The bold nature of civ7 goes deeper than just civ switching - it's about sandbox vs structured narrative

The second way would be to translate the old name into the form used by the new Civ and its language, as you posted. This would provide more continuity, but would be devilishly hard: not only do you have to find equivalents for every potential capital, but also equivalents for the equivalents for the next Age: every capital in Antiquity would have to have, based on what we know now, at least 3 equivalents for the Exploration Age and potentially 9+ for the Modern Age - and the totals are probably greater since they seem to throw in an 'alternate' Civ choice in each Age based on variable situations.
For what it's worth, the Rosetta mod for Civ6 already does this--including taking into account conquering/loyalty swapping any city as (nearly) any civ. Again, though, this is the kind of thing I'd expect a mod to do, not the base game. FXS has more resources but also more expectation to be authentic.
 
I would far rather have them give you the option
just like you have “move capital” as an option, you have
“Rename Cities” as an option
or
“Retain civ name(s)*”

includes city name list
This is essentially what I've done on my own for Civ VI

I have about 17 different City Lists for alternate Civs (Kushan, Sikh, Khazar, Welsh etc) and in-game Civs (Gallic, Mayan, Mongolian, etc) that I prefer and upon founding or capturing a city I frequently change the given name to something I consider more suitable.
 
I'm not expecting the level of detail Rosetta brings--but I eagerly await Rosetta's Civ7 sequel (which I think SeelingCat already mentioned being eager to make). If I'm Egypt and become Mongols, I 100% want Waset to become Tipe; if I'm Abbasids and somehow become Qing, Baghdad should become Bāgédá; etc. Again, this is a level of nuance I don't necessarily expect from the devs, but I do look forward to modders providing it. (I'm also very okay with some speculation from modders--e.g., I don't know the Nahuatl name for Athens, but I'm okay with something like Atenatl or Atellān.)
A Tlatoanate of Greece would be interesting. By the way talking about capitals and Aztecs, the Mexica is an example of another option for transition, instead of rename a capital what about start in a completely new capital like Tenochtitlan was.

Of course we still dont know all the details behind age transition, but options like A) use the previous capital with the same name, B) use the same capital with a new name, C) use another of your previous cities as the new capital and D) found a completely new capital could be the result of a narrative event.
Something that one more time I think could be posible but would need something more interesting that "three horses now I am Mongol".
 
Zeus has morphed into Huitzilopochtli.

Well. OK.

Yeah, I can see it: neither one of them has what you'd call a reputation for being Even-Tempered and Reasonable . . .
 
Well both Huitzlopochtli and Zeus were not wanted to be born by a direct familar but on his role was closer to Ares.
 
Well both Huitzlopochtli and Zeus were not wanted to be born by a direct familar but on his role was closer to Ares.
Both Huitzilopochtli and Ares were definitely fond of death...
 
The mission statement I've viewed Civ as a franchise has been "Historical in the sense it represents a natural progression of history not in replicating OUR history".

Egypt never became Mongolia so in a Paradox style game this would seem wild to happen out of the blue but Civs world is ours thrown through a Random Number Generator from the start leading to an alternate path that follows the flow of history.
 
Egypt never became Mongolia so in a Paradox style game this would seem wild to happen out of the blue but Civs world is ours thrown through a Random Number Generator from the start leading to an alternate path that follows the flow of history.
It's indeed not so easy to become Mongolia from any starting point in a Paradox style game, but it is very easy to become Egypt regardless who you started as in EU4. It's also not at all wild, it's what players do all the time (well, not Egypt specifically, because it isn't that useful). The difference to civ is that here the AI is doing it as well, while the AI in most PDX games (excluding CK here which is much more random) usually develops more historically.
 
It's indeed not so easy to become Mongolia from any starting point in a Paradox style game, but it is very easy to become Egypt regardless who you started as in EU4. It's also not at all wild, it's what players do all the time (well, not Egypt specifically, because it isn't that useful). The difference to civ is that here the AI is doing it as well, while the AI in most PDX games (excluding CK here which is much more random) usually develops more historically.
I think the AI doing it is ultimately good. It would feel odd if these players were all thrown into some bizzaro version of earth and everything came out normal. The cultures in my opinion should change to match the challenges of the new challenges brought their way.
 
I think the AI doing it is ultimately good. It would feel odd if these players were all thrown into some bizzaro version of earth and everything came out normal. The cultures in my opinion should change to match the challenges of the new challenges brought their way.
Indeed, knowing that the AI leaders will change also is part of the challenge... the higher-level strategy, eventually.

If a leader near me *can* turn into Mongoilia in the Exploration Age, that may factor into my planning and combat in Antiquity. It might be better to conquer a chunk of their empire now, to reduce their ability to threaten me later. Likewise a leader can turn into an economic powerhouse, that may impede my pursuit of that legacy path or might give me an incentive to invade them in the next age.
 
Indeed, knowing that the AI leaders will change also is part of the challenge... the higher-level strategy, eventually.

If a leader near me *can* turn into Mongoilia in the Exploration Age, that may factor into my planning and combat in Antiquity. It might be better to conquer a chunk of their empire now, to reduce their ability to threaten me later. Likewise a leader can turn into an economic powerhouse, that may impede my pursuit of that legacy path or might give me an incentive to invade them in the next age.
I think the important part is relearning to separate the leaders from the Civs. Like in 6 you knew to be scared it Montezuma settled next to you not necesarily the Aztecs. Leaders are likely to pick Civs that match their playstyles, probably won't have to worry about Ben Franklin picking the Mongols and becoming evil all of the sudden.
 
I very much agree with the OP's original point. I would word it as Civ 7 being far less sandboxy, and more a direct descendant of board games where, regardless of whether the subject is history or the occult or detective work, player attention is firmly focused on accruing points towards victory.

My guess is that it is this which will shape players' reaction to the game over time, once the surface controversies have passed.

The devs interpreted the low rate of finishing Civ 6 games as an indictment of the game. However, another interpretation would be that a lot of people have been saying to hell with formal win conditions, I just want to build up a civilization. And when safely ahead and secure, I just want to declare victory and start afresh.

All earlier Civs allowed the player the freedom to play either way. As a focused competition to meet specific goals, or as a sandbox.

Civ 7 seems to strongly discourage the latter, and so the players used to playing it that way may resent being pushed to change.

Or maybe they won't. Some may decide that a more defined path is more fun after all. And others may continue to play it as a sandbox game, pay less attention to the legacy paths, and either quit at the end of the age, or simply deal with a suboptimal start to the next age. (It's not as though the game is all that difficult at most settings, so this might not be so frustrating.)

Edit: One further unintended consequence: Presumably a higher percentage of Civ 7 players will be playing through the modern age now, and that is likely to expose the weaknesses of modern age gameplay. The air warfare looks to my eye to be the least fleshed out; and the map is at its busiest and least readable in the later game.
 
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I very much agree with the OP's original point. I would word it as Civ 7 being far less sandboxy, and more a direct descendant of board games where, regardless of whether the subject is history or the occult or detective work, player attention is firmly focused on accruing points towards victory.

Now that I've played it, this seems like the best formulation of the difference between Civ 7 and previous games. This is exactly how it felt to me.

The devs interpreted the low rate of finishing Civ 6 games as an indictment of the game. However, another interpretation would be that a lot of people have been saying to hell with formal win conditions, I just want to build up a civilization. And when safely ahead and secure, I just want to declare victory and start afresh.

I can understand why they'd consider this a problem, yet I'm not sure whether solving it is a good idea. My cynical (or practical?) take is that they want to appeal to a wider audience, particularly including console players, and to do that they feel they need to make a shorter, faster game with very clear near-term goals. That might work. The downside is that it's going to disenchant a significant portion of the existing player base that is looking for something different. Financially, it may well make sense to sell many more units to people who are less committed to the game, but if this is going to be their cash cow for the next 6-8 years, its long-term health is going to depend on those enthusiasts who keep coming back to buy the DLCs, write the mods, spend time debating it in online forums :), and so on, not casual players who will play it a few times and then move on to the next broad-appeal game. They're also trapped in a situation where if the existing player base isn't enthusiastic about it, the reviews are going to be mixed or poor and that's going to drive away that new audience during the narrow window they've got to attract them.

I could be misreading the situation, though. They may just not have wanted to build another incremental improvement on Civ 6. They made some big changes in Civ 5 that I deeply disliked, and I don't think I played more than 2-3 games of Civ 5, where I've plowed hundreds of hours at least into earlier and later versions of the game. So it might just be that Civ 7 is a repeat of Civ 5 for me personally.
 
My cynical (or practical?) take is that they want to appeal to a wider audience, particularly including console players, and to do that they feel they need to make a shorter, faster game with very clear near-term goals. That might work
The thing is they have done this but you can totally ignore the "gamification" (can you gamify a game lol), play a good game of Civ and still be rewarded. Epic with extended ages feels a good rhythm for me.
 
The thing is they have done this but you can totally ignore the "gamification" (can you gamify a game lol), play a good game of Civ and still be rewarded. Epic with extended ages feels a good rhythm for me.
Could you give some insights about how it feels about lack of continuity when you would try to play the old way? For me in all previous games when I'm not at war it's just temporary. I have always military short tern goal in my head and either preparing for it or executing it at the moment. And my cities are well oiled machine to support this. And now I hear that in civ7 all of this gets interrupted, war is ended, armies teleported, cities downgraded and you have to start your engine again.
 
I hear that in civ7 all of this gets interrupted, war is ended, armies teleported, cities downgraded and you have to start your engine again.
I really wasn't looking forward to that aspect but it was much smoother than I expected, as you get towards the end of the age you need to take that into account. You have to plan to have your war ended before the age ends but as your Commanders and their units survive you can place them near the border of an AI ready to launch a new one as the age turns.
 
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Could you give some insights about how it feels about lack of continuity when you would try to play the old way? For me in all previous games when I'm not at war it's just temporary. I have always military short tern goal in my head and either preparing for it or executing it at the moment. And my cities are well oiled machine to support this. And now I hear that in civ7 all of this gets interrupted, war is ended, armies teleported, cities downgraded and you have to start your engine again.
In Civ7, you have a mixture of cities and towns. Cities can build things; both cities and towns can buy things with gold. The buildup of the well-oiled machine proceeds a little differently. Although I have the option to convert towns to cities, I may not, if they have few resources or are surrounded by mountains or have a long coastal border.

The transition is NOT a surprise. The player starts getting messages / narrative events about 20 turns before the age ends. Taking a city -- or retreating and repacking into a commader -- can be done before the transition.

I, too, have short term military goals, that might extend over the age transition. A feature that I'm still factoring into my military plans is the settlement limit. When you have a total (towns + cities) that is over the limit, you begin to have happiness penalties. Bigger penatlies the further over the limit you are. My plan might be to take these 2 cities, wait for peace / age transition, and build up some happiness to offset the penalty. Or wait to raise the settlement limit with civics research. Ebb and flow, adjust the military goals.

The *leaders* remember whether they were happy with you or mad at you in the previous age. As I entered Modern, two leaders who were "Hostile" started out nice -- for 1 turn -- then got mad again. That malus faded over time, until I did new things to make them mad again.
 
As I entered Modern, two leaders who were "Hostile" started out nice -- for 1 turn -- then got mad again
There's definitely a few "blips" at the transition where things take a turn or two to settle down.
 
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