Should villages receive yield bumps from technologies?

[Edaka]

Hey there. I'm currently working on decluttering the tech tree - there are currently some techs unlocking more than 5 things at once, which is why you can't see all of them at a glance, without hovering over the tech. One such example are the two tech bumps that villages get: +1(fresh water) on Printing Press and +1 (not fresh water) on Railroad. In the first case it indirectly makes the unlocking of the World Congress "invisible", because it's the 6th thing unlocked by the tech, not counting uniques. In the second case the bump itself is "invisible", since it's one of the 7 things unlocked.

That's where I asked myself: do villages need the +1from techs, anyway? Firstly, they receive a great indirect buff from railroads, jumping from +1 +1 to +2 +2 if a road (railroad) passes over them and connects two cities. Secondly, they benefit from the same upgrade when a trade route passes over them starting from the Industrial era and onwards. Thirdly, I've caught suggestions of nerfing villages recently, so this is an area, albeit hardly significant, that could be looked at.

I propose removing those tech buffs. That would free up some space on the tech buttons, and it doesn't seem like these buffs are necessary anyway. What do you think?

 

[tu_79]

Hey there. I'm currently working on decluttering the tech tree - there are currently some techs unlocking more than 5 things at once, which is why you can't see all of them at a glance, without hovering over the tech. One such example are the two tech bumps that villages get: +1(fresh water) on Printing Press and +1 (not fresh water) on Railroad. In the first case it indirectly makes the unlocking of the World Congress "invisible", because it's the 6th thing unlocked by the tech, not counting uniques. In the second case the bump itself is "invisible", since it's one of the 7 things unlocked.

That's where I asked myself: do villages need the +1from techs, anyway? Firstly, they receive a great indirect buff from railroads, jumping from +1 +1 to +2 +2 if a road (railroad) passes over them and connects two cities. Secondly, they benefit from the same upgrade when a trade route passes over them starting from the Industrial era and onwards. Thirdly, I've caught suggestions of nerfing villages recently, so this is an area, albeit hardly significant, that could be looked at.

I propose removing those tech buffs. That would free up some space on the tech buttons, and it doesn't seem like these buffs are necessary anyway. What do you think?

G is considering nerfing villages, so it may be a good time to ask this question.

 

[Stalker0]

Personally the +1 freshwater bonus I never notice for villages. I usually focus my farm clusters there when possible.

 

[Stalker0]

Personally the +1 freshwater bonus I never notice for villages. I usually focus my farm clusters there when possible.

 

[Grabbl]

G is considering nerfing villages, so it may be a good time to ask this question.

But I think that the problem with villages is more that they start to strong. So, it would be more appropriate to lower the base yield perhaps.

 

[Stalker0]

Personally the +1 freshwater bonus I never notice for villages. I usually focus my farm clusters there when possible.

 

[Gazebo]

I think stalker is having a stroke.

 

[ElliotS]

Personally the +1 freshwater bonus I never notice for villages. I usually focus my farm clusters there when possible.

Edit: Personally the +1 freshwater bonus I never notice for villages. I usually focus my farm clusters there when possible.

 

[Edaka]

But I think that the problem with villages is more that they start to strong. So, it would be more appropriate to lower the base yield perhaps.

I agree, but lowering the base yields doesn't rule out removing the +1 from techs. This bump is insignificant and unnecessary due to two other bumps (roads/railroads and trade routes). As such, I find that it only clutters the tech tree. Also, it's relatively hard to play around, because while I actually find it fun having to account for the two aforementioned conditions, having to also factor in the fresh/no fresh water aspect of the game for maximum efficiency suddenly seems like a lot more accounting for not a whole lot of reward.

 

[Mad Madigan]

I've always wondered: Is the granularity of separating tile yield boosts to between fresh water and non-fresh water even really necessary? I am of the opinion that it is not, and that all of these boosts due to tech unlocks should be consolidated together so that unlocking, say Fertilizer for example, would give +1 to all farms regardless of access to fresh water. The only time I ever really bother with checking for sources of fresh water is when playing as The Netherlands or when I'm trying to settle tundra cities, and I feel that dividing yield boosts between these is just cluttering up the tech trees for no good reason.

 

[Gazebo]

I've always wondered: Is the granularity of separating tile yield boosts to between fresh water and non-fresh water even really necessary? I am of the opinion that it is not, and that all of these boosts due to tech unlocks should be consolidated together so that unlocking, say Fertilizer for example, would give +1 to all farms regardless of access to fresh water. The only time I ever really bother with checking for sources of fresh water is when playing as The Netherlands or when I'm trying to settle tundra cities, and I feel that dividing yield boosts between these is just cluttering up the tech trees for no good reason.

I agree. That's been on my todolist for ages. No time like the present.

G

 

[balinte]

I think stalker is having a stroke.

WTH

 

[Stalker0]

WTH

Hehe I agree. Did I make such an argument in the past in favor for freshwater villages that my going against them was seen as “mad”

Edit: oh I see what you are referring to now. I did in fact have a lot of trouble with the website esrlier. Sorry about thst

 

[Stalker0]

I agree. That's been on my todolist for ages. No time like the present.

G

Depends on which way you go...especially with farms.

If you want to make +1 food to all farms on civil service...I can see that. I think waiting until fertilizer is too long...as right now fresh water farm triangles are a key thing

For mines and villages I have no strong preference, I agree the divide is not that important right noe

 

[Grabbl]

I think that it makes sense for farms, but not so much for other improvements (like in vanilla, for one time ).

 

[Gazebo]

Depends on which way you go...especially with farms.

If you want to make +1 food to all farms on civil service...I can see that. I think waiting until fertilizer is too long...as right now fresh water farm triangles are a key thing

For mines and villages I have no strong preference, I agree the divide is not that important right noe

The fact that we have so much more 'interactivity' with the map through improvements now means that we don't really need the tech distinction. I'd rather simplify the bonuses and have 3 tech yield changes per improvement type (instead of 5-6 on fresh/not-fresh). When was the last time the fresh/no-fresh distinction really affected anyone's playstyle? I'm guessing not recently.

G

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Quarries should benefit from the water need change, they were penalized before for fresh water.

 

[Rekk]

The fact that we have so much more 'interactivity' with the map through improvements now means that we don't really need the tech distinction. I'd rather simplify the bonuses and have 3 tech yield changes per improvement type (instead of 5-6 on fresh/not-fresh). When was the last time the fresh/no-fresh distinction really affected anyone's playstyle? I'm guessing not recently.

G

I would say freshwater farms are still a major playstyle altering component, but nothing else.

 

[Legedi]

The fact that we have so much more 'interactivity' with the map through improvements now means that we don't really need the tech distinction. I'd rather simplify the bonuses and have 3 tech yield changes per improvement type (instead of 5-6 on fresh/not-fresh). When was the last time the fresh/no-fresh distinction really affected anyone's playstyle? I'm guessing not recently.

G

I'd love to not have to deal with this distinction any more. I honestly can't keep track of most of them, and never change my improved game plan based on them. It would also improve the feel of starts that are barren of rives much more.

 

[pineappledan]

I agree that slimming down the number of tech improvements by combining fresh/no fresh improvments is a good idea. I think the one on farms should stay, but I can't think of any other one I would want kept.... Maybe the lumber mill/logging camp ones (obligatory canadiana)

Where do you put the tech unlocks now though? move them all back to the no-fresh tech, or find some tech which is mid-way between the two?