, and these are valid points. Yet, I still think it should be added in. Sure it may offer little in terms of space, but that could be seen as an entertaining challenge to some. Europe had many small nations that, historically, added little to the grand scheme of things. Having Ireland present would be, if anything, more of a compliment to history and gameplay (to the right player). Plus, Irish culture is amazing. So long as it doesn't add too hefty a strain on the mod, I say go for it.

 

[Hamir]

Sorry, i think it's best represented by Indy cities.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

Sorry, i think it's best represented by Indy cities.

Says the British guy.

 

[Dumanios]

This does seem like an interesting idea.

UP works, but I have a different idea for an Irish UHV.

1: Celtic Christianity - Have a Catholic Church in every city by 700.

2: Celtic Union - Control the provinces of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and The Isles in 1200. (Very similar to one of Scotland's goals from RFCE++, but I suppose it works)

3: Celtic Empire - Control two Colonial Projects in 1600. (Based off the theory that Irish monks discovered the New World.)

 

[The Flame8]

Says the British guy.

So you're obviously Irish. So what effect would Ireland being established have on this game? It did nothing but try to fight off the British, so it really is better off just being Indy.

The civs that really need to be added is a split in Germany as it was never united until late in the timeline. Saxony and Bavaria were both independent and using the RFCE ++ HRE mechanism independent German civs would actually work to make Central and Western Europe more interesting.

 

[Vortsukoto]

While the Irish did not do a great deal of direct action in the politics of Europe besides antagonizing the English/British and being conquered by the Vikings, Irish Mercenaries and recruits played a big role in many armies of the post-Renascence eras. French, German, English, and even American armies of the 17th through 19th centuries had Irish regiments.

This suggests to me that while Ireland doesn't need to be it's own Civ, a few Mercenary Only Irish units would not go awry. If there was a Celtic minor religion/culture that would hang around in the British Isles and Brittany, that might also work to denominate the cultural group.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

Why is Ireland being mentioned before Scotland or Wales?

 

[DC123456789]

Scotland was already in RFCE++ and was already practically guaranteed to be added.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Nation is an artificial political construct.

ftfy.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

Pre English Anglo-Saxon civ? Split the Norse into Danes and Norwegians?

I agree about Germany, but really you'd have to split it into a least 5 civs just to represent the major princes...
Before Ireland I'd be thinking about many others. Ireland's history is tragic, but it's far from the only European culture to experience injustice or have it's language & culture decimated....
The following all fill in important niches & most importantly, would have decent, challenging UHV's.

Serbia? (The largest Balkan Empire, counterbalance for Venice/Greeks, rich history)
Sicily? (The only state in Italy prior to the disastrous unification of the penisula)
Vandals? (a must for African variety, more piracy, and to develop north Africa)
Roumania? (Late-game spawn)
Almohads? (post Cordoba civ, who generally are very weak ingame & often convert to Catholicism, weak AI Arabs)
Anglo-Saxons? (to provide a great challenge for the Norse, another pagan-civ, allows for Norman conquest event)
Norse/Danes? (frequently fought each other, settled/invaded different areas)
Switzerland (perhaps as AI, but hugely important and could serve a great banking mechanic)