SirPleb, Going for Sid

[AutomatedTeller]

The scientific golden age does NOT work, in any version of conquests - oh, it will look like it's working, but it doesn't actually apply the beakers. Kind of sucks, cause it would have made a nice choice (wonder or GA?)

 

[JamesCivFan]

Hello this is my first post in these amazing forums. I would like to ask a question to SirPleb about corruption. How exactly did you keep it so low and had this massive gpt income with Monarchy? Did you micromanage EVERY city, in every turn and assigned taxmen? I was playing on monarch on a small map and with Continents (70% water) and had about 40-50 cities and the most recent ones were corrupted very badly. Luckily, I built the FP and kinda formed a 2nd core.

But still the cities near the FP were badly corrupted. So I was just wondering how did you manage having this massive income, while keeping your citizens happy (I have had 7 luxuries and was trading for the 8th) and researching with the slide on 50-60% (I presume). Thanks in advance!!

 

[Whomp]

Hello this is my first post in these amazing forums. I would like to ask a question to SirPleb about corruption. How exactly did you keep it so low and had this massive gpt income with Monarchy? did you micromanage EVERY city, in every turn and assigned taxmen? I was playing on monarch on a small map and with Continents (70% water) and had about 40-50 cities and the most recent ones were corrupted very badly. Luckily i built the FP and kinda formed a 2nd core.

But still The cities near the FP were badly corrupted. So i was just wondering how did you manage having this massive income, while keeping your citizens happy (i have had 7 luxuries and was trading for the 8th) and researching with the slide on 50-60% (i presume). Thanks in advance!!

James--Welcome to CFC!

You've bumped an old yet classic thread. I'm not sure if SirPleb posts at CFC much anymore but maybe we will see him pop in for civ5.

Regarding your questions, you can get many answers to your questions in the civ3 discussion forum but I will try to give you some of the basics here.

He did micromanage each of his corrupt (and his core too for that matter) cities. In civ3 parlance, the corrupt cities become "tax or science farms". The idea is to convert corrupt city citizens to scientists or tax men (without starving them). This alleviates the need to keep the corrupt city citizens happy through the luxury slider and they generate income or science instead.

The only cities that should benefit from the luxury slider are the core cities. By doing this you don't need to add any happiness through the lux slider and instead can run max science slider (better utilizing library and uni science multipliers). This is especially true when you have 7 luxs and markets in your core. Markets do the same as an income/happiness multiplier and are very valuable in the core.

In the corrupt cities the objective is to create as much food as possible (food does not corrupt)so your workers irrigate every corrupt city tile in sight. When a new citizen is born they are converted to a scientist or tax man.

For more in depth discussion, start a thread in the civ3 forum. You'll get plenty of help since this is probably not the place for this type of discussion since it's a discussion about SirPleb's efforts in a Sid Hall of Fame game. Quite a story I might add.

 

[SirPleb]

Thanks Whomp.

JamesCivFan, it is as Whomp has described. The trick is to convert excess food in corrupt cities to support specialists who boost your science, income, or production in those cities. Sometimes it is helpful to boost production first (civil engineers, once you have the tech) to quickly build Marketplaces in them, which will increase the happiness from 7 or 8 luxuries dramatically, allowing the corrupt city to get bigger and still be happy.

Whomp, yes indeed, I might be back for Civ5. Too early to tell. I'm not wild about its use of Steamworks (don't want that on my main machine) and the inclusion of some DLC at day zero (sets things up for disturbing possibility of diverging variants, and seems just plain wrong anyway.) But the key thing for me will be the gameplay. I want a game with a lot of very carefully balanced tradeoffs which take time to understand and balance because none is overpowering and all can be useful, a game where attention to many detailed factors as well as to strategy can pay off, and a game which can be played and won in different styles. The pre-release info doesn't (can't) give any insight about how the game will feel in these regards. Just have to wait till fall and see

 

[templar_x]

at a first glimpse i thought i saw the ghost of Hamlet´s father. but no! - it´s SirPleb!!!

we you, "ancient elite", i hope you liked the tribute in the GOTM100.

templar_x

 

[bluejay]

Whomp, yes indeed, I might be back for Civ5. Too early to tell. {omission} But the key thing for me will be the gameplay. I want a game with a lot of very carefully balanced tradeoffs which take time to understand and balance because none is overpowering and all can be useful, a game where attention to many detailed factors as well as to strategy can pay off, and a game which can be played and won in different styles.

SirPleb, how do you feel about Civ4 in this regard? So far I haven't taken the time to get into Civ4 and am wondering about waiting for Civ5, for which it's too early to tell, as you say.

 

[SirPleb]

at a first glimpse i thought i saw the ghost of Hamlet´s father. but no! - it´s SirPleb!!!

we you, "ancient elite", i hope you liked the tribute in the GOTM100.

templar_x

I only pop in occasionally and didn't know about the GOTM100 tribute game. I've just gone and read all of its threads and I like it a lot! That is such a neat thing to do. Thanks templar_x, and

SirPleb, how do you feel about Civ4 in this regard? So far I haven't taken the time to get into Civ4 and am wondering about waiting for Civ5, for which it's too early to tell, as you say.

I never did try Civ4. At first I held back on principle. I was upset by the way Firaxis ended their Civ3 work and although one sale isn't much to them it seemed to be the only way I could take any kind of action which mattered to them, if they knew it or not. Later I read a number of threads debating Civ3 vs. Civ4 and the points made in favor of Civ3 seem like things which would matter to me more than the points made in favor of Civ4. So I never did try it.

 

[Megalou]

Hello SirPleb! I hope to see you back too some day. I've especially enjoyed your spoilers, which were both pleasant and informative.

Maybe the "lack of stacks" in Civ5 will bring about some kind of novelty. Apart from that I have not really delved into the previews. I prefer to wait for what's coming and I'm afraid I'll buy the poke even if there is a pig in it. I did buy Civ4, but soon gave it away. The primary reason was not disappointment but addiction, however. I didn't play long enough to become fluent in Civ4. But I do wonder if there was any real novelty in it. In Civ3 the cultural boundaries was brilliant. What can compare with that in Civ4? Religions? Slightly more diversified military? The question is skeptical but by no means rhetorical. I have no idea how some players suddenly managed huge scores in Civ4 and so there was certainly some new kind of challenge. But it would also be a big challenge to play chess reasonably well if you changed it just slightly, e.g. allowing the pawns to take 3 steps.

 

[JamesCivFan]

Thank you all for your answers. I am still stuck with emperor. I am trying on a standard map with version 1.22 of C3C. When i am fluent with it i will go to the next level etc etc. Until i am ready for sid hopefully.

Also , a last question. I read in some topics about the forbidden palace that its befefits changed in 1.22 . So can anyone tell me (or direct me to a topic that says) where is the best place to build it cause i am getting confused with all these changes. Thanks in advance

 

[Whomp]

Thank you all for your answers. I am still stuck with emperor. I am trying on a standard map with version 1.22 of C3C. When i am fluent with it i will go to the next level etc etc. Until i am ready for sid hopefully.

Also , a last question. I read in some topics about the forbidden palace that its befefits changed in 1.22 . So can anyone tell me (or direct me to a topic that says) where is the best place to build it cause i am getting confused with all these changes. Thanks in advance

James--the FP is discussed in this thread in the civ3 general discussion forum. In C3C, it really doesn't matter where you put the forbidden palace other than it's in a city that can be highly productive. That means close to the core and possibly with a courthouse.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=318711&highlight=Forbidden+palace

SirPleb--thanks for the insight and great to see you around. It would be a shame if we don't get to see you play civ5 because you're such a great player and writer.

It will be interesting to see what comes back with Civ5. I'm struggling with the same thoughts regarding Steam.

 

[EMan]

Well, Civ 5 is out (but won't run on my machine)........And, I hope my old friend SirPleb is in!?..........Or, are you gonna make me come to Canada just to see you again?

 

[SirPleb]

Well, Civ 5 is out (but won't run on my machine)........And, I hope my old friend SirPleb is in!?..........Or, are you gonna make me come to Canada just to see you again?

Hi EMan!

I was tempted to not answer to force you to visit us again

I haven't tried Civ5. I've been reading posts about it over the past couple of days and think I will wait to see if the first major update fixes a lot of things.

It looks like a typical bug-riddled Firaxis release. The threads talking about bugs have the usual apologists saying stuff like "if you know anything about programming you know that all programs have bugs." But as you know I'm a developer who disagrees. I've written a huge amount of bug free and very nearly bug free code. If programming were inherently this bug-riddled we'd never see games like the Nintendo Zelda series.

Worse than being rather buggy, a number of threads indicate that the latest Civ is just too easy at the moment. It appears that the AI is weak and that there are less strategic elements the player needs to balance in order to win.

It adds up to a pass for me at the moment. If you get to trying it please let us know what you think.

 

[EMan]

SirPleb, good to see you're at least loitering here!

I have ordered a new laptop from Dell, specifically prompted by the Civ 5 release!

Yes, I imagine the AI is still weak (don't know for sure).......No Master Chess Programmers have defected to Firaxis (my guess)......However, for me, as long as I'm competing against other humans in the HOF on a level playing field, it's still a lot of fun.

Recently (viz last 3 years!), I've taken to working my way up the HOF Lists Home Page, but have a long way to go.......to reach your Sid score!

My wife would certainly like to visit the Vancouver area again and see y'all........Maybe next summer(?).....We'll be in Brisbane this winter.

Apologies to readers for what now seems like a Private Message.........Hopefully not too boring!

Many people miss you SirPLeb in the Civ 3 World.

 

[Arathorn]

Fun discussion in an OLD thread!!!!

The AI is not up to the task in Civ5. At least, it doesn't seem to be, but my sample size is still too small to say for sure. There are some great concepts, but some of the execution is still ... lacking, in a few ways.

It'd be great to see both of you return to the scene, though!

Arathorn

 

[Whomp]

Great seeing thoughts coming from some of our most esteemed civvers. I've read Sirian explain how the hex forced the programmers to completely rebuild the AI and civ franchise from scratch. Sullla has suggesting this group of beta testers were not nearly as critical as they should have been on the developers. Going so far as to say Aeson should have been a beta tester to show its weaknesses and articulate it. I would suggest you guys would've helped quite a bit in this regard too.

I'm with SirPleb and will wait till some of the issues are sorted out.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Look at those join dates... wow...

 

[superslug]

Yeah, lot of old-timers chipping in here lately.

 

[bluejay]

I've read Sirian explain how the hex forced the programmers to completely rebuild the AI and civ franchise from scratch. Sullla has suggesting this group of beta testers were not nearly as critical as they should have been on the developers.

Could you give a reference? There's too much noise on the Civ 5 boards to find anything that's really useful.

The demo doesn't run right on my 3-year-old machine, the letters look like some strange Asian language, so no Civ 5 for me in the near future. But then I never got into Civ 4 either.

 

[Whomp]

The comments by Sirian and Sullla are at another site www.realmsbeyond.net

Sirian works for Firaxis now and Sullla was a beta tester for civ4. I think their comments are interesting because they are both coming from a different place with regards to this iteration of the game.

 

[SirPleb]

It is nice to see some old timers still here!

I've read Sirian explain how the hex forced the programmers to completely rebuild the AI and civ franchise from scratch. Sullla has suggesting this group of beta testers were not nearly as critical as they should have been on the developers.

Certainly the hex tiles, and dozens of other changes, would require a rewrite of at least large parts of the AI. BTW I do think the hex tiles are a good thing. They should result in a better game by making linear viewed distance proportional to number of tiles and eliminating the oddities caused by diagonals on square maps.

Having to rewrite stuff doesn't excuse not doing a good job. With the hex tiles as a case in point, they, in conjunction with the 1UPT rule, clearly require a rewrite of the path finding (shortest path from A to B) logic. The basic path finding logic should be easier to write with hex tiles because 1) There's a better base heuristic since distance is now proportional to number of tiles in any direction and 2) For the tree search bits, there are now just 6 possible moves from each tile (5 after taking one step) vs. 8 with the old setup (7 after one step) so greater depth can be searched. OTOH it gets more complicated due to one unit per tile and knowing when that does/doesn't mean a route is blocked. And it has all the usual complications due to terrain, ships, etc. All of this can be seen ahead of time just based on the conceptual changes (hex, 1UPT.) So why wasn't it allocated some time and implemented well? (I see a number of complaints related to poor pathfinding, both with and without 1UPT issues involved.) I don't view problems like these as being due to inadequate beta testing. The path finding code should not have left the developer's desk without being well tested for the conditions it would clearly have to handle. Things like this speak volumes about the mindset of a development team and the direction they're given.

The AI is not up to the task in Civ5. At least, it doesn't seem to be, but my sample size is still too small to say for sure.

If you decide to write up your thoughts after playing more, it would be great if you would post a note in this thread so that we lurking old-timers will know about it

My wife would certainly like to visit the Vancouver area again and see y'all........Maybe next summer(?).....We'll be in Brisbane this winter.

Apologies to readers for what now seems like a Private Message.........Hopefully not too boring!

I hope that other readers will see this as a good thing. It is neat that we who meet on these forums sometimes have a chance to meet in person as happened when EMan and L detoured in their travels to say hello. If you'll be near Vancouver Island again please let us know EMan, it would be great to see you.