Silk02 - Passive Aggressive Pangeaic Cultural Domination

[silk1976]

Silk02 is starting up soon! (Silk01 is currently wrapping up wrapped up, with a space race victory in hand. Although now that I said that, Zara will probably overtake our two vote buffer for a UN diplo victory Scratch that. Dual nuked the crap out of him from orbit! Details here).

The primary goal in Silk02 will be a domination victory via culture. That means:

• No taking over cities militarily. ALL city ownership flipping must come via diplomacy, cultural revolutions, or other 'peaceful' means.
• Spies can be used to wreak any havok necessary on enemies - spreading culture, destroying enemy cultural generating buildings, etc. Thus, the 'passive aggressive' description
• Military units are to be built only for self defense for barbs, or DoW's on us.
• We have to be careful not to win a cultural victory accidentally!

I'm thinking of going with the following game variables:

• Pangea map
• Monarch difficulty. EDIT: likely will go with Prince, due to overwhelming opinion that this game will be enough of a PITA as it is.
• Creative leader (not sure which one though)
• Using Dresden's BTS Unofficial Patch 0.21 - due to the 'Spread Culture' mission bug in BTS 3.17. The patch can be found here, and mechanics information on the mission can be found here

I'll look at getting this patch set up, and rolling a couple starts this evening, so we can discuss options. Having a few potential starts and having the group pick one seems to be popular - especially with the Boff SG series. This will also give time for people to join in and offer any suggestions (such as pangea not being a good map, or someone other than a creative leader, etc)

Although Liq has TM'd the phrase 'Questionable Play' for the Boff SG series - I think it'll definately apply here.

Roster:
- Silk1976
- Dr Yes
- Dualmaster
- Cripp7
- Nictel
- PeteyP (alternate).

 

[Dr Yes]

I'm happy to participate if you can use a Newby. I love cultural games, because I hate warfare.
A good cultural leader would be Gilgamesh, because of his Protectionist trait. Will make defense a little easier.

 

[dualmaster]

Count me in ...even though this might be doomed to failure. I actually tried a game like this, but didn't do too well without solver's patch . Maybe we can do better.

Map: Pangea sounds good, standard/epic is my preference

Strategy: I think we need to REX big time to get as much land peacefully as possible. Getting the Great Wall would be good to try and pop some GSpies (espionage will have to be a big part of the game). Also, any wars will be defensive so GW will give us +100% gg points in our borders.

Potential leaders:
Zara - +25% monuments? Quick stonehenge anyone?
Gilgamesh - creative/protective - strong axe unit, strong defenders, cheap and early courthouse for REXing (I think he would be pretty fun to try)

Rule clarification: If we are DoWed, can we enter enemy territory? I'm thinking along the lines of sending pillaging parties out since we can't take cities. (I think this should be an option).

 

[cripp7]

Would like to join also, never done this kind before and I've read a few RPCs that did that. Looks like it would be very educational. Also, with that patch, will it affect my other game saves? How can you switch back and forth?

 

[Dr Yes]

Would like to join also, never done this kind before and I've read a few RPCs that did that. Looks like it would be very educational. Also, with that patch, will it affect my other game saves? How can you switch back and forth?

Yeah, that's a good point. I just installed Dresden's patch and the BUG mod. I love them both, particularly the BUG mod because it gives a lot of important warnings on diplomacy, city growth, imminent health and happiness issues.

 

[dualmaster]

For BUG, use a standard install (NOT mod). Hopefully this time the host starts the game that way....

It looks like Solver's patch can be installed in the civ directory or as a mod. I assume we don't want it as a mod for same reasons as BUG. What options are being installed (i.e. remove barrage from tanks? 50 civs?).

 

[Dr Yes]

See http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=287712

 

[silk1976]

Have no fear - I learned my lesson of installing BUG as a standard install (although halfway through Silk01 I switched from standard to mod install, and it worked fine - so I'm not sure why it caused problems). I also set "Full Screen" in the .ini file to 'ask' - so that SG's I could play in windowed mode (helped with posting turnset updates), and in my single player games, I could go full screen mode.

Actually - now that I re-read your post, Dual, did you mean use a mod and NOT a standard install?

Based on Dr Yes's link, it seems like the patch can be installed as a mod, and thus not affect other games. I'll look at testing that out - but that shouldn't preclude anyone else from testing if they can get it done sooner

I originally debated whether this type of game would be possible. But then I found a SG thread where it was done successfully. Unfortunately I dont have the link at the moment - I'll look for it. But it gave me hope this might be possible.

Didn't think about combining with the protective trait. Good idea.

For DoW - I never thought about using units for pillaging, but my original thought was solely defense. So another way of putting it - if out unit can enter enemy lands without DoW, then its fair game. Military units cannot; however, spies can.

Yes, will be a heavy espionage game. And culture. Both things I pretty much SUCK at (what else is new?)

Lets first get a list of potential leaders, and their pro's and con's. We already have Gilgamesh and Zara as possibilities. Who else?

 

[silk1976]

Oh - another thing to consider: should we turn cultural victory off? Or would it be more fun to try and avoid accidental cultural victory? (three words I never thought I'd utter in succession)

 

[cripp7]

Oh - another thing to consider: should we turn cultural victory off? Or would it be more fun to try and avoid accidental cultural victory? (three words I never thought I'd utter in succession)

probably would help, don't need an accidental culture win.
I'd prefer using a mod install, same thing with BUG. It'll interfere with other games. Also, I didn't know about the 'ask' option in the .ini, I like that better!

 

[Liquidated]

A very good reference is from the civ master Sulla himself over at His Site..

A few things to consider:

Prince level, nothing higher

Hand pick the enemy civs, exclude the creatives off the bat. If trying for a religion, stack the deck a bit and remove anyone that starts with mysticism.

Consider the Always Peace/Conquest option. Completely different flavor of game.

Map size is critical. Larger maps will absolutely kill you in City Maintenance alone.

If trying to flip towns via culture. Try and plant towns 3 tiles away in a Cardinal Direction (as a rook would move in chess)... culture is much stronger along a straight path from the originating town than it is one tile off.

Culture slider is very powerful in this game so consider William (cre/fin) as a leader as generating more raw commerce = more slider culture.

Fun variant for sure.

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[dualmaster]

Prince level, nothing higher

Hand pick the enemy civs, exclude the creatives off the bat. If trying for a religion, stack the deck a bit and remove anyone that starts with mysticism.

Consider the Always Peace/Conquest option. Completely different flavor of game.

Prince level is good idea. That means we'll live a little longer before losing .
Hand picking enemies is a sensible idea, but I'm not overly excited about doing that. Same thing with Always Peace. I'd rather lose a challenging game than win a specially arranged game.

Actually - now that I re-read your post, Dual, did you mean use a mod and NOT a standard install?

Based on Dr Yes's link, it seems like the patch can be installed as a mod, and thus not affect other games. I'll look at testing that out - but that shouldn't preclude anyone else from testing if they can get it done sooner

The game should NOT be started with BUG as a mod. That requires everyone else to have BUG installed as a mod - however the standard install allows someone without BUG to still open/use the file.

It sounds like Solver's patch is best as a mod?

 

[silk1976]

A very good reference is from the civ master Sulla himself over at His Site..

A few things to consider:

Prince level, nothing higher

Hand pick the enemy civs, exclude the creatives off the bat. If trying for a religion, stack the deck a bit and remove anyone that starts with mysticism.

Consider the Always Peace/Conquest option. Completely different flavor of game.

Map size is critical. Larger maps will absolutely kill you in City Maintenance alone.

If trying to flip towns via culture. Try and plant towns 3 tiles away in a Cardinal Direction (as a rook would move in chess)... culture is much stronger along a straight path from the originating town than it is one tile off.

Culture slider is very powerful in this game so consider William (cre/fin) as a leader as generating more raw commerce = more slider culture.

Fun variant for sure.

Cheers!
-Liq

Huh. I never knew that this type of game was so 'popular' - in that it had been tried in the past and a whole slew of dedicated material about the methodology has been posted before. Sulla's page could prove to be valuable - thanks for that!

While walking the dog, a couple things you (or Sulla, from the link) mentioned did occur to me:
- Is monarch going to be too difficult for this?
- Religion. I didn't think of founding as many as possible - but it did occur to me that it might be worth founding at least one of them.
- Culture slider. This game could require interesting use of the culture slider, which is typically ignored in favor of cash or research (and sometimes espionage). In this game, we'll have good reason for all four things the slider can provide.
- Financial leader. Would it be better for financial leader - to have a better time dealing with city maint? Or would something like organized - where the city maint advantage is instant - be better?

 

[silk1976]

Prince level is good idea. That means we'll live a little longer before losing .
Hand picking enemies is a sensible idea, but I'm not overly excited about doing that. Same thing with Always Peace. I'd rather lose a challenging game than win a specially arranged game.

I had the same thoughts about enemies and always peace. Seems kinda like cheating, in a way. But I also realize I'm pretty naive about this kind of game.

The game should NOT be started with BUG as a mod. That requires everyone else to have BUG installed as a mod - however the standard install allows someone without BUG to still open/use the file.

I think I'm going to have to play around with this - because in Silk01 I installed it with the standard install - not as a mod.
Maybe the answer lies in having the BUG mod file installed in the documents and settings assets folder, as opposed to in the civ installation folder assets?

 

[PeteyP]

I would like to join. I have no problem being an alternate. I'm actually reading through your Silk01 SG and am enjoying it. This type of game looks interesting and it could really help my game with the diplomacy stuff, which I tend to struggle with.

 

[silk1976]

I would like to join. I have no problem being an alternate. I'm actually reading through your Silk01 SG and am enjoying it. This type of game looks interesting and it could really help my game with the diplomacy stuff, which I tend to struggle with.

Put you in as an alternate. Nictel was lurking Silk01 and expressed interest in the next SG. So I am holding the last spot for him to see if he definately wants in.

Besides, it looks like I've opened a can of worms on this idea - so it'll probably be a couple days before things settle down and we get rolling.

 

[Ozbenno]

Huh. I never knew that this type of game was so 'popular' - in that it had been tried in the past and a whole slew of dedicated material about the methodology has been posted before. Sulla's page could prove to be valuable - thanks for that!

Sulla's game was based on munterpipe's Cultural Domination SG. There are also the four Cultural Conquest games, RB29a, RB29b, RB29c and the only succesful one RB29d.

ruff-hi tried this variant as well but I can't find it on his page.

It has been tried a few times

 

[silk1976]

Sulla's game was based on munterpipe's Cultural Domination SG. There are also the four Cultural Conquest games, RB29a, RB29b, RB29c and the only succesful one RB29d.

ruff-hi tried this variant as well but I can't find it on his page.

Ruff-hi - that sounds familiar. I think maybe it was his game I saw - and they pulled out a win, right? Whichever game it was, I saw someone win a cultural domination via peaceful city flipping, and that gave me hope it could be done.

It has been tried a few times

I'm not sure how to take this. If tried = attempted, then we may be in for disappointment

 

[Ozbenno]

I'm not sure how to take this. If tried = attempted, then we may be in for disappointment

Well Sulla and ruff-hi (as far as I can remember) won their SP games and Munterpipe's SG won as well, hasn't been attempted in BtS though!

Only 1 of the 4 cultural conquest games won though.

Good luck!

 

[silk1976]

Well Sulla and ruff-hi (as far as I can remember) won their SP games and Munterpipe's SG won as well, hasn't been attempted in BtS though!

Only 1 of the 4 cultural conquest games won though.

Good luck!

Well, $#!^!



:suicide: