Skipping techs

[carl corey]

While reading Mad Scientist's RPC summary I wondered which of the first level techs are really necessary in the long run, and what would happen if you didn't research one of them. By first level techs I mean Fishing, Wheel, Agriculture, Hunting, Mysticism and Mining.

As it turns out missing either Hunting or Agriculture would not be the end of the world, however missing one of the others is going to block lots of techs. Hunting only blocks Archery, while having only one of Agriculture and Hunting is enough to get Animal Husbandry, and Pottery can be obtained with Fishing instead of Agriculture.

On the other hand, without Fishing you don't get Sailing, so no Compass, no Optics, no Astronomy, no Physics and then you're in trouble for a good part of the late game techs. Missing the Wheel means no Pottery, so no Metal Casting, no Machinery, no Printing Press, etc. Missing Mysticism might seem ok, until you get to Monarchy, Feudalism, Guilds, Banking, Replaceable Parts, etc. Missing Mining leads to the horror: no Bronze Working; no Iron Working, Metal Casting and so on to follow.

Well, if you've read so far you probably have an idea where this is going. How about a series of six games, and in each of them we'll have to skip one of those first level techs? Level, leaders and maps to be decided; they will of course vary based on which tech we skip.

 

[shyuhe]

I've done a SG skipping BW. This was back in warlords I think, I don't remember the difficulty any more - probably monarch. Skipping mining wouldn't be that different, I think.

 

[carl corey]

Well, you wouldn't be able to build mines. So you'd have really low production at first, since there's no mining, no chopping and no slavery. Of course you'll still be able to build forts to get the resources. Other than that it would be the same.

 

[pfo]

Playing a game with the intention of skipping agriculture is not wise, what if you have lots of farm resources in your area? It's pretty much a given that at some point you'll need agriculture or animal husbandry, because farm / animal resources will exist in your area. The need for these depends on the map.

That being said, if I don't start with mysticism, I've played games where I don't research it for a long time, like until 1 AD. That seems to be the only one you could optionally skip. Maybe fishing too, if it's a pangaea map. But then again, calendar resources often abound, so fishing eventually becomes necessary.

 

[JammerUno]

Archery and HNR spring to mind.

 

[DaveMcW]

Play Spain on Settler level, you don't have to research any of them.

 

[carl corey]

Playing a game with the intention of skipping agriculture is not wise, what if you have lots of farm resources in your area?

I'm not going for "wise", I'm going for fun.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Play Spain on Settler level, you don't have to research any of them.

That's a nice idea for another crazy SG game ... tx!

edit, OT: on a normal game, I can't live without them, exception of hunting which can be rather bad (HR =>warrior happiness is good for you )

 

[GoodGame]

While reading Mad Scientist's RPC summary I wondered which of the first level techs are really necessary in the long run, and what would happen if you didn't research one of them. By first level techs I mean Fishing, Wheel, Agriculture, Hunting, Mysticism and Mining.

Skip Mysticism if you don't want religion or stonehenge; Usually I only want stonehenge for Charismatic or for REXing without Creative.

Fishing is always situationally skippable; It's only regrettable if you have a single fish resource, and mediocre land food at start. I only priortize it for large inland seas and if there is 2-3 seafood at start.

Only an Idiot would skip Mining. Generally the same about Ag.

Wheel is frequently pointless if you don't need cottages right away (usually only need them right away for early religion footrace or if in a fat flood plains), or if you're on a river with riverside luxury.

AH is skippable if you don't have landanimal food, or don't care about horse units.

Hunting is a good alt to AH if you don't need Ag right away; Unless I have a very specific strategy, some early scouts are a good idea, so I don't usually skip hunting.

Sounds like masochism for a RPC.

 

[Airey]

Lots depend on difficulty level and resource you have at your bfc.
Immort and above, players should have no problem skipping, beeline and back trade with AI. Emp and below, prob need to research yourself, as AI don't tech as fast as you.

 

[shyuhe]

Lots depend on difficulty level and resource you have at your bfc.
Immort and above, players should have no problem skipping, beeline and back trade with AI. Emp and below, prob need to research yourself, as AI don't tech as fast as you.

Carl's point is skipping the tech for the entire game...

 

[Airey]

Carl's point is skipping the tech for the entire game...

Haha...my bad~

Did anyone actually do a game without mining? Would be interesting to see it done, non-AP victory.

 

[DaveMurray]

Haha...my bad~

Did anyone actually do a game without mining? Would be interesting to see it done, non-AP victory.

Skipping mining would mean that the most powerful unit a civ would be able to build for the entire game would be longbows, and galleys for the navy. However I think you can build catapults so warfare wouldn't be too bad early on. The biggest handicap though would be not being able to improve forested terrain.

 

[Killroyan]

Crazy games!!! Love the idea. Get it going. I would like to play one but have way too little time to post long stories over here.

 

[PhroX]

There was a question in the Civ quiz some time back asking for all the techs you can skip yet still get Future Tech. Some quite suprising ones. Doing that'd make an interesting game...

 

[Phil725]

One word for skipping mining: Keshiks.

Just play GK on a marathon/epic pangea. Production wouldn't be great without mining, but some forested hills would hopefully be enough. You can easily have 4 or 5 capitals before longbows are a problem. And with that much land, you can afford a keshik/cat war of attrition.

I believe you only need the wheel, hunting and mysticism for this, skipping fishing, ag and mining. You could theoretically skip the wheel, but that means making keshiks only out of a city that you settle on horses. Although you could spam a lot of cats from other cities.

 

[carl corey]

Neah, I'm gonna skip one tech at a time, I'm not that much of a masochist! Keshiks do seem a good choice for the no mining game. I'll start with this one tonight. Probably Epic speed, as Marathon is too slow for my tastes, and Normal will get me out of my "best units" era too fast. I usually play on Emperor/Immortal, so I'll drop to Monarch and see how it goes.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Neah, I'm gonna skip one tech at a time, I'm not that much of a masochist!

Tested Dave's idea last night... you can go until gunpowder/nationalism/construction and dominate with a muskets/cats SoD. The problem is that you are restricted to warriors before Gunpowder . I tryed it a noble, dunno if it can be higher (probably, but by skipping basic techs, you also ends up with zero improvement ).

Other stuffs can be done in pangea with guys starting with fishing mining... like axe rushing your continent ...

Finally there is Rome which is as easy as always with those restrictions

Good luck with your game Carl!

 

[NonPrayinMantis]

Finally there is Rome which is as easy as always with those restrictions

Except for mining. Rome without mining would be like a tiger without teeth! No mining, no ironworking; no ironworking, no Praetorians!

NPM

 

[troytheface]

Hunting is one of if not the most important first tech.

Fact- Scout pops hut = tech = way ahead instead of going for bronzeworking

Fact- Only archers will stop bararians with a bit of certainty

Fact- Spear needed to stop a quick mounted against city attack

Fact- Hunting, the optimal tech for the superior player