Snowballing late game Science and Culture Actually Makes it Harder to Win

[Halira]

Okay. just played a game where I entered the modern age generating over 500 science and culture per turn to start and it inly went up from there. Found myself barrelling through the tech and civics tree and before I could manage to get seriously along with my victory conditions I was hitting future tech and future civics and advancing the age. Anyone else hitting this kind of problem?

 

[evonannoredars]

That insane +10 era score from future tech/civics is my no. 1 wish for them to adjust, especially since I want to experience the crises and not be forced to fast-forward through them because I have nothing else to possibly research. Hopefully there's a combination of game speed and era length that means the era ends well before I reach the end of the tree, although I've yet to find it

 

[Melkus]

Maybe an alternative late tech / mastery that accelerates production for the winning projects?

 

[Isca Dumnoniorum]

Every game so far - I want to compete against the other civs (sorry: leaders ), not the age progress timer. I wish they'd remove the age progress timer entirely in the Modern age (or whatever eventually succeeds it as the final age) as seeing a winning condition play out is surely the aim of the game.

 

[UWHabs]

I kind of see it make sense in the earlier eras (although I think they should change so that when the counter hits 100%, that's when the crisis starts, and you have a fixed number of turns for it). For the modern era it should always just trigger the end of the era by score at turn 150 regardless of other progress.

 

[dornlew]

I faced the same issue with science, maybe it's a strategy to not get too much of it in the modern age, but then again you might risk not winning at all.

 

[doolar]

Every game so far - I want to compete against the other civs (sorry: leaders ), not the age progress timer. I wish they'd remove the age progress timer entirely in the Modern age (or whatever eventually succeeds it as the final age) as seeing a winning condition play out is surely the aim of the game.

I like this idea, at least as an option.

 

[uppi]

Maybe an alternative late tech / mastery that accelerates production for the winning projects?

Yeah, Rocketry does not have a mastery. Shouldn't be too hard to add something to that.

 

[Ornen]

That insane +10 era score from future tech/civics is my no. 1 wish for them to adjust, especially since I want to experience the crises and not be forced to fast-forward through them because I have nothing else to possibly research. Hopefully there's a combination of game speed and era length that means the era ends well before I reach the end of the tree, although I've yet to find it

they need to scale back era score from future tech/civics & scale up era score from completing a legacy. it's not much fun ticking through the turns of an age when you've already won.

for earlier eras, might be good to increase the ticking era score for every legacy path that has been completed... once these are completed I just want the age to wind down pretty quickly

 

[StargazingDog]

Every game so far - I want to compete against the other civs (sorry: leaders ), not the age progress timer. I wish they'd remove the age progress timer entirely in the Modern age (or whatever eventually succeeds it as the final age) as seeing a winning condition play out is surely the aim of the game.

This would greatly diminish the value of the legacy points from earlier ages. There should be some tension between score and victory. This allows those who perform poorly in the modern age to still win via good performance in early ages, while also allowing those who perform poorly in early ages to still win via a victory condition.

You are essentially asking to remove the score victory. I'm sure this could be added at some point.

 

[Isca Dumnoniorum]

This would greatly diminish the value of the legacy points from earlier ages. There should be some tension between score and victory. This allows those who perform poorly in the modern age to still win via good performance in early ages, while also allowing those who perform poorly in early ages to still win via a victory condition.

You are essentially asking to remove the score victory. I'm sure this could be added at some point.

I disagree - the accumulated legacy points would still be valuable in helping you achieve the respective victory types and if you fell behind in both Antiquity and Exploration, I don't think you're likely to outpace everyone else to a score victory in Modern. I'm also not saying remove score completely - I'm saying remove the age progress timer and replace it with a traditional turn limit for a backstop. That would give people a bit more space to complete the victory conditions without their legacy path score making a score victory become a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[StargazingDog]

That would give people a bit more space to complete the victory conditions without their legacy path score making a score victory become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Again, while limiting the options of those who cannot complete a victory condition. Having the game accelerate as people complete legacy points puts pressure on those bee-lining for a specific victory. This provides flexibility for players to spread out amongst the legacy paths and still have a chance to win, and a method to hamper other players who are leading in a single path.

One of the stated design goals is to get players to finish out games. Lowering the overall chance of a player to win goes against the goal. If someone gets a bit into modern age and doesn't see how they can pull off an immediate victory, there could be a tendency to quit. If a score victory is likely, then such a player would still have a chance.

This is probably just a personal preference. Personally, I'd rather have immediate victory conditions be rare or require effort rather than being guaranteed. I don't want a repeat of Civ 6, where you sit and hit end turn for 20 turns while safely waiting for your wonder to complete or the UN to convene.

 

[UWHabs]

I disagree - the accumulated legacy points would still be valuable in helping you achieve the respective victory types and if you fell behind in both Antiquity and Exploration, I don't think you're likely to outpace everyone else to a score victory in Modern. I'm also not saying remove score completely - I'm saying remove the age progress timer and replace it with a traditional turn limit for a backstop. That would give people a bit more space to complete the victory conditions without their legacy path score making a score victory become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Yeah, score victory has always been the least interesting in every civ game. I doubt I've even contemplated opting for a score victory in civ 6, it should always be the last resort.

I understand the whole "count up the victory points" as a plausible victory - in 6 terms, it makes total sense. And sure, it doesn't need to be AS far as it was in other civ games where you can complete a game at turn 200 and score doesn't kick in until turn 500 or something.

Maybe the answer should be that in each of the science and culture trees, you have 2 repeatable techs. One of them is like a "+5% to science projects", the other is "+1 age progress". So if you want to force the score victory, you mash the age progress option. Otherwise you mash the science project one. Similarly for the culture tree - give me one option that maybe helps me find more relics, and another option that pushes the age progress timer.

 

[Isca Dumnoniorum]

It seems like the patch they’ve just put out strikes a middle ground between the two preferences as to the approach. Hopefully a good compromise!