So confused about timing Districts, Settlers and Builders?

[ÉtienneWillem]

Hey everybody, I need to some help understanding some of the advice I've been reading here lately, specifically about delaying your investment in techs and civics to keep districts cheaper, delaying settlers until you get Early Empire for the policy card, and delaying builders until you reach Feudalism.

My normal play style is to try to get as many early Eurekas and Inspirations as I can to go through the early parts of the tech and civic trees quickly, but then I read that this can increase the cost of your districts and should be avoided?

Similarly, I would normally try to rush as many settlers out in the early game as I could, sometimes buying multiple builders to chop them out faster in an effort to expand before the AI hemmed me in. I've now read that this is inefficient, and you don't want to use too many builders before Feudalism and you don't want to spend hammers on Settlers until you have the Early Empire card, which might take me to turn 40 or so. That seems way to late to start trying to expand.

Finally, there's district placement. I'm still fuzzy on exactly what drives up the cost of each district, but in general it seems like the advice is to place as many campuses as you can (but not finish them) as early as possible, to lock in the cost - however, often this means I have to purchase a good tile for it, when gold is critically needed for other things like unit upgrades.

Am I totally off track here with my understanding of the advice? Does it maybe only apply after you've done your initial expansion push of 2 or 3 cities? Is it more important to speed through the tech and civics trees or get cheaper districts? Help!

 

[walkerjks]

Controlling district costs almost always makes sense. You can still chase eurekas and inspirations, just don't finish the tech/civic. The exception for me is civics that grant governors. I want those governor slots early, whether I am going for Magnus + Provision first or Pingala + Connoussier.

Early settlers vs. post-Early Empire depends a lot on that first city. If I can get it to grow to size 6 on it's own before EE is finished, I'm inclined to stay single city until then. If not, I will typically build 1 settler so I can get a second city to size 2 and the first at size 4 to get the EE inspiration. The only time these days I have 3 early-ish cities is if I actually get religious settlements and I already have a settler built (or mostly built) or if I have an early Hercules opportunity and there is value in popping out 3 campuses or 3 holy sites really fast and early (or a combination of the 2).

It's not just EE for the bonus hammers, but ancestral hall before settling to get the free builder that can really save a lot of production time. Feudalism then making both the free builders and purchased builders 66% more useful that makes it so powerful (to the point where I love turn 50 Anansi just to go very quickly from PP to Feudalism). Also, waiting for EE for expansion allows you to do Pingala + 1 promotion first. You can build that first settler without Magnus and the 3rd and 4th governor slots become available back-to-back and allow Magnus + Provision to be in place just-in-time.

Try it both ways and see what delayed settling feels like. Works better if you have plenty of food in your starting city.

 

[Qwan]

Setters vs Early Empire: unless you have some high-food producing tiles, I find it takes too long for my first city to reach pop 6. Usually I get it to pop 3-4, focus on production to get a settler, and get the Early Empire boost with pop 4 + pop 2. [This is at Deity.] Then yes I use the +50% Settler card for the next couple of settlers. Although sometimes I do have high-producing food tiles next to my first city. But consider, how many useful tiles can you work? If you generate one builder to improve 3 tiles (for Craftmanship), that's only 3 good tiles. You may need to expand borders before having more good tiles to work.

Eurekas & Inspirations: as noted above, only completing techs and civics increases the cost of districts; getting the boost does not. There's a slight advantage for getting a Eureka or Inspiration early. The boost is worth 40% of the learning cost. But techs and civics get 20% cheaper the next Era (unless ahead of that Era). So getting a boost the next Era is only worth 40%*80% = 32% of the current learning cost, compared to getting the boost this Era. So that's a reason not to wait. However, when the Era is nearly ending, and I know I won't get a Golden Age, I may delay a Eureka, so I can use it for the next Era score dedication.

When I first learned of district pricing (see https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/civ-vi-district-discounts.27783/), I went overboard trying to use the formulas to make my districts as cheap as possible. This badly warped my development. For example, if I delayed building any Campuses until I had plenty of Holy Sites, I wouldn't get the boost for Recorded History. "A Stitch in Time Saves Nine". Also note that the increase in district cost is linear, which means percentage-wise it's decreasing. Consequently, locking in the price of early districts is more important than locking in the price of later districts. In particular, I usually want to lock in the first district as early as possible, to get the State Workforce boost: one of Holy Site, Campus, Encampment. After that, I generally build many of the same kind of districts, so that the first 1-2 of a new type become cheaper. What types of districts do I postpone? Entertainment (almost always), Theater (usually), Harbor (if I'm mostly inland), Holy Site (unless I'm going for a religion), Encampment (unless it's first, or I need housing), Industrial Zone (since that's learned relatively late). Once you've built (or acquired) about 10 districts, you can build a new type more cheaply. I do not delay learning tech to keep lower that district threshold.

Builders: you get the most out of the tiles you work if they are improved. It is a weakness of the AI that they don't improve all such. On the other hand, improving all the tiles in your border is excessive: a new city, with pop 1, surely doesn't need all six adjacent tiles improved right away. I improve what I can use, and strategics, and luxuries. Waiting until I get Feudalism to get extra builds before improving a strategic resource that I could sell to buy that Watermill to boost Construction so I could build Lumbermills? Civ is an exponential game: small benefits early are worth larger benefits later. Chopping, formerly overpowered, still has its place, just don't go wild about it. (And the value of chopping slowly increases with techs and civics learned, anyways.) I do delay producing builders when I'm nearing Feudalism: I start them, and finish them when I can employ Serfdom.

Plaza/Ancestral Hall: this is a tough one. My best friend and I vehemently disagree about it -- he loves it, I generally prefer Audience Chamber. But he likes to play at King level on a large map, often deleting 1-2 civs and some city-states, because he likes to have room to expand. I play at Deity on a standard map, deleting no civs or city-states. Consequently, I have to expand early to avoid getting too "hemmed in", and the government building is too expensive for me to wait for. Also, I don't like timing the Serfdom card to founding cities. Also, he likes building the Plaza early, while I often have trouble finding room for it. Finally, you'll probably build government plaza buildings in a highly productive, early-founded city. I don't want to feel I have to build all my settlers there, just because of Ancestral Hall's bonus; I have other things to build there. Like other districts!

 

[greenOak]

Waiting for EE before producing settlers is simply way too long. Even my second settler is usually built before EE. My typical build order (on deity) is scout -> scout -> settler -> settler. It's admittedly somewhat greedy, and sometimes I'll have to insert a slinger or two in somewhere, but establishing cities early is a big advantage.

It's worth waiting a few turns for feudalism but not anymore. Avoiding getting builders because you don't have feudalism is asinine. One timing trick I've used to some success, involves chopping/buying 4-5 settlers after getting ancestral hall (something you want to do anyways) with the intention of settling most the cities within 10 turns or so. These cities go monument first, then builder second. The 3-charge AH builder will aid in this. You'll also usually place a district to lock its price in. With some luck, you can get these cities finishing their builders soon after researching feudalism giving your empire a burst of 5-charge builders to play with.

One thing to keep in mind about buying tiles is that they're cheaper earlier in the game. I'm not sure about gold being needed more early - I find you need it throughout the course of the game. You should also keep in mind district placement when settling cities. You don't want to a bunch of your cities needing to buy out to 3rd ring to place their first district - that will siphon your gold real fast.

 

[Qwan]

My typical build order (on deity) is scout -> scout -> settler -> settler. It's admittedly somewhat greedy, and sometimes I'll have to insert a slinger or two in somewhere, but establishing cities early is a big advantage.

I'm impressed. Usually I have to build another military unit, like a slinger, before I finish that 1st settler, mainly to deal with barbarians. And I like a builder before the 2nd settler, to use for my capitol and that 1st settler's city. Then I build a trader, while waiting to finish Early Empire, or dump production into a district.

What size map do you play on?

 

[greenOak]

Mostly standard or large. I usually play map scripts with lots of room to expand (lakes, seven seas, primordial, highlands), where having two scouts is almost a necessity. Probably better to go scout -> slinger on maps with less space.

As for the builder, ideally I buy it with gold, or even better pop him from a goody hut. I have gone for the builder after my first settler before though.

 

[PiR]

I read that this can increase the cost of your districts and should be avoided?

Nothing should be avoided. Play with your own style!

Yes, it's better to make settlers when they cost less hammers and better to generate 5-charges builders. But what if you need some other card even more? It depends on your game, what your objectives are, etc.
So my general advice would be: use those concepts you learn, keep them in mind, but don't be enslaved by them.

 

[comatosedragon]

I don't play deity (immortal is as high as I go); but a settler is always my 2nd build. As soon as I hit pop 2. Waiting until pop 6 just isn't my playstyle. I almost always try to have 3 cities (cap +2) by turn ~ 45. First builder is usually purchased, unless I have a 2nd High production city.

 

[jehtro777]

I've won many games on deity. I would never wait for Early Empire to run out more settlers. I'm also a chronic restarter after the ancient era where I've continually played with my build orders. Unless you get Anansi or you have a civ that pulls high culture early, waiting for Early Empire to unlock is WAY too late to make a settler.

Districts become more expensive as you unlock tech and civics. So, it as advantageous to place the district early even though, you won't build it and then work on something else.

I used to make builders early, but I've honestly gotten away from it. You have the chance of tiles getting pillaged early by barbs. However, there are civs that GREATLY benefit from an early builder. The Cree, Maya, and Inca all play VERY strong with an early builder. I'd personally save chops for a wonder or not at all. The YouTube personalities I have found over chop IMHO. This is even more true in Apocalypse mode where forest is HIGH value. Forest burns make insane tile yields. However, in games where I am pushing for appeal, I heavily chop the rainforests.

As far as a fail proof opener? There is none really. It depends on the civ, and the map layout a lot of the time. I can give you some guidance though to an extent. Make an early scout or even two. They are super high value early in the game for all the discoveries. Second, scouts are going to help you have eyes on how fast you need to settle and early war threats. If you see you are going to get boxed in then you better move to settle or you may need to push military or a hero if another civ is very close. If you see there is plenty of land then perhaps infrastructure is more beneficial. Also, a monument early is REALLY strong in Heroes and Legends mode. I've goaded the AI into many surprise wars leaving a hero like Hunanpu with 1 turn to build only to switch to him last minute and butcher them.

As far as timing: Shoot to get at least three cities in the ancient era or two cities with districts as a minimum. Obviously, this depends on what game modes you are playing as Heroes mode I have found accelerates your development early. You can do even better than this depending on your start. For instance, this last game I got 3 cities and 2 districts in my Ancient Era opener thanks to two high yielding spice tiles.