should unique bonuses be shown in the tech & civic trees

[fy00sh]

One small thing that's been bugging me for a while in Civ 6 is how some but not all Civ- or leader-unique bonuses get specifically mentioned in the tech and civic trees.

For example, the Castles technology specifically mentions that it grants culture to the Great Wall improvements and gives an extra spy to Catherine de Medici, and Sanitation mentions Stepwells getting +1 housing; however, Pottery doesn't mention giving the Cree a trader and +1 trade route capacity, Rapid Deployment doesn't mention the boosts it gives to Outback Stations and Haciendas, etc.

If I'm not forgetting anything, I think every base-game Civ has bonuses like these listed in the tech & civic trees whereas no DLC Civs get this treatment, and I'm guessing it's probably so they don't have to code the game to change what shows up based on what Civs you have purchased and enabled... but still, the inconsistency just feels weird to me. At this point, why not take out all previous mentions of unique bonuses? Why does Poundmaker have to remember his Pottery trader while Catherine gets reminded about her Castles spy?

And yes I understand this is a super minor nitpick, not saying Firaxis has ruined my gaming experience or anything, just wanted to know if other people noticed or cared.

 

[kaspergm]

I remember first time I played Indonesia, I bee-lined Square Rigging at no insignificant cost in terms of general setbacks, only to realize that the unique Indonesian frigate was in fact not unlocked with the normal frigates, but instead in the culture tree. So yeah ...

 

[Banazir864]

IMO, what they should do is show the bonuses for your current civ/leader and omit the bonuses for the others (ideally also omitting any generic bonuses that don’t apply to your civ/leader). But if that’s too much work, they should at least make it consistent (i.e. everyone or no one).

 

[Sostratus]

The stuff in the tech tree is automatically generated.
It depends on how it’s implemented. I can’t exactly recall which is which but imagine the difference between “if the cree have pottery, +1 trade route” vs “when you unlock pottery, if you are the cree, +1 trade route”

the latter will be attached to pottery itself. The former will be floating around somewhere else.

This is true for a lot of stuff- civilopedia side bars especially. They seem to lift from game tables. Generic modifiers are probably too hard to parse for automatic generation.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I'm tired of seeing +1 housing to stepwells and +1 spy at castles no matter who I play

 

[fy00sh]

Speaking of Indonesia and Civlopedia sidebars, I just remembered that Kampungs get an additional housing bonus later on after unlocking them, but it doesn't get specified what the bonus is and when you get it anywhere in-game, not even in the Civlopedia (for anyone wondering it's an additional +1 housing at Mass Production).

Kinda similar to Stepwells not having their +1 housing at Sanitation not mentioned in the Civlopedia, but again, this one does get mentioned in the Tech tree :/

IMO, what they should do is show the bonuses for your current civ/leader and omit the bonuses for the others (ideally also omitting any generic bonuses that don’t apply to your civ/leader). But if that’s too much work, they should at least make it consistent (i.e. everyone or no one).

Yeah I agree, didn't think of omitting irrelevant bonuses but it'd make a lot of sense if like when you're playing Norway the "navigating ocean tiles" bonus got moved over to shipbuilding (unless it does and I just don't remember)

 

[Kwami]

Even better, they should highlight unique bonuses and make them glow so that you know where they are. I'm tired of opening the civilopedia to see which techs improve my haciendas and whatnot. Plus, highlighting is fun!

 

[wesplaysciv]

Still haven't built a stepwell, but have regretted mousing over the Sanitation "star" hundreds of times.
On a semi-related note, I'd love if the game made it easier to see what era the unit belongs to - I think it's not even in the Civlopedia, you have to go back to the tech or civic tree to find it. I guess it's only really important for Great Generals and Great Admirals, but still.

 

[ShakaKhan]

Agree with others that seeing Catherine's extra spy and stepwell's bonuses but not others is annoying.

IMO, what they should do is show the bonuses for your current civ/leader and omit the bonuses for the others (ideally also omitting any generic bonuses that don’t apply to your civ/leader). But if that’s too much work, they should at least make it consistent (i.e. everyone or no one).

I see where you're coming from and the OCD in me agrees with you, but I'd extend it to all civs in the current game. To me, seeing the bonuses of others is more important than seeing your own, as I'd usually take note of where all the bonuses I'm going to receive on turn 1, but I often overlook when others get their bonuses, I could really use the notification that "Oh no- Shaka is about to get his impi and make corps out of them, so I need to act now or forever hold my piece (peace.)"

Then again, if they included those in the game but excluded others, it would give away which civs are in the game at turn 1... so maybe having them all would be best.

 

[bengalryan9]

Still haven't built a stepwell, but have regretted mousing over the Sanitation "star" hundreds of times.
On a semi-related note, I'd love if the game made it easier to see what era the unit belongs to - I think it's not even in the Civlopedia, you have to go back to the tech or civic tree to find it. I guess it's only really important for Great Generals and Great Admirals, but still.

Same with Wonders. Kind of a pain that (AFAIK) you can't easily tell what era they actually belong to, especially if you're playing someone like China or France who get bonuses to wonders from particular eras.

Speaking of wonders, it would be nice if they were crossed out in the tech/civics tree if they've already been built, too.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

The stuff in the tech tree is automatically generated.
It depends on how it’s implemented. I can’t exactly recall which is which but imagine the difference between “if the cree have pottery, +1 trade route” vs “when you unlock pottery, if you are the cree, +1 trade route”

the latter will be attached to pottery itself. The former will be floating around somewhere else.

This is true for a lot of stuff- civilopedia side bars especially. They seem to lift from game tables. Generic modifiers are probably too hard to parse for automatic generation.

The issue is in how THEY implemented it. What you see on the star is nothing more than a check if "does Tech_X has a description, if yes, add the star".

The descriptors for the technologies is where the information lies. Some are mentioned (like the if Catherine, gain a spy with Castles), others are afaik omitted.

They should go back to how they handled it in Civ 5 where 1 star = 1 special ability.

 

[Kwami]

Still haven't built a stepwell, but have regretted mousing over the Sanitation "star" hundreds of times.
On a semi-related note, I'd love if the game made it easier to see what era the unit belongs to - I think it's not even in the Civlopedia, you have to go back to the tech or civic tree to find it. I guess it's only really important for Great Generals and Great Admirals, but still.

Actually, era matters for all units, wonders, and sometimes buildings. Policy cards often affect only specific eras.

 

[Infixo]

If I'm not forgetting anything, I think every base-game Civ has bonuses like these listed in the tech & civic trees whereas no DLC Civs get this treatment, and I'm guessing it's probably so they don't have to code the game to change what shows up based on what Civs you have purchased and enabled...

It is because they are lazy. The star icons used in the base game are the most lazy way of implementing extra effects in the tech tree. It would be really very easy to just add more of them for various DLCs. And yet, they didn't do it.

I added this functionality in Better Tech Tree - it lists all these kind of bonuses not based on descriptions, but on Modifiers used in them.

 

[FedorWin]

@Infixo Is there a version of your mod that does only this, without changing the default layout of the trees?

 

[comatosedragon]

I wish they would remove the "major" or "minor" adjacency bonus text, and just replace it with raw numbers. I'm talking about leader descriptions too.

 

[oSiyeza]

One small thing that's been bugging me for a while in Civ 6 is how some but not all Civ- or leader-unique bonuses get specifically mentioned in the tech and civic trees.

For example, the Castles technology specifically mentions that it grants culture to the Great Wall improvements and gives an extra spy to Catherine de Medici, and Sanitation mentions Stepwells getting +1 housing; however, Pottery doesn't mention giving the Cree a trader and +1 trade route capacity, Rapid Deployment doesn't mention the boosts it gives to Outback Stations and Haciendas, etc.

If I'm not forgetting anything, I think every base-game Civ has bonuses like these listed in the tech & civic trees whereas no DLC Civs get this treatment, and I'm guessing it's probably so they don't have to code the game to change what shows up based on what Civs you have purchased and enabled... but still, the inconsistency just feels weird to me. At this point, why not take out all previous mentions of unique bonuses? Why does Poundmaker have to remember his Pottery trader while Catherine gets reminded about her Castles spy?

And yes I understand this is a super minor nitpick, not saying Firaxis has ruined my gaming experience or anything, just wanted to know if other people noticed or cared.

It is not a superminor nippick. Either the game UI presents accurate information, or it doesn't. If it doesn't it just shows lack of care, and lazyness.

I think this attitude is reflected in all aspects of the design, from the poor balanced mechanics we see more often as the dev cicle goes on (soothsayer, lack of disaster progression and aid requests in the apocalypse mode, the unsuficiently tested gran colombia...), patches that instead of tunning the current mechanics just add permanent penalties that kind of break the game (Im looking for you DF penalty per enemy capital, even if it is from a loyalty flip and regardless the era...), the still non functioning world builder...

All in all, it just reflects a poor practise from a company that does not care for the product they release as much as it should.

In a big company like Fxs, this laziness is not laziness. This is an intended anti-customer policy to give us less value for our money.

 

[Infixo]

@Infixo Is there a version of your mod that does only this, without changing the default layout of the trees?

What is the “layout of the trees” for you? BTT just adds icons to the tech / civic boxes. If you refer to the fact that those boxes are shifted, then it is Real Tech Tree, a separate mod, which I use all the time, but you don’t have to.

 

[Naeshar]

I wish they would remove the "major" or "minor" adjacency bonus text, and just replace it with raw numbers. I'm talking about leader descriptions too.

Oh yes, you forgot the "standard" adjacency bonus. minor +0.5, standard +1, major +2. very confusing, because the standard district adjacency (from other districts) is not "standard"

I think the additions in DLCs should be mentioned in the stars, even though it is extra work for dev team, there are no systemic issues. Simply replace the text or add a star where it is due. The text is not generated based on modifiers, it is a set piece.

I think it might not be hard to adjust the descriptions to mention only civs already in game. Though this would have to be dynamic as you are not to know who is in game without meeting them and if someone is eliminated, the bonuses should disappear. That would be, I think, an ideal solution.
If Qin is not in game, why mention the great wall culture bonus at castles?

 

[comatosedragon]

If Qin is not in game, why mention the great wall culture bonus at castles?

Just so you can't divine who the opposing AI will be by process of elimination.

IMESHO; Everything should be visible, at all times in the 'pedia, with stars like you suggested where necessary.