Sid Spaceship Game
- Thread starter Spoonwood
- Start date
Yes. I would love to. I've got work this summer, so I might need some flexibility with time, but I'd love to play a tough SG, something I haven't done in over two years.
What settings are you thinking? I've found that 80% water large continents produces a very interesting sid game, because it is crowded with AIs who all don't have much land, and we won't have all that much less. But we could experiment with something else. I would prefer to not do archipelago.
What settings are you thinking? I've found that 80% water large continents produces a very interesting sid game, because it is crowded with AIs who all don't have much land, and we won't have all that much less. But we could experiment with something else. I would prefer to not do archipelago.
Maybe if we assemble a good team, we could try that. I don't know if there's any way other than what 7+1 did, but it'd be worth trying.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
'The Magnificent 7 plus 1' - a classic game.
They did a cross-continent great library capture, catapulting them into the industrial age, from where they took on a runaway in an extremely dramatic fight. The only problem is that if that runaway, their neighbor, had build the GL, they couldn't have won. Sid on standard pangaea is so ridiculously hard that I don't know if there's another way to beat it. Supposedly doing archer rushes is a good strategy, but that kind of thing is for a solo game, since you have to keep trying over and over again so many times.
The tech pace is just brutal. I think being expansionist or seafaring is almost necessary just because it takes super early contacts to keep up in tech early on. By the time your warriors have everyone contacted, they'll all be past writing, and there will be no trading opportunities. The hardest part about pangaea is the tech pace.
But military-wise, it's easier in a sense. Obviously, it's still harder than continents or archipelago because if the AI is ahead in tech, they'll have better units. But you do have the advantage of being able to pick a target and create helpful alliances. On continents, you often only have one choice, and your ally will be on the opposite side. Of course, they're still fighting on your behalf, but it can be tactically helpful to have an adjacent civ as an ally.
With these thoughts in mind, I would suggest the Hittites. I know, you're about to bust out laughing, but the scouts can keep us up in tech by getting contacts early enough that there will still be trading opportunities, and being commercial will give us alphabet to trade with. Also, there's an ancient age UU that only requires TW. On lower levels, you wouldn't even think about not having to research HBR as an advantage, but on Sid, it's actually pretty significant. Commercial will also make our cities more productive (I've noticed that first ring cities don't have a corrupted 3rd or even 4th shield with a commercial civ on standard map, even on Sid).
Of course, this is all assuming we'd be doing 60% standard pangaea, which I don't think we are.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I agree with Own's assessment of the Commercial trait; it really comes into it's own at the higher levels. But Expansionist? It has a very short shelf-life at this level, and contacts is about all it has to offer - I doubt that the huts will give much of use.
So, what about the Iroquois? Lowered corruption, fast growth, and a half-decent UU make it a top choice for me.
You know, I could almost be tempted to play this one....
So, what about the Iroquois? Lowered corruption, fast growth, and a half-decent UU make it a top choice for me.
You know, I could almost be tempted to play this one....
Own said:
I'd forget expansionist and just build the Great Library instead. I SGLed in the referenced Sumeria game, but I know I built it in I think 2 games with the Maya (both abandonded) vs. 7 scientific opponents. The AIs research and build so fast that the ToA cascade hits before they learn Literature... or at least that's my minimal experience.
I like the Iroquois idea, but I sort of worry about not having cheap libraries, univerisities, reserach labs and a free tech. But, mounted warriors would sure be nice, since the AIs tends to grab resources super fast. They might also help give us a nicely timed GA.
I'd like to give 60%, wet/normal, warm/temperate, pangea a go and even if we lose, we'll probably learn something. Max or min opponents? Max opponents implies a faster ancient age, but more resources and luxuries will lie around for potential trading/capturing, and the AIs will at least start out smaller. Min opponents implies a slower ancient age, but less resource and luxuries, and pretty much all the AIs will get big and have the ability to do research later on. Also, do we want scientifc/good research opponents, or more like the Zulu, Mongols, Arabs, Aztecs, etc. who can't research as well, but generally act more aggressively. We could also do 5 or 6 opponents of course... if we play a standard map... we could play another size map if someone has a strong preference. I don't want any barbarians and would like minimum aggression.
I favor the Iroquois with 7 weaker research opponents... like the Zulu, Mongols, Aztecs, Arabs, Celts, Japan, and Inca. Max opponents so the AIs have plenty of targets to attack while we develop. No one scientific, no one industrious since industrious AIs develop quickly, and no one with Alphabet.
It helps you keep up in tech from the beginning, which helps you later. I mean, you gotta take the hurdles one at a time. There is no way alphabet will be a useful trading tool if you need warriors to contact people, and capturing the GL will be your only hope. But if you neighbor is a runaway and built the GL...
Seafaring also offers early contacts. But you can't get landlocked AIs, you have to build your own dingy, and it's even more useless than expansionist on pangaea, because you don't get hut bonuses. The commerce bonus is nice at the beginning but not all that useful since we'd just do the min run on writing anyway, and its significance wanes as the game goes on. OTOH, it gives you alphabet and frees up another trait, which could be scientific (the Byzantines) to help you with transitions from age to age (which can be extremely hard at sid). But their UU is useless. Carthage isn't a terrible choice with industrious and numids, who are actually quite good units with artillery.
The Iroquois are of course a great choice, but they're a tad over-played. I guess with there only being one previous recorded standard pangaea maximum opponents Sid win (actually with India), maybe now is a better time than ever to use an over-played civ. Build a ring of cities, pray for horses, attack a neighbor with MWs, and then evaluate what to do next. Not a bad strategy.
Civ possibilities:
-Iroquois
-Sumeria
-England
-Byzantines
-Carthage
-Hittites
-India (hard to not include them considering)
-Others I haven't thought of?
Edit on crosspost: I guess I never really think about the GL. I generally try to avoid it if I can, but I'd be down for building it. But gifting it away and taking it back is an exploit IMO (unless it's a GOTM or HoF game).
I'd want max opponents. I'd be fine with random or with hand-picked. Since we're going for the GL, no civs starting with alphabet is the most important criterion, followed by no scientific civs. I don't think there are seven civs that aren't one of industrious, seafaring, commercial, and scientific, so we might have to include some industrious ones. They have so many free workers anyway that it almost doesn't matter, and it'd be nice to meet an AI early that we could get Masonry from while we still have a monopoly on Alphabet, so we can get a pre-build going.
I. Larkin
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,417
On Sid we played Sumeria (Pangea) and Iroquis (Continent). For domination Iro looks stronger. It also important for SS VC agri + commercial (Sci farms + more non corrupted Cities).
To Modern we will have Libs and Uni anyway and 3 free techs are not that much. Are there other Agri + Commercial then Iroquois?
We never get TGL on Sid but successfully captured it always.
To Modern we will have Libs and Uni anyway and 3 free techs are not that much. Are there other Agri + Commercial then Iroquois?
We never get TGL on Sid but successfully captured it always.
thetrooper
Misanthrope
- Joined
- May 24, 2004
- Messages
- 9,084
I. Larkin said:
Unfortunately, no. Wonderful combo.
I rolled some starts. Settings for all three were standard, 60% pangaea, warm, wet, 5 billion, no barbs. Opponents are Zulu, Mongols, Japan, China, Egypt, Arabia, and the Celts. Two industrious and one agriculture isn't terrible.
I have us as the Iroquois, the Sumerians, and just for kicks, the Hittites.
Hittites
Sumeria
Iroquois
I admit that I have some spoiler info on the Iroquois start, so if we decide on that start, I shouldn't play first. But I know enough to know that it's better than it looks.
I have us as the Iroquois, the Sumerians, and just for kicks, the Hittites.
Hittites
Sumeria
Iroquois
I admit that I have some spoiler info on the Iroquois start, so if we decide on that start, I shouldn't play first. But I know enough to know that it's better than it looks.
Own said:
Spoonwood said:
1. Zulu-Militaristic Expansionist
2. Mongols-Militaristic and Expansionist
3. Aztecs-Militaristic and Agricultural
4. Arabs-Expansionist and Religious
5. Celts-Agricultural and Religious
6. Japan-Militaristic and Religious (The Wheel and Ceremonial Burial)
7. Inca-Expansionist and Agricultural (Pottery and Masonry)
I. Larkin said:
I'd recommend we have a cautious approach to science farms. It's faster to buy a courthouse and then a library (and a police station and a university later) *granted that we have the cash*... at it produces more beakers overall. As an example I had 4 turn research on Satellites or The Superconductor in my Deity Huge game about a month ago without any science farms (by which I mean size 6 towns with no buildings and just scientists), but plenty of proper buildings (and I irrigated my core), and 5 turn research on most modern era techs. At this level, we can plenty of gpt from the AIs... even weaker ones. I don't mean to say no to science farms all together. If we actually end up with cities half around the world, of course we'll want them there, but please don't take it for granted that we want a science farm just because the city appears extremely corrupt initially. Then again, if we don't have cash, or rushing something else seems more profitable, then we'll wait for the city to grow to size 6 and go with a science farm instead of buying an improvement. I agree lower corruption will help us get beakers in outer cities.
I. Larkin said:
No, but a few other tribes have the same starting techs... namely the English, the Portuguese, the Hittities, and the Dutch.
Own said:
I don't see agricultural mattering much, because they have an 8 food box (sans granary) from size 1 to 6, and a size 16 food box size 6 to 12. Sid AIs may have extra workers, but that's across the border. For an industrious tribe *each* extra worker gets its jobs done faster.
I want a cow in our inital city radius (meaning we can use it on turn 1). I'll run MapFinder with the Zulu, Mongols, Aztecs, Arabs, Celts, Japan, and Inca as our opponents, with us as the Iroquois.
Not sure if I like this start and what I did or not. I went worker-granary (I like that). Then when the Aztecs met us, I made this deal:
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1244724440.jpg
Two slaves sounded two good to pass up, and WC was cheaper than BW, and we didn't undersell Alphabet that way.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1244724441.jpg
The capital is already a 4-turn settler factory and doesn't need anymore development until later.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1244724440.jpg
Two slaves sounded two good to pass up, and WC was cheaper than BW, and we didn't undersell Alphabet that way.
http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo146/Spoonwood792000/1244724441.jpg
The capital is already a 4-turn settler factory and doesn't need anymore development until later.
