Should LGBT themes be discused in sexual education class for children?

[Lord of Elves]

Perhaps you could explain why the one is absurd and the other is rational?

The generally-upheld standard seems to be that sexuality is a choice, and therefore homosexuality shouldn't be chosen because it happens to fall within what is considered offensive or unnatural by the Old Testament.

It's a very convenient, and repugnant, "the problem's not me it's you" approach to the issue.

 

[civ_king]

Citation needed.

http://www.avert.org/gay-people.htm
Actually according to their data it appears 2.6% or less is homosexual

http://www.gallup.com/poll/6961/what-percentage-population-gay.aspx
based on Gallup data one could conclude that acceptance of homosexuality might be because they think a massively larger percentage is homosexual (estimates of those polled averages ~20%). If people realized that homosexuals make a significantly smaller demographic then they think they do acceptance might be a bit less

Apple, meet orange.

Wow, you walked into that one

 

[JollyRoger]

http://www.avert.org/gay-people.htm
Actually according to their data it appears 2.6% or less is homosexual

From your link:

It is very difficult to calculate even the approximate number of gay people. Even when estimating roughly how many people are gay in any place, the following points have to be kept in mind:1

How many people we estimate are homosexual depends on how we define homosexuality.
Many more people experience sexual feelings for someone of the same sex than report recent sexual experience with someone of the same sex.
Because homosexuality is stigmatised it is more likely to be under than over reported.

 

[bhsup]

I was simply saying they're unrelated. Two of them (women and blacks) are based on genetics, while another is based on choice. Trying to link them together is disingenuous at best.

 

[Lord of Elves]

The generally-upheld standard seems to be that sexuality is a choice, and therefore homosexuality shouldn't be chosen because it happens to fall within what is considered offensive or unnatural by the Old Testament.

It's a very convenient, and repugnant, "the problem's not me it's you" approach to the issue.

I was simply saying they're unrelated. Two of them (women and blacks) are based on genetics, while another is based on choice. Trying to link them together is disingenuous at best.

And there it is.

For the record, limiting racial prejudice towards Africans is a very Anglo-American specific way of viewing racial relations in history, just as representing the history of racial relations and disparities as between Turks and Arabs or Armenians would be particular to the point of exclusion.

 

[JollyRoger]

I was simply saying they're unrelated. Two of them (women and blacks) are based on genetics, while another is based on choice. Trying to link them together is disingenuous at best.

Michael Jackson seemed to be able to choose to become a white woman.

 

[civ_king]

From your link:

in 2000 2.6% of males and 2.6% of females reported a same sex partner in the last five years

 

[bhsup]

And there it is.

For the record, limiting racial prejudice towards Africans is a very Anglo-American specific way of viewing racial relations in history, just as representing the history of racial relations and disparities as between Turks and Arabs or Armenians would be particular to the point of exclusion.

What in the hell are you smoking? My remark was in direct response to the comment of "Children are already taught not to be prejudiced against black people and women in school." I have no idea where Turks, Arabs, or Armenians came into this.

 

[JollyRoger]

in 2000 2.6% of males and 2.6% of females reported a same sex partner in the last five years

From your link:

Because homosexuality is stigmatised it is more likely to be under than over reported.

 

[Lord of Elves]

What in the hell are you smoking? My remark was in direct response to the comment of "Children are already taught not to be prejudiced against black people and women in school." I have no idea where Turks, Arabs, or Armenians came into this.

It was a nitpicky comment about the tendency among many Americans to represent race relations across the world as being inherently capable of being described in the predominantly Anglo-American white-black racial divide.

You might have done better to address the previous point that the apparent argument against homosexuality is that sexuality is a choice, and somehow the choice to be homosexual (assuming for the sake of argument that it is in fact a choice) is invalid.

 

[civ_king]

From your link:

I doubt almost 50% not reporting plus having a same sex partner in the last five years doesn't necessarily make them homosexual, maybe just bisexual

 

[JollyRoger]

while another is based on choice.

If you had sex with a man, would it by choice?

I doubt almost 50% not reporting plus having a same sex partner in the last five years doesn't necessarily make them homosexual, maybe just bisexual

My point is you are ignoring all the cautions in your own link and going with the lowest possible numbers as if it were gospel. Also, your link contains stats from 1940s & 1950s America where self reporting was around 13%.

 

[bhsup]

Well then you should have nitpicked Gustave's comment, not mine. I simply responded to him in the same vein. Anyway, MY point was that to compare a choice to genetics is invalid and I won't give any such comparison any validity.

As for someone making that choice, I've posted plenty of times on here that my personal feelings about it aside, I really don't give a damn if my male neighbor wants to play hide the salami with another guy. I just fail to see why children should be taught about it. Gays are forcing more and more crap down society's throat and I'm quite frankly getting tired of it. Almost makes me regret a previous thread I started on it.

 

[Vordeo]

Think teaching LGBT issues in sex ed is a good idea in principle, though I do wonder exactly which issues they'll be teaching (how to prevent STD spreading aside).

I learned in Sunday school when we covered Genesis.

Genesis before or after Peter Gabriel left?

If it was before, you had the best Sunday school ever.

 

[Lord of Elves]

As for someone making that choice, I've posted plenty of times on here that my personal feelings about it aside, I really don't give a damn if my male neighbor wants to play hide the salami with another guy. I just fail to see why children should be taught about it. Gays are forcing more and more crap down society's throat and I'm quite frankly getting tired of it. Almost makes me regret a previous thread I started on it.

Homosexual teenagers don't deserve the same education of the risks of unsafe sex as heterosexual ones do, simply because acknowledging in the most basic, neutral and objective terms that people of a different sexual orientation than your own exist, is vaguely offensive or shocking to you?

Before you fly up the flag of privacy and your right to not be forced to listen to opinions that contradict your own we are discussing the public school systems, which are (if they are to discuss safe sex at all) functionally obligated to address the issue. Unless you want to make some sort of argument that the wages of sins are death and the wages of homosexuality are venereal disease.

 

[Japanrocks12]

Gays are forcing more and more crap down society's throat and I'm quite frankly getting tired of it. Almost makes me regret a previous thread I started on it.

You've got the order of causation wrong on that one. Society has mistreated gay men and women for so long that they've felt the need to clear their names of some of the horrible falsities and stereotypes that they've been associated with with educational programs like the ones being discussed in this thread. To see it any other way is to be incredibly self-serving and short-sighted.

 

[Behind The Mask]

Gays are forcing more and more crap down society's throat and I'm quite frankly getting tired of it. Almost makes me regret a previous thread I started on it.

On that note one could very well argue that there are well over a dozen other groups trying far more vigorously and vocally to force fare more crap down societies throat...

I understand that you have stated a personal feeling and for that I will not argue with you for that is your feeling; I will not try and discredit your for having one.

However, I will at least ask for you to agree that as a defence (being, a group trying to force its ideals upon society) this particular case can be argued in just about every other venue there is to offer.

 

[bhsup]

"If you are going to have sex, make sure whoever is sticking something in a hole uses a condom". Vague and works for all situations. There, see, don't even have to mention homosexuality.

And upon reading what I just typed just also reinforces why I think abstinence only sex ed is the way to go. No sex before marriage. And don't give me that "they will just do it anyway" crap. That's a copout by people who just don't give a about discipline and raising their kids right.

 

[Japanrocks12]

It is patently absurd to argues that gays have hijacked every public forum to spread their ideology. People making that argument are either especially sensitive to viewpoints and lifestyles that they don't agree with, or they are literally crazy. Gays aren't forcing crap down your throat, you're imagining that they are because it gives you a wellspring to summon up righteous indignation and anger for the purpose of arguing on the internet.

 

[JollyRoger]

Gays are forcing more and more crap down society's throat

I think you are doing it wrong.

That's a copout by people who just don't give a about discipline and raising their kids right.

I have less grandchildren than Sarah Palin.