Should we implement the new Constitution now?

[Shaitan]

The New Constitution has been approved. This poll will clarify if it will be implemented now or if it will become active when the Code of Laws has also been approved.

This poll will be active for 48 hours, closing on July 3 at 12:46 GMT.

 

[Shaitan]

Items to note:

We are just beginning to go over the Code of Laws. This has a greater amount of content than the Constitution. We spent an entire term working out the Constitution. Hopefully the Code will be much faster as it is predefined by the Constitution but it could take a considerable amount of time before the Code is ready to be approved.

The Constitution defines everything about the game at the highest level. It was written to broad stroke govern the game as we play it. It is possible to play the game with only the rules in the Constitution.

 

[disorganizer]

to add to your point that it works:
... but the old constitution will be gone and the rules also. so details will have to be worked out on the fly or be set by leaders without approval.

 

[Shaitan]

Absolutely not. We have our history to fall back on. Why would leaders set details without approval?

 

[disorganizer]

If there are no rules, there are no rules for setting rules too. ;-)
If we implement the new constitution, the old one is gone except otherwise referred to in there.

 

[Shaitan]

Article J: Elected officials must plan and act according to the will of the people.

 

[disorganizer]

I just wanted to add my sentiments in here... i still think its dangerous.

 

[Eklektikos]

Since the new constitution specifies the Judiciary as part of the Demogame but doesn't specify what they actually do, would the plan be to hold off the creation of that body until the implementation of the Code Of Laws even if the new Constitution is put in place? If not then I think the Constitution should wait until we have the Code ready.

 

[Shaitan]

Article F: The Judicial Branch will be formed of three leaders, one who is tasked with upholding the laws (Judge Advocate), one who is tasked with defending the citizenry (Public Defendant) and headed by the Chief Justice, who will have the power and authority of both lower offices.

We do not have the game history for these positions as we have with the rest of the Constitution but it should not be difficult to agree in principle on their powers, pending the Code's approval.

 

[donsig]

I am voting to implement the constitution now. Yes, disorganizer, if we do this without first enacting a code of laws then we will lose all the rules in the old constitution that are not in the new one. That is exactly the reason why I think we should activate the new constitution now!

 

[Chieftess]

As President, I ask all citizens to support the poll and the implementation of the new Constitution.

 

[Cyc]

I do support the implementation of the new Constitution, although I agree with Eklektikos' view that we will, in certain areas, require the COL. Therefore I am voting to hold off the implementation until the COL is complete and ready to be put along side the Consitution in functionality.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Cyc
I do support the implementation of the new Constitution, although I agree with Eklektikos' view that we will, in certain areas, require the COL. Therefore I am voting to hold off the implementation until the COL is complete and ready to be put along side the Consitution in functionality.

The Code of Laws will never be complete! It must change and adapt. Laws will come and laws will go. By coupling the enacting of the new constitution to the passing of a set of laws we are taking a risk that we will end up with a poor set of laws that were passed in haste just to get the new constitution in place.


The Code of Laws does not have to be born fully grown. The laws can be built as the need for them arises.

 

[Cyc]

I understand what you're saying Donsig, but if we develop laws as we need them, the Laws never will be finished. The COL will just be a shopping cart for laws. We will pick and choose according to preference. I think both ways have merit, but holding off is safer.

 

[Shaitan]

Well, this is a bit of a pickle. An even split with one abstention. Should we flip a coin?

I suggest a repoll that includes a plan of implementation. The major objection to using the new constitution now is the lack of laws to guide us. As a plan of implementation, I suggest the following:

Items in the current working Codes will be accepted as active standards until replaced en mass by the Code of Law and Code of Standards.
Chief Justice and Judge Advocate positions will be filled by the Senior At-Large Council and At-Large Council respectively.
Positions of Public Defendant and governor of capital province to be filled according to the new standards.

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[Cyc]

So, basically, all proposed laws will, in effect, start now as standards? This would remain our guiding COL until a blanket approval (or even individual approval) was granted by a poll? Sounds good to me. If I'm reading this right.

 

[Shaitan]

Exactly right, Cyc.

 

[Eklektikos]

Shaitan's latest proposal sounds good to me too. One thing though: would it not be more appropriate that one of the judicial positions filled by a councilmember-at-large be the public defender? It sounds a bit closer to the original remit than the other two.

 

[Shaitan]

The Public Defender is the most "passive" of the judiciary positions. That is, the official tasks for that office are more reactive than the others. Not that it's a critical issue as the Chief Justice is set up to fill in for either of the other two positions as needed. Perhaps we should just give Bill the choice of which position he's more comfortable in?

 

[Eklektikos]

I'll go along with that