Sioux or Iroquis

[Richelieu]

There has been a lot of talk about putting back Spain in CIV3 : The Inquisitor as a special unit ? :flamedevi

 

[Zachriel]

Britannica:

Iroquois Confederation also called Iroquois League, Five Nations , or (from 1722) Six Nations confederation of five (later six) Indian tribes across upper New York state that during the 17th and 18th centuries played a strategic role in the struggle between the French and British for mastery of North America. The five Iroquois nations, characterizing themselves as “the people of the longhouse,” were the Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca. After the Tuscarora joined in 1722, the confederacy became known to the English as the Six Nations and was recognized as such at Albany, N.Y. (1722).

Tradition credits the formation of the confederacy, between 1570 and 1600, to Dekanawidah, born a Huron, who is said to have persuaded Hiawatha, an Onondaga living among Mohawks, to abandon cannibalism and advance “peace, civil authority, righteousness, and the great law” as sanctions for confederation.


The political sophistication and strategic influence of the Iroquois qualify them for inclusion as a Civilization of merit.

 

[Rhye]

Here it is.
I've taken the best map available: the kitten v.7
I've changed a little things: for example I've made impossible to reach America with galleys, I've opened the dardanelli strait, and a few other lesser corrections (which are from MY point of view, anyone can disagree)
I've added Spanish civ with (not animated) leaderhead of Felipe II and special unit Conquistador (replacing Zulus)
I've added Turkish civ with (not animated) leaderhead of Suleyman and special unnit Jenissary (replacing Babylonians)
I've changed Joan of Arc in Louis XIV and Catherine in Lenin (with their leaderheads)
I've changed Iroquois in Sioux.
I've changed civ colors

If anyone is interested, I'll gather the files, write a readme.txt with the credits and upload it on a page.

 

[muppet]

Why do you need to ask? Just put it up in the completed modpacks section.

I'm sure there are people that are looking forward to playing with the Spanish and Sioux in the game.

Totally aside, I think they maybe chose Iroquois instead of Sioux to represent the Native Americans because Iroquois sounds so much nastier than Sioux.

 

[sealman]

Originally posted by Zachriel
Britannica:

Iroquois Confederation also called Iroquois League, Five Nations , or (from 1722) Six Nations confederation of five (later six) Indian tribes across upper New York state that during the 17th and 18th centuries played a strategic role in the struggle between the French and British for mastery of North America. The five Iroquois nations, characterizing themselves as “the people of the longhouse,” were the Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca. After the Tuscarora joined in 1722, the confederacy became known to the English as the Six Nations and was recognized as such at Albany, N.Y. (1722).

Tradition credits the formation of the confederacy, between 1570 and 1600, to Dekanawidah, born a Huron, who is said to have persuaded Hiawatha, an Onondaga living among Mohawks, to abandon cannibalism and advance “peace, civil authority, righteousness, and the great law” as sanctions for confederation.


The political sophistication and strategic influence of the Iroquois qualify them for inclusion as a Civilization of merit.

This is most likely the reason that the Iroquois were included in the game. Good work, Zachriel!

 

[Mud]

It seems like the game designers wanted to include a people or group that originated from each of the major continents or geographical areas. Thus:

North America: Iroquois
South America: Aztecs
Africa: Zulus
Middle East, North Africa: Persians
Europe: Germans, French, English
Eurasian steppes: Russians
Asia: Japanese, Chinese
Indian sub-continent: Indians

Then there are the "classical" empires:

Greece
Rome
Babolonia
The United States
Egypt

As if the designers wanted to include famous pockets of empire in the game, although they may not fall strictly into the categories above.

Why the Iroquois over the Sioux or any other tribe? Zachriel's explanation is as good as any, although you might consider the fact that there aren't too many Iroquois left to complain about the stereotypical depiction of their culture in Civ3...

 

[Immortal]

Zac's explaination rings true in my ears;

The native american tribes that existed around here had settlements and culture that still exists today (although its in museums now, their artwork is amazing)

 

[Genuis]

Totally aside, I think they maybe chose Iroquois instead of Sioux to represent the Native Americans because Iroquois sounds so much nastier than Sioux.

Really? I think Sioux sounds nastier, with that silent X in there. Maybe they chose the Iroquois because their name is harder to spell.

 

[Genuis]

~I wish I had a Kryptonite cross, because then you could keep both Dracula AND Superman away.

Why would you want to keep Superman away? Wouldn't he be trying to save you? Unless it was his evil clone...

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by allhailIndia
I was a bit surprised to find the Iroqouis as a civ in Civ3. Basically they were an Eastern American tribe who put up a fight but, were quite different from the other Indian Tribes, who also fought the White man. Although I may not be an expert on American Indians, I would like to know whether the Sioux or the Iroquis are better representatives or whether both should be included.(Hey if you can have Americans and British as separate civs, why not separate American Indian CIvs)

Apart from their role in several white man's wars, the Iroquois built a mighty empire of their own covering a territory of the same order of magnitude as many a 'classic' civ tribe. They kicked the Sioux' asses anywhere they went. At the height of their power, around 1680 - yes, they prospered AFTER European contact - the Iroquois were the major power in Norh America.
The Iroquois had a working participative democracy and further provided the colonists with innovative agriculture, local currency, roads, an extensive trade network with luxury goods (furs!) and a confederative constitution, as well as women's rights (many a captive white female would voluntarily stay because life among the Iroquois was much better for them). After contact they largely adopted the Jesuit religion and became skilled in musketeering.
The Iroquois empire dwindled because of the sheer number of colonists, and they made the mistake of fighting on both sides in the USA independence war which caused the league to fall apart and lose much of their hunting grounds.

Still, today there are more Iroquois than ever with a separate government and privileges within the USA and Canada. The Mohawk are famous as construction workers who are unafraid of heights.

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by vulture
Opps ya If I were to pick a N American Tribe. It would have to be the Cherokee. At least they had a written language with an alphabet.

The Iroquois, as many Amerind tribes (the Kiowa are a good example, too), did however have a written glyph language. Laws, treaties and records of important events were recorded on wampum belts; messages could be written on less durable surfaces.

The Cherokee alphabet was developed much later as a project to help survive / remember their culture.

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by fantasy_sports

Civilizations have cities and writing, so the Indian tribes were not civilization.

As for writing, see above.

The Iroquois (before European impact) lived in towns of semi-permanent (long)houses of up to 4,000 people, comparable to the size of standard European towns at the time (and note that at the time even London was almost entirely made of wood). Some of the towns were relocated every 20 years or so if the soil had deteriorated; oftentimes they later returned to the same site. The towns also had community buildings, guesthouses, granaries, saunas, gardens and elaborate palisades.
They certainly weren't nomads; agriculture was their main way of providing food.

Later several Amerind tribes were forced to the prairies by population pressure from the east and by necessity returned to a somewhat more nomadic way of life, although they had winter camps in the same place each year.