[GS] So confused about timing Districts, Settlers and Builders

[yung.carl.jung]

*Looks at his TR count*
*It's still only one*

I see you're a man of culture as well. Medieval Faires Inspiration is a trap, and I can never get it, ever. Some Inspirations were simply not meant to be done, at all. Hello Globalization

Oh I don't diss the culture here. I would very much like to get all the inspirations. But getting 3 marketplaces up for 4 trade routes, that's tough.

If anything, I get the inspiration with lighthouses, not markets. so yeah, maybe when you're playing Japan or another Civ with a Harbor boost would I try for that. Where those unique CH at?

Good luck on your Deity run.
I do think there's a natural slowdown in the game around turn 80-100.

Exactly. I notice it in every single game. I call it the classic mid game slump. It doesn't necessarily come on T80-100, I think it comes dependant on how long you expand and how quickly develop your cities obviously, but it's always around the midgame. Eurekahs/Inspos are harder, Culture/Science costs increase a lot but you're not spiking in a long time. Lots of factors play together, but the phenomenon is so noticeable.

 

[walkerjks]

I think I've misunderstood what I've been reading. I've been having a devil of a time coordinating expansion and building districts. To be more specific, I can't figure out how anyone: (a) gets Political Philosophy by T50; or (b) gets a district built in time for Early Empire. I've gotten PP by T53, but that was using the Romans, with a pretty lucky start. As to EE, I'm pretty well lost. I don't buy builders like the OP does, but I agree that T40 seems awfully late to start pushing settlers if my goal is to have 10 cities by T100, and enough military to fend off the hordes.

You have to get some boosted culture from somewher - you can't be stuck at less than 5 from population alone. It could be inherent to the civ (Gorgo is probably the fastest to PP in normal situations). Might be a wonder. Might be an envoy at one or two cultural CS. I tend to use the educator and the culture promotion with the first two governor slots, though obviously that promotion comes after you have all the PP pre-reqs. I still have time to get Magnus with provisions before my ancestral hall is done (which is when I start spamming settlers beyond the initial 2 or 3 (if religious settlements was my pantheon). Worst case, build (or buy if you have the money from tiles or CSs) some monuments. But you need some sort fo culture boost. I will slot monuments after campuses are built but before libraries when I need them. Would prefer not to have to build a single monument all game (and I play for cultural wins!), but sometimes you have to.

 

[Victoria]

Hello Globalization

3 airports? If you are playing With tonnes of cities and science you don’t need it. If you are not then maybe you can. I can.

Exactly. I notice it in every single game. I call it the classic mid game slump. It doesn't necessarily come on T80-100, I think it comes dependant on how long you expand and how quickly develop your cities obviously, but it's always around the midgame. Eurekahs/Inspos are harder, Culture/Science costs increase a lot but you're not spiking in a long time. Lots of factors play together, but the phenomenon is so noticeable.

mid game eurekas come from early game planning. 2 harbour&2 shipyards... 2 CH. you don’t need the second one placed so early for fairies but you do need to sacrifice an early campus for one CH because you need that merchant. Sometimes you only have 3 Trade routes And the merchant (or admiral) gives you a 4th but if Marcus Linus Crassus comes up rather than a trade route I need, I am happy. Of course you do not need fairies if you are cultured enough but there are a lot of balls to juggle here. Bottom line is you are swapping production for culture,
Shipyards are hard but It a way to seaports which give you 15% on science projects and you don’t always get Hong Kong and Pingala cannot always be in both cities.
I like SV, lots to plan early.

 

[lotrmith]

Fairies
Dat autocorrect

 

[yung.carl.jung]

3 airports? If you are playing With tonnes of cities and science you don’t need it. If you are not then maybe you can. I can.
mid game eurekas come from early game planning. 2 harbour&2 shipyards... 2 CH. you don’t need the second one placed so early for fairies but you do need to sacrifice an early campus for one CH because you need that merchant. Sometimes you only have 3 Trade routes And the merchant (or admiral) gives you a 4th but if Marcus Linus Crassus comes up rather than a trade route I need, I am happy. Of course you do not need fairies if you are cultured enough but there are a lot of balls to juggle here. Bottom line is you are swapping production for culture,
Shipyards are hard but It a way to seaports which give you 15% on science projects and you don’t always get Hong Kong and Pingala cannot always be in both cities.
I like SV, lots to plan early.

I never have so much of a problem with the ones you mention, because I love Harbors and CH. Some I skip on purpose (as we have discussed above), but some I find pretty difficult to get on a regular basis, like killing a unit with a musket. I am often not at war and there are no barbs around.

 

[Victoria]

like killing a unit with a musket.

I never have so much of a problem with the ones you mention, because I love Harbors and CH. Some I skip on purpose (as we have discussed above), but some I find pretty difficult to get on a regular basis, like killing a unit with a musket. I am often not at war and there are no barbs around.

Agree on this one, either you are in the right place for it or not depending on disposition. It is a bit of an oddity but that’s fine. It’s rare you can get everything you want in this life, at least this is a single outlier while the CH ones are significant in number.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

However you do need to get to PP pretty fast. It is in fact possible to get it in the early 30’s but that is thanks to a new natural wonder.

This has to be very rare.
I must have played 15 to 20 practice games as Simon in the last few days.
All Standard Deity Games, up to turn 50 to 100.
Not even close to early 30s PP.
I'm pretty sure I have never rolled a close Natural Wonder giving that much culture since the new content.
Not that it can't happen but you have to be playing something like Abundant Resources, etc etc.
Apocalyptic Mode kinda messes things up a bit as well with Floods and Volcanoes going off every few turns.

 

[AlanC9]

3 airports? If you are playing With tonnes of cities and science you don’t need it. If you are not then maybe you can. I can.

Globalization is one of those inspirations I can never bring myself to try for. Maybe playing on a larger map size would make things different, but that many airports is just a huge charge on total empire production, and I've usually got more useful stuff to build

 

[Victoria]

This has to be very rare.

Yes, I got it with Kupe

I've usually got more useful stuff to build

At that stage of the game.... what?

 

[walkerjks]

Mansa is a very good leader for early PP if you want to try it as long as you start by a big enough desert. Turn 34 PP in my current game.

1 cultural city-state + quick 2nd city (fast pantheon = fast settler) settled in the middle of a desert for quick growth + 2 tiles of Uluru + monument first build + Pingala + Kumasai suzerain(quest + goody hut envoy)/trade route = 17.1 culture/turn at turn 30 (and 8.8 science - a bit slow there, but no big deal).

Not a typical start, but I did turn 39 in another Mansa game with fewer lucky breaks.

 

[enKage]

Yeah, Medieval Faires and guilds are not worth it. Trade routes are still good, at least for some civs (Rome comes to mind, if you can Congo-line your cities.

But basically you get these 2 at the same time as Cree or Persia by building 2 markets, sometimes Mali or every other civ if you take +1 route merchant

 

[ISuckAtCiv]

Hey all, OP here. Well, my attempt at the GotM did not go as well as I hoped - I think I need to study more on the basics of domination victory. In my attempt I rushed to 4 archers and 5 warriors and tried to pick off my nearest neighbor around turn 50 or so. Capturing the first two cities went fine, but I got bogged down with loyalty issues and the cities kept flipping. Before I knew it I'd lost 25 turns and was still struggling to keep just one foreign capital. How the heck are people getting turn 94 victories?!?!

After giving up on that attempt, I reloaded a few times but ended up having the same issues - I tried a horseman rush, I tried waiting for Victor and the +2 loyalty card with a garrisoned unit, I tried forward settling to boost my own loyalty pressure...still no great results. I do feel like I could probably get a science victory on Deity now with the things I've learned in this thread but my military game is very weak.

Can anybody recommend good threads or guides on domination tactics and strategies? Also, have mounted units been nerfed for city capture recently? Once walls go up it seems like they're pretty useless.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

It sounds like you need to aggressively forward settle your neighbors more. Chopping out food in adjacent cities and conquered cities also helps majorly. I always bring a few 1 or 2 charge builders with my army. Lastly, having conquered cities flip is totally normal. Focus on taking their high pop cities. Once you have, say, 3/4 cities under your control at the same time they will stop flipping. Being in a constant Golden Age also helps.

 

[lotrmith]

Take the capital and one or two surrounding cities, then accept a peace proposal that includes ceding the captured cities to you.

 

[ISuckAtCiv]

It sounds like you need to aggressively forward settle your neighbors more. Chopping out food in adjacent cities and conquered cities also helps majorly. I always bring a few 1 or 2 charge builders with my army. Lastly, having conquered cities flip is totally normal. Focus on taking their high pop cities. Once you have, say, 3/4 cities under your control at the same time they will stop flipping. Being in a constant Golden Age also helps.

Take the capital and one or two surrounding cities, then accept a peace proposal that includes ceding the captured cities to you.

Thanks guys, I'll try those ideas. Sounds like maybe I need to bring a few more units than I have been. What size army and of what type units do you guys generally use as an invasion force pre-walls and post walls? Battering Rams and Siege Towers no longer work for mounted units, correct?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

yes, correct. typically I like at least 4 warr, 4 archers and a few horses. this way you can have one warr/archer die and still get all Eurekahs (for muskets/xbows/field cannons). the more the merrier. catapults are optional, the later the more useless they become. more than 2 is overkill. rams are only good if you get early warrior upgrades imo.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Hey all, OP here. Well, my attempt at the GotM did not go as well as I hoped - I think I need to study more on the basics of domination victory. In my attempt I rushed to 4 archers and 5 warriors and tried to pick off my nearest neighbor around turn 50 or so. Capturing the first two cities went fine, but I got bogged down with loyalty issues and the cities kept flipping. Before I knew it I'd lost 25 turns and was still struggling to keep just one foreign capital. How the heck are people getting turn 94 victories?!?!

After giving up on that attempt, I reloaded a few times but ended up having the same issues - I tried a horseman rush, I tried waiting for Victor and the +2 loyalty card with a garrisoned unit, I tried forward settling to boost my own loyalty pressure...still no great results. I do feel like I could probably get a science victory on Deity now with the things I've learned in this thread but my military game is very weak.

Can anybody recommend good threads or guides on domination tactics and strategies? Also, have mounted units been nerfed for city capture recently? Once walls go up it seems like they're pretty useless.

As stated from better players...
Forget science and building things.
Focus on Culture.
Focus on Warrior x 3 out of the gate.
Concentrate on killing camps and getting all golden ages.
Focus on Iron and Horses.
Forgo building any districts.
Start your wars asap.
Ask the AI to join your war or joint war for a huge trade deal.
Steal Settlers and Builders.
Pillage but you may have to take cities or capitals faster and forgo a few pillages.
Catapults seem to be a thing with Simon but I like rushing over to Knights.
Use specific CS's to your advantage.

It took me 118 turns to finish the GOTM so I am not the person to give advice.
I noticed those that finished faster went with lower science and culture.
They mass chopped horses and catapults using their Great Generals, crushing the AI.
It seems to me that you are making huge improvements and are getting the hang of it.

 

[ISuckAtCiv]

yes, correct. typically I like at least 4 warr, 4 archers and a few horses. this way you can have one warr/archer die and still get all Eurekahs (for muskets/xbows/field cannons). the more the merrier. catapults are optional, the later the more useless they become. more than 2 is overkill. rams are only good if you get early warrior upgrades imo.

Cool, I'm going to give it another shot tonight.

It took me 118 turns to finish the GOTM so I am not the person to give advice.

That's still extremely impressive! I can't even win domination at all yet, and if I could I think it would be a turn 300+ victory!!

It seems to me that you are making huge improvements and are getting the hang of it.

Oh I don't know about huge improvements, but I have definitely learned a lot and I think if I go back down to Emperor I will be much better than I was a month ago for sure. (But now that I've tasted Deity I kind of just want to stay here until I can beat it...)

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Oh I don't know about huge improvements, but I have definitely learned a lot and I think if I go back down to Emperor I will be much better than I was a month ago for sure. (But now that I've tasted Deity I kind of just want to stay here until I can beat it...)

WARNING!!
This post has GOTM 89 information in it so do not open or read if you plan to play!

Spoiler Write up to turn 3 :

Sounds like you just need more practice.
I went back and replayed 15 turns of that GOTM to illustrate the difference.
In my original game I scouted West because it seemed more logical in my mind.
However, after having knowledge this time I scouted East because I know the Culture CS is next door.
This is why I hate replaying the game with known information.
Yes it is good for practice but it completely changes the dynamic compared to playing blind.
For me personally that is.
Anyways... I settle in place.
I build Warrior First and work the Deer for the 2F3P.
I move my warrior through the capital over the river onto the SE Hill.
The next turn I move into the SE Jungle and the Culture CS meets me!
Kinda HUGE moving to over 3 Culture Per Turn now compared to my original game.
Boosting becomes a slight problem.

Spoiler Turn 3 GOTM 89 :

Spoiler Write up to turn 8 :

I forgot Armagh was to the south so I went NE to find the other CS's I remembered.
Armagh ended up meeting my second warrior anyway.
Kinda big having all these first meets!

Spoiler T8 Screenshot :

Spoiler Write up to turn 15 :

So I built Warrior x 3 in this game only.
I am 1 turn away from getting my 3rd warrior built and 4th total.
The barbs might kill my promoted warrior on the next turn.
I have managed to meet 6 CS's with 5 first meets.
More Gold pouring in and planning to buy a builder.
On turn 15 I was able to get Religious Settlements which gives me a Free City!
In my first game I didn't get this pantheon choice.
I know where the Iron is but should I race for the horses instead?
I'm at 14 out of 25 era score and haven't met any Civs just yet.
I missed out on a barb camp which hurts as the CS's got it instead.
Hope this helped a little bit for you.

Spoiler T 14 and 15 Screenshots :

 

[ISuckAtCiv]

Thanks, Fluphen Azine - this is pretty similar to how I started my replay yesterday.

Spoiler :

I sent my warrior east like you this time, and got the free envoys for all 5 of the CS's in the immediate vicinity. I did still build Scout -> Slinger -> Settler though, and put that first expansion city on the horses to the northeast, and with my free Religious Settlements settler I built directly between the horses and olives to the north.

Then I got the Agoge card and started spamming out archers and warriors, and went south to take Kwango, which is about where I am at turn 45. Definitely going better than my earlier attempts!