Slavic Federation

[3of5]

Watch Iron Sky and you'll change your mind. I guarantee you that any Nazi mod I'll create will not take itself seriously at all.

That i don't doubt a second. I elaborated above why i still think it would be a bad idea (even though i have already seen Iron Sky and sbolutely loved it). Maybe if you nest it into a satirical universe with other elements making it undobtely fictional (i'm thinking of Dr. Strangelove and similar cultural artefacts) it could be a really cool mod. But just the faction alone could give people who actualy believe in the Nazi ideology a way to dwell in their fantasy, bolstering their convictions, which i think would be problematic.

 

[3of5]

Huh... Does wanting to play as space nazis makes one... "bad", or with questionable morals/ethics?

It's just a game?

But ideology based factions are meh anyways, since that is what happens in game, as I may role-play and/or build an ideology with all kinds of traditions etc.

But I'm thinking in traditional "Civilization" too much. Factions in BE have a bit different composition, and in fact very well may consist of ideology as the main faction composition.

Yes it does, §22 of the ISO6539 clearly states that wanting to play as a historically damned faction HDF (see appendix 3) makes you a bad person, unmistakeably and unredeemable, no matter of your other actions in life. That ISO has been ratified by all major world religions (but Islam who actually like some of the HDFs) and been approved by divine intervention. Not only does it define who a bad person is, it also sets the very meaning of good and bad into measurable parameters (i.e. 1 PolPots = 0,62 Hitlers).

For any chance of redemption you should immediately seek out a priest of your preferred religion for guidance (or councelling if you are agnostic) and play 1 SMAC game as Miriam for penance.

no seriously, i does NOT make you a bad person, but it can reinforce antisocial ideologies for "bad persons", which is why i don't think it is a good idea.

 

[Fabio1701]

Huh... Does wanting to play as space nazis makes one... "bad", or with questionable morals/ethics?

It's just a game?

But ideology based factions are meh anyways, since that is what happens in game, as I may role-play and/or build an ideology with all kinds of traditions etc.

But I'm thinking in traditional "Civilization" too much. Factions in BE have a bit different composition, and in fact very well may consist of ideology as the main faction composition.

Yes, in game choices will influence the factions more than their "base" ideology in CBE, but it is still fun to extrapolate and I do think that not all affinities will end up one of three identical flavours. Taking a bunch of nazi's and giving them cyborg impants or splicing their genes with aliens is justified in their eyes by using any means to create the ubermensch, choosing purity just means they think they are already the ubermensch. It's just whether they are conservative historically bound nazis or forward thinking progressive nazis. That last sentence sounds very wierd.

 

[Fabio1701]

Yes it does, §22 of the ISO6539 clearly states that wanting to play as a historically damned faction HDF (see appendix 3) makes you a bad person, unmistakeably and unredeemable, no matter of your other actions in life. That ISO has been ratified by all major world religions (but Islam who actually like some of the HDFs) and been approved by divine intervention. Not only does it define who a bad person is, it also sets the very meaning of good and bad into measurable parameters (i.e. 1 PolPots = 0,62 Hitlers).

For any chance of redemption you should immediately seek out a priest of your preferred religion for guidance (or councelling if you are agnostic) and play 1 SMAC game as Miriam for penance.

no seriously, i does NOT make you a bad person, but it can reinforce antisocial ideologies for "bad persons", which is why i don't think it is a good idea.

I remember civ when you could play as Stalin. That dude was definitely 0.96 Hitlers with a margin of error +/- 0.08. No one complained then. And Mao wasn't exactly 0.00 Hitlers either.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I remember civ when you could play as Stalin. That dude was definitely 0.96 Hitlers with a margin of error +/- 0.08. No one complained then. And Mao wasn't exactly 0.00 Hitlers either.

Plenty of people on this forum complained and I found Stalin and Mao in bad taste but still (barely) acceptable.
The biggest difference is that Stalin left a superpower behind but Germany was a pile of rubble with considerably less territory and four occupying armies after the Nazis were done with it.

 

[3of5]

I remember civ when you could play as Stalin. That dude was definitely 0.96 Hitlers with a margin of error +/- 0.08. No one complained then. And Mao wasn't exactly 0.00 Hitlers either.

But even playing as Stalin or Mao you'd play Russia or China, not stalinist Russia or culture revolution China, playing Nazi Germany would put the emphasis on the nazi ideology. Its a bit like comparing Germany to Nazi Germany. Moon Nazis are the whole package of antihumanist ideological abomination. Its just not the same as playing Russia with a monster as a leader in my eyes, when you're playing a whole monstrous faction.

But lets slowly steer that conversation back to towards the Slavic Federation, please.

I hope they put the emphasis on the cosmonaut legacy. Its called a Federation after all (not that todays Russian Federation would mind).

 

[Fabio1701]

Plenty of people on this forum complained and I found Stalin and Mao in bad taste but still (barely) acceptable.
The biggest difference is that Stalin left a superpower behind but Germany was a pile of rubble with considerably less territory and four occupying armies after the Nazis were done with it.

So, by this logic, it's ok to play an evil dude, as long as the millions that died left the country better off.

But even playing as Stalin or Mao you'd play Russia or China, not stalinist Russia or culture revolution China, playing Nazi Germany would put the emphasis on the nazi ideology. Its a bit like comparing Germany to Nazi Germany. Moon Nazis are the whole package of antihumanist ideological abomination. Its just not the same as playing Russia with a monster as a leader in my eyes, when you're playing a whole monstrous faction.

But lets slowly steer that conversation back to towards the Slavic Federation, please.

I hope they put the emphasis on the cosmonaut legacy. Its called a Federation after all (not that todays Russian Federation would mind).

Now that is a good point, the choice of leader being more a choice of ideology then of country. To be fair though, then playing Stalin I pretty much figure I am playing Stalinist Russia. Command & Conquer Red Alert? To kindof bring in SMAC, the social engineering and atorcity choices very much meant you coudl recreate these abomonation nations.

I think in general the Slavic Fed has a place, because what is a space opera without some russian influence? (I would have liked the leader of the expedition to be Pavel Chekov, and for him to say "nuclear wessels" at some point, maybe a mod?) Although in my mind I think the core of the Slavic Fed will be in eastern europe, perhaps Ukraine or the Balkans and them taking over the remnants of what was the russian federation.

 

[Martinus]

I really hope they do not go down the stereotypical route by making the Slavic Federation a clone of Stalinist Russia/totalitarian regime. An interesting twist would be some sort of anachronistic element thrown in, either in the form of harkening back to 19th century or even to pre-Christian pagan times (not saying they should be technologically backwards, but use that kind of feel/imagery). A Soviet-style general at the helm would be boring.

The Christian States of America are just the Bible Belt amplified to national level. Conservative and aggressive (at least as far as Miriam is concerned), but that's not really on par with oppressive and imperial in a totalitarian sense.

Handmaid's Tale, anyone?

You're too trusting.
The claim to be altruistic, just like every imperialistic power in history claimed to bring peace, order, prosperity, freedom or whatever the most popular buzzword of their ideology is at the time. "We did what the others wouldn't or couldn't do" sounds awfully jingoistic to me and might just be propaganda.
We also don't know anything about Brasilia's political system or foreign relations beyond their apparent role as the new world police.
As I said in this thread, I hope they remain vague about the factions so that we can project our own expectations on them. I want the info about the SF to be ambiguous enough that you can imagine them as an orwellian nightmare and I as a slightly more integrated and militarised EU.

I think the idea so far is that every faction can be interpreted as the good guys (or at least, "reasonable guys") but also has a nightmare fuel potential (Khavitan Protectorate may be a theocratic totalitarianism where everyone is brainwashed into loving the Prophet; ARC can be a dystopian cyber punk state where corporations effectively own people; Franco-Iberia could be a tightly controlled society where those expressing ideas that are not "useful" or "part of the Canon" are disposed of; PAC could be a soulless science-without-morality system etc.)

So I wouldn't necessarily say Brasilia stands out as either good or bad. It can be interpreted both ways.

 

[Coleman Trebor]

Which is why a Tsar, or an Imperial Russia General who's boss is the Tsar back in Moscow, would be great.

I also really love the idea of Space Tsars.

 

[Martinus]

Incidentally, looking at the factions revealed so far, what we didn't have yet is a full blown democracy (because the more I think of Franco-Iberia the less like democracy it seems - it is more of an enlightened despotism). So perhaps the Slavic Federation could be an example of some very decentralised democracy, bordering on anarchy, akin to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?

Of course then you'd wonder how they managed to send a space ship.

 

[Josephias]

Because Russia has still a leg up in the technology to do so, and Poland really wanted into space, so it supported Russia just in this case, as far as the Polish flag was in the ship ;p


Enviado desde mi iPhone con Tapatalk

 

[A Bucket O Spam]

On a complete side note: We have two more factions to go... which one next? My guess would be Hutama, but I could be dead wrong.

 

[3of5]

Incidentally, looking at the factions revealed so far, what we didn't have yet is a full blown democracy

Ain't the PAU a democracy (or rather assembly of democracies)? It is said they were able to put up proper governments (after the Brazilians drove the warlords out) and good governance (a term which we attribute mainly to democracies). Imho the PAU is the spiritual follower of the EU.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Ain't the PAU a democracy (or rather assembly of democracies)? It is said they were able to put up proper governments (after the Brazilians drove the warlords out) and good governance (a term which we attribute mainly to democracies). Imho the PAU is the spiritual follower of the EU.

"good governance" is in the eye of the beholder...

China appears to be stable and growing and it is not a democracy

I wouldn't be surprised if the PAU was a collection of civil service bureaucracies (like China now) Occasionally some unrest has to be put down, but not like it was.

In any case Barre is not about freedom and equality, he is about stable growth and development.

Fielding at least talks a good 'freedom' talk but not a 'free and equal' talk

Elodie is definitely aristocratic rather than democratic

I personally think Humata is the most likely to be the 'free and equal' type, because a "Freeland" city (non ARC/PAU) was seen in the espionage view in the E3 gameplay.

It has an English name which eliminates all of the factions except ARC, Poly, and Maybe PAU... leaving only Polystalia

So I'm guessing that Hutama wants a democratic type society (especially as Freeland is probaly the capital)

 

[Martinus]

Good points all, but I think PAU is probably more like the UN - i.e. an assembly but they do not interfere in the form of government in each nation forming the organisation.

 

[Stigmatus]

Hope this week we'll see some info about one of the remaining factions

 

[vahouth]

Today would be good...

 

[COF]

I expect to see the Polystralian leader before the Slavic one, I take the fact that we saw glimpse of him in those photos of concept art as a teaser.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I expect to see the Polystralian leader before the Slavic one, I take the fact that we saw glimpse of him in those photos of concept art as a teaser.

Bolivar and Elodie were first shown in articles of Brazilian and Frech gaming sites, and most new previews this week were in Polish. I'm pretty sure we'll see Kozlov in an hour or so.

 

[3of5]

"good governance" is in the eye of the beholder...

China appears to be stable and growing and it is not a democracy

yeayea, thats exactly the reason why i specifically stated that we "tend to attribute" good governance to democratic qualities of a country. I did NOT say that only democracies would have good governance. Thats a far too big topic to discuss it here (and i don't really like to talk about Easterly). I tried to interpret the words of an east coast american game developer or PR guy in his probable cultural context.

You know Krikkit, i have a feeling you like to misinterpret what people say so you can be a smartass about it. I'm just not buying.