Sid Meier's Civilization IV Info Center

[Vael]

Why Vael? What comments? Some of the ideas? Some of the criticisms? So on?

Just read some of the recent posts. If I were an AI programmer at Firaxis and I read things like this I would be very offended. How would the people here like it if they went to somewhere and heard people - who have never worked on anything like their job - talking about how their company should hire some new people to do their job for them because they're so terrible at it? Or how easy it is for them to do their job 'right'. Not only that, but it isn't as though the Firaxis employees can even defend themselves due to the way PR and marketing works in the video gaming industry.

If I were making a game to be played by these very people I would not be very inspired to deliver something great, even if I was capable of it.

 

[Drakan]

If someone like SirPleb was a development advisor the ai might be too good...

Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!

If this was true we would never be able to win a game, even in ... Chieftain

No really, it would be great to hear that SirPleb is advising them with the AI strategies, with all due respect to FIRAXIS.

 

[dh_epic]

I think that's a fair statement Vael. I think that we sometimes spend so much time making huge demands for Civ 4 that we forget that the team is highly capable, and we forget to praise the things in Civ 3 that came across well.

To me, I think the AI could be *equally* as hard as it is now. Except the difference is the TYPE of challenge.

Instead of having to out-do the AI in terms of efficiency and production, (e.g.: at higher levels the AI has a 50% production bonus so you have to use every exploit in the book to speed up your production)... it comes back to pure strategy. (e.g.:at higher levels the AI DOES hit you with huge stacks of units and highly opportunistic wars.)

 

[MeteorPunch]

@vael

You have to be kidding. People like us log 100x more hours actually playing the game so we should have a say as to how the game runs. Honestly, let them stick to coding the game, etc. but you couldn't say 1-5 ai programmers at firaxis can balance a game any better than the "experts" over here. They are not gods. Constructive criticism and ai tips, etc should be openly welcomed.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Instead of having to out-do the AI in terms of efficiency and production, (e.g.: at higher levels the AI has a 50% production bonus so you have to use every exploit in the book to speed up your production)... it comes back to pure strategy. (e.g.:at higher levels the AI DOES hit you with huge stacks of units and highly opportunistic wars.)

This is how I wish the at was...introducing "smarter" strategies with difficulty...well, maybe a mix of both.

 

[dh_epic]

I wouldn't even mind if the AI cheated... so long as they cheated in a way that leads to actual CONFLICT. Not, like, overrunning me with 20 units to my 3, but having 20 units to my 18, and just so happening to know where my weakest city is.

But the AI at higher levels isn't even a tougher opponent. It's an easy opponent with a tough handicap.

 

[EMan]

Yeah, at higher levels it's like competing against an 800-Pound Gorilla..........All brawn and no brains!

 

[the100thballoon]

Yeah, at higher levels it's like competing against an 800-Pound Gorilla..........All brawn and no brains!

precisely! Everytime I try to beef up the AI, they do nothing or attack some AI neighbor. I have been in maybe one AI-instigated war. A while back I played in an online simul moves game. Another player (human) out of the blue rushed my territory with massive amounts of units. I freaked and I actually had to think and strategize to save my then-primitive civilization. (BTW, I eventually fought off the intruders and immediately returned the favor, taking city after city until I reached his capital where I received a desperate diplomacy session to attempt to get me to stop.... which I did.... for lots of money and a quasi-WWI disarmament treaty. hehe) THIS IS WHAT I WANT IN AN AI: BRAINS. (even though they be made of alphanumeric characters )

Just read some of the recent posts. If I were an AI programmer at Firaxis and I read things like this I would be very offended. How would the people here like it if they went to somewhere and heard people - who have never worked on anything like their job - talking about how their company should hire some new people to do their job for them because they're so terrible at it? Or how easy it is for them to do their job 'right'. Not only that, but it isn't as though the Firaxis employees can even defend themselves due to the way PR and marketing works in the video gaming industry.

If I were making a game to be played by these very people I would not be very inspired to deliver something great, even if I was capable of it.

Firaxis needs (and should be able to handle) constructive criticism from its loyal fans.

 

[Civrules]

If Firaxis didn't handle constructive criticism, they would never have put all the negative things from Civ III in a pile and try to fix them.
They said that they have identified elements of the game which are not fun, all that came from fans' criticism, obviously.
But obviously, there are limits to our constant "needs," as dh_epic has said.

And as to the amount of Firaxians surfing here, yeah, I have seen some people from Firaxis, but the more consistent and visible one I can see very often is Soren.


BTW, posted update #22. Some info from Snoopy's post.

 

[the100thballoon]

If Firaxis didn't handle constructive criticism, they would never have put all the negative things from Civ III in a pile and try to fix them.
They said that they have identified elements of the game which are not fun, all that came from fans' criticism, obviously.

And as to the amount of Firaxians surfing here, yeah, I have seen some people from Firaxis, but the more consistent and visible one I can see very often is Soren.


BTW, posted update #22. Some info from Snoopy's post.

Please update your sig. I often use that to judge whether a new update/feature has been revealed.

BTW, Thanks for the new info!

 

[Civrules]

Please update your sig. I often use that to judge whether a new update/feature has been revealed.

Gah!!! Sorry 'bout that. To be honest, I also notice that I very often fail to update my sig in time.
I'll try to be more consistent with the sig in the future.

Also, thank Snoopy for the info, I just collect it.

 

[the100thballoon]

Gah!!! Sorry 'bout that. To be honest, I also notice that I very often fail to update my sig in time.
I'll try to be more consistent with the sig in the future.

Also, thank Snoopy for the info, I just collect it.

I will! Thanks for the effort to update ur sig! This thread is one of the most valuable threads on CFC right now.

 

[Shabbaman]

Civilization IV will be using NDL’s Gamebryo 3D graphics engine. Firaxis’ PC hit, Sid Meier’s Pirates! also uses it.

Pirates2 is a great game, but it also painfully demonstrates what the gamebryo engine isn't capable of: fluent land battles (in which the game probably is most alike of civ). I do hope they'll fix this for civ4, since I don't feel like buying a $150 graphics card just to play civ4. I'm not playing civ for the graphics anyway.

 

[EmperorGandalf]

Wow, I havent bothered to get civIII, but i might want to try civ4 out...
sorry, but i didnt read this whole thing, (i would rather play a game of civ two rather than read a 7-page thread) so id like to ask if theres any more news.

 

[Civrules]

Wow, I havent bothered to get civIII, but i might want to try civ4 out...
sorry, but i didnt read this whole thing, (i would rather play a game of civ two rather than read a 7-page thread) so id like to ask if theres any more news.

These pages are mostly discussions.
The first page is the article itself and that's where all the info is located and posted at.

 

[yoshi]

Pirates2 is a great game, but it also painfully demonstrates what the gamebryo engine isn't capable of: fluent land battles (in which the game probably is most alike of civ).

Explain "fluent." You mean slow frame-rate?

If so, that will kill Civ4 for many people just like it killed Civ3 for many people (and Civ3 at was just 2D).

 

[Biggles]

Explain "fluent." You mean slow frame-rate?

If so, that will kill Civ4 for many people just like it killed Civ3 for many people (and Civ3 at was just 2D).

I don't understand you.
There was nothing slow about Civ3, or Conquests.

 

[dh_epic]

I'd agree with you Biggles... except that playing on someone else's computer, you might say otherwise. I can't say for sure.

 

[the100thballoon]

Explain "fluent." You mean slow frame-rate?

If so, that will kill Civ4 for many people just like it killed Civ3 for many people (and Civ3 at was just 2D).

Civ3 animations are not slow by any means. The only thing that is ever slow is the game engine calculating crap in between turns.

 

[warpstorm]

Pirates2 is a great game, but it also painfully demonstrates what the gamebryo engine isn't capable of: fluent land battles (in which the game probably is most alike of civ). I do hope they'll fix this for civ4, since I don't feel like buying a $150 graphics card just to play civ4. I'm not playing civ for the graphics anyway.

The Gamebryo engine is quite capable of doing fluid land battles. I've been using it for quite a while, and it is quite capable of doing RTSs and FPSs not just TBS games (look at Kohan 2 or Freedom Force vs the 3rd Reich or Empire Earth 2 or DAOC for other examples of the engine in practice). It's not the engine; it's what you do with it in your game.

A modern $50 video card should be adequate to run most any game based off of the Gamebryo engine.