Small question about SE

Would anyone ever do a SE without a Philosophical leader? Would it be too slow?

Many have already done it. There's plenty of threads kicking around, some winning on Deity no less. Philo, Pyramids - they are not necessary. The only must-have for successful SE is Biology in the late game.
 
I would say the most important traits for SE are:

-Philosophical (more gp)
-Industrious (easier shot at pyramids, parthenon, GL, NE and for war HE, GT)
-Spiritual (to switch between caste system/pacificism and slavery/theocracy or orgrel at will also between rep/ps if pyramids [hi rameses])
-Creative (cheaper libraries for earlier scientists and pop borders faster for faster chopping of wonders [hi louis])

Any combination of these traits really will lend itself to a strong SE. Pyramids are a bonus, but not necessary. The focus is on lightbulbing and trading tech and also on being able to flexibly (is that a word?) switch your whole empire from a caste-system/pacifism-driven economy to slavery-whip-driven military production in a short time (esp if spiritual). A CE has to rely on city specialization moreso than a SE imo.
 
On a crowded map, a settled or culture bombed GA can actually be the most powerful GP: it's the only one that has the potential to gain you an extra city.

In one game I managed to pop 3 GAs from my GP farm at what must have been extremely unlikely odds. Three border cities got culture bombs, leading a total of 5 AI cities to revolt over to me, nearly doubling my total number of cities whilst severely damaging my neighbours. The spoils of war without the effort or the risks!

I assume none of your AI Opponents were creative or the Inca's (UB Terrance)

Wodan said:
Disagree. GP are always useful, no matter the type. (Well, except a great prophet in the modern age, which is about as useful as nipples on a guy.) If you put all your eggs in one basket then you deserve to not get Philo. Much better to have two cities with successive chances to get a GS.

Hey Great Prophets are still useful in the Modern Age, Either Save them for a Golden Age or Settle them in your Wall Street City for an Extra 15 Gold which will help increase your Science Slider assuming Bank/Market/Grocer is already built in that City


futurehermit said:
-Creative (cheaper libraries for earlier scientists and pop borders faster for faster chopping of wonders [hi louis])

I always Thought the Creative Trait was beneficial to the SE because it helps your culture slider for increase happiness because of the cheap Theatres and Colosseums especially Post Democracy/Emancipation.

Here's an Idea why not Save a GM and Beeline to Constitution? Do a normal Liberalism Beeline using your GS, take Nationalism as the Free tech and light bulb Constitution with your GM for the early Representation Civic.

Remember to Ignore Banking, and have Codes or Law, Currency and Metal Casting before Light bulbing for Constitution.
 
^^^Yes on both counts. Creative is good for :) w/culture slider, which SE should be using as opposed to hereditary rule imo (no need to build all those defensive troops...). Saving a GM for early representation if not getting pyramids (build or capture) is a very good idea. Constitution also gives jails for combatting WW and is highly tradeable. It's also a prereq for democracy (statue of liberty...)
 
GP are always useful, no matter the type.

Actually, I think many GAs are actively detrimental. (Obligatory exception for cultural victory, and acknowledgement that there are sometimes worthwhile uses). Not only do they not usually give me an effect that's worth the GPPs I put into them, they make every following great person more expensive for the rest of the game. Seriously, if it were possible to disband a great person so that he didn't count against your future GPP totals ... I think that most of my GAs would be taken out back and shot.

peace,
lilnev
 
I think that most of my GAs would be taken out back and shot.

"Artists? Bah! What good have artists ever done for a civilisation? They never make anything one can actually use. They just loaf around, drinking Absinthe, smoking Gauloises, and stirring up discontent amongst the youth. Better just to shoot the lot of 'em, if you ask me."

Seriously, though, you're right about inconvenient GAs. I do wonder if the NE's GA point was put in just to mess up otherwise foolproof GS-based teching plans.

But, since the RNG gods don't seem to respond to prayers or animal sacrifice (:hmm: I wonder if there are any virginal Scottish policemen around here...), you just have to make the best of the situation. In most cases, any GP can be used to gain some advantage, even if it doesn't justify the cost of popping it in the first place.
 
^^^GAs do generally suck. However, if they come early, you can use it on music (prereq for miltrad) and if they come after you can trade for divine right you can use it to cheapen miltrad. These are good uses of GAs imo (I don't think you can bulb miltrad with any other type of gp...). Later ones can be paired for a GA...
 
"Artists? Bah! What good have artists ever done for a civilisation? They never make anything one can actually use. They just loaf around, drinking Absinthe, smoking Gauloises, and stirring up discontent amongst the youth. Better just to shoot the lot of 'em, if you ask me."

Not to mention that they steal all girls!
 
On the other hand, you can't easily use a half dozen axemen to get Philosophy.
I beg to differ; beat a civilization back to his last arctic city and he'll gladly give you Philosophy, along with any other tech he might have.
 
I'm trying out SE in my games, I usually play CE with financial leaders. I’m trying to use the Oracle/Metal Casting/Pyramid gambit with Saladin (Vanilla) . I had success so far only at Prince, I’ve failed to get the GE on time at Monarch (I do get the GE before the GP). Does this gambit work on higher levels? Should I have gold/gems/silver for early fast tech rate and marble for the Oracle?
Tanks
 
I've done the Oracle/ Metal Casting/ GE for Pyramids gambit only once, in fact in my current Prince game it didn't come together and I missed the Pyramids, someone else got them. Then the wrong city popped a Great Prophet and put the arrival of the second cities GE back a few hundred years. Then someone else got the GL.

Then went to plan B - mash the Egyptians into the ground ;)

Jon
 
I`ve got a different question: I`ve just "discovered" SE very recently and tried it in 2-3 games (in which I didn`t build a single hut), I`m currently trying my first Monarch games in which I hope to use it.
Now I would be interested in your opinions about which is generally the most powerful:
"Pure" CE (with GP-farm, of course), Hybrid Economy with mostly cottages, Hybrid Economy with mostly specialists, or pure SE?

I`m looking forward to your answers

Cheers, Mischief
 
You got the order correct.

1. "Pure" CE (with GP-farm, of course)
2. Hybrid Economy with mostly cottages
3. Hybrid Economy with mostly specialists
4. pure SE

However, the order reverses as you approach your victory condition. People who dominate the game with axemen generally don't care about cottages.
 
Mischief, please understand that Dave is hardly an unbiased person on this topic. For example, see his posts over on this thread.

To get an unbiased answer to your question, we would first have to find out what you mean by "the most powerful." For example, are you talking about research? What? Bottom line, despite what Dave says, there is no easy answer to your question.

Generally, SE will give you better early game research. CE will be better starting around 1000AD or so (especially after you get the bonuses from Paper etc.) Of course that varies from game to game. Some other comments: SE can sometimes give you better early-game production because it allows faster regrowth from whipping. Late game, if you are going for Domination or Conquest, SE can outperform CE, because the cities you conquer often have farms etc instead of matured Towns. Regardless, CE almost always is a late-game research powerhouse (you may not care about that, is my point, if your game plan is to get to Cossacks and then to conquer the world, for example). If you are going for a Space victory, then CE is almost certainly your best option.

Choice of leader, financial or philosophical or other, and whether or not you have stone/industrious (or some GE scheme) to easily get Pyramids, affects things greatly. In addition, terrain of the map you end up with will affect the situation. Some maps simply will do better with one system or the other, or with a hybrid.

Regardless of the system you choose to use, skill of the player will be important. Optitmal use of things such as a GP farm, religion, and your tech research choices will have a huge effect.

Wodan
 
You're very welcome. :)

Poke around some more. You'll find plenty of SE vs CE discussions. More than you probably want. :D

Wodan
 
Back
Top Bottom