So what now? How do we continue?

[raystuttgart]

If your team here is vanishing and the project may stop, ...

The WTP team is not vanishing - it is simply small and WTP is really big - and maybe the way we are organized also changes now.
At the moment it seems we are mostly organized / cooperating as a "modders community" sharing work with each other.

It was also never "my team" by the way - I am just a modder like all others. WTP never had a "boss".
I did not even found WTP. I just joined it after "my retirement from modding after RaR".

I know you will probably not be interested

Correct, I am not interested to join another mod project.
Simply because I also do not play any other mod.

I want to be a private modder at the moment that can implement whatever he wants - offering it though to WTP core mod and others.
But if I mod anything at all it will be based on / for WTP - but again other modders / mod projects may use it as well of course.

The members aren't fleeing ...

Correct.

We are just working more independently or let us call it losely coordinated now.
I basically consider us a modders community with the same interest: WTP.

For now I will take a creative break during the summer time - like other "modders community members" do as well.
I will simply relax a bit until more modders of our modding community become active again. (And hopefully also new ones.)

@Nightinggale
I know that you are still working and do not take a break right now.
I will thus try to continue supporting a bit during my "creative break".

----

Summary:

This discussion is not about if we continue modding or not.
Because I definitely will continue to mod - simply because it is fun to me.

This discussion is just about "How do we organize?".
"Organized team" or "cooperating community" ?

Right now I think we should organize as a "cooperating modders community".
Whenever we feel like it, we could merge some of our work again and publish another release.

----

Until then:

Just have fun modding.
(No expectations, no responsibilities, no pressure, no nothing, ...)

 

[brettschmitt]

Please don't kill off an active project like that. The members aren't fleeing and there is more activity than you make it out to be.

Sorry guys... didn't want to do like that!
We are just a little desperate for some help at our project...

And I knew anyway that Ray would not be available. Just could not resist to ask

 

[Nightinggale]

But if I mod anything at all it will be based on / for WTP - but again other modders / mod projects may use it as well of course.

That goes for the entire mod in general. We should share as much as possible because nobody has the manpower to create everything from scratch. Also I came up with the idea of sharing the DLL/python code to allow multiple mods to use the same should anybody be interested in creating their own Colonization mod.

We are just a little desperate for some help at our project...

That goes for all of us. We could all use more modders.

 

[inaiwae]

We could all use more modders.

especially ones that do not take whole summer off

<< whistles innocently while avoiding eye contact >>

 

[raystuttgart]

especially ones that do not take whole summer off

Taking time "off", is pretty normal.

If you are not motivated to mod at the moment and like to do other stuff for a while that is fine.
Enjoy your summer break and after that return to Civ4Col modding if or whenever you like.

Since there is also no plan to publish any release anytime soon, there is also no pressure, so right now is a good time to take a break.
Most importantly have fun whatever you do. If it is modding or taking a summer break does not matter.

Personally I am pefectly fine at the moment to simply "mod for fun and challenge" (to relax my brain a bit from work).
I try to create stuff that other modders may find interesting or useful but the rest I leave to the modding community ...

 

[modmod]

I guess most of the ones who talk about summer break are well earning westerners.

For many people summer/ good temperature is about extra work not about any break or vacation.

But for either reason summer hardly at the top of activity.

 

[raystuttgart]

I guess most of the ones ...
For many people ...

Reasons why people take a break from modding do not really matter. It is private business.
It may be taking time for family or going on vacation, it may be extra work, it may be health, it may be ...

Also, when it comes to modding there is no point in making a difference between "westerners" and the rest of the world.
We might talk about motivation, available time and skills considering modding. And maybe even about reliability and dedication.

But as I said, it simply comes down to this.

Most importantly have fun whatever you do.
If it is modding or taking a summer break does not matter.

 

[raystuttgart]

So ok, things are kind of back to "normal".
Basically the WTP core modders are working on their branches again.

How we call it - mod team or modding community - does not make a difference.
It is the same people, with the same skills and they cooperate more or less as before.

The only thing we threw over board is the "veto" on features and all unnecessary discussion, planning and organisation.
We simply implement what we want in our branches and then see how it works out in the end.

----

It also feels better now. Less stress and more fun.
There was a bit too much pointless discussion without results.

It does not matter how fast we progress.
The only thing we should focus on is simply having fun.

It does not matter how many we are.
It only matters that the ones remaining enjoy modding.

It does not matter if we agree on the content we create.
Stuff we do not like simply gets ignored.

It does not matter how often we release.
Work all modders like may simply be merged whenever ready.

----

Summary:

The only thing that matters is that we actually create something.
And of course that we support, cooperate and share.

----

So let us just have fun modding.

 

[vissercsp]

Hi Guys - If the team continues, I am more than willing to be part of it. In the past months I have been fumbling around the mod trying to figure out how things work. And that, to my humble opinion, is what may hamper the WTP team. Many people still play the modded versions (I know I do...), but only a handful can do the modding. And that places a big burden on them, so I can imagine.

Lately, I have been playing to change the appearance of some of the ships I use (see below). Am I good at it..? No, still learning... Do I love it..? Yes, and it gives me great fulfilment when I succeed in changing something... Currently, I am searching through the XML files how to alter the chance of capturing ships, because the current low chance of capturing I find too annoying at a personal level and not realistic when it comes to piracy (a large part of their income came from selling captured merchants). Not much luck so far, but that is a different story...

In short: Train / teach me, and I will help and dedicate time to this project.

 

[raystuttgart]

If the team continues, I am more than willing to be part of it.

Actually I think we are more of a "modder's community" now.
Meaning that all of us can work on whatever we want and later simply share it.

But of course we still have a common interest, which is WTP core mod.
Thus we stil cooperate for things that all of us want to have.

To become part of this "modder's community" is simple:

1. Start creating the things you like but do not wait for somebody to tell you what to do.
2. Post about it and if you like also discuss how to improve it or request support if needed.
3. Once you are done simply share it and if the rest of us modders likes it, it may be integrated into WTP core mod.

... but only a handful can do the modding.

It simply takes time and motivation to figur out how things work. Perseverance is the key to become really experienced.
People like myself have been modding this game for many years and we did not know everythig from the start either.

In the past months I have been fumbling around the mod trying to figure out how things work.

That is how all of us started. We tried and figured out certain things.
When we could not find out on our own we asked for advice and help.

Lately, I have been playing to change the appearance of some of the ships I use (see below).

Sounds nice, we definitely need people that know how to do graphical modding.
Not all of us need to become programmers.

Am I good at it..? No, still learning... Do I love it..? Yes, ... and it gives me great fulfilment when I succeed in changing something...

That is the most important: Have fun.
The more you understand the more fun it gets.

Currently, I am searching through the XML files how to alter the chance of capturing ships, ...

Civ4GlobalDefinesAlt.xml :
BASE_CHANCE_CAPTURING_SHIPS
(100 equals 10% chance. Bump it up if you want to.)

In short: Train / teach me, and I will help and dedicate time to this project.

Agreed. That's a deal.
If you take it serious we will teach you.

Otherwise:
Welcome on board of our small modder's community.
The ship may sail slowly but it still sails steadily west towards new worlds.

 

[vissercsp]

Agreed. That's a deal.
If you take it serious we will teach you.

...When...? ;-)

 

[raystuttgart]

...When...? ;-)

Check your private conversations.
(Inbox here in CivFanatics.)

 

[raystuttgart]

@ WTP core modders:

We should at some point discuss about finishing / merging some branches again.
I think none of us really know what the others have already done or are currently working on.

We need to get some kind of overview and common base for further development again.
We are drifting apart rapidly if we continue like this and merging will become a hell of an effort.

 

[Nightinggale]

We should at some point discuss about finishing / merging some branches again.

I'm approaching the end of my branch. InfoArrays and EnumMaps will now be way less prone to bugs and consist of easier to read code (read: makes it possible to expand on them again). My next step is then to use this to allow an EnumMap of class instances, more specifically an EnumMap of InfoArray instances. This way the cache for profession yield costs will allow looping all non-zero values rather than looping all values and test if it's zero. This should boost performance of the AI due to the greatly reduced number of checks. It's also a nice proof of concept to allow me to test an EnumMap of class instances to make sure it's working as intended.

According to my plan I should have been done by now, but I ran into issues, partly due to lower number of modding hours than planned. I also did some regression testing to make sure nothing broke, not even savegame backward compatibility.

Once I'm done I will merge and move on to the next task, which would be to allow professions to use an InfoArray of yields to tell how many it produces of each. Well I might merge yield categories first.

I think none of us really know what the others have already done or are currently working on.

We need to get some kind of overview and common base for further development again.

We have the tools needed to have an overview of tasks and who is working on that. It's all in GitHub. We just aren't using it right now. That's something I plan to look into, but time spend on that will be time spend on not coding. Also I have a reasonably good idea of what each person is doing right now.

We are drifting apart rapidly if we continue like this and merging will become a hell of an effort.

Merging my work should intentionally be easy. I only worked on EnumMap and InfoArray internals and calls like get and set are set to be the same meaning the impact on other files should be minimal. I don't think anybody else work on anything, which is directly conflicting meaning merging shouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[Fürstbischof]

As far as I know, all changes made to .xml text files are part of the develop branch and can be safely merged. I've committed all fixes during the last week, so that the files are now up-to-date. With my upcoming vacation and a bunch of pressing tasks, there will be no further commits from me until mid-September.

Revising the .xml text files is an ongoing process which is not finished yet. Clicking every link in the .xml text files of the pedia category Concepts revealed a huge number of non-functional links which have been fixed by now. All other pedia texts need to be checked eventually, too.

 

[raystuttgart]

Community as a whole still leans back and watches the old guys modding ...
(Except maybe a few positive exceptions of new modders getting started and occassionaly supporting.)

Still do not understand why that is the case.
Modding itself can be pretty fun actually.

-------

There are so many possibilties to get active, even as a beginner:

Spoiler :

With most basic knowledge of XML or Worldbuilder:

1. Improving / writing texts
2. Improving / creating Maps
...

With better XML experience stuff like this:

1. A simple new Python Event (using existing XML)
2. A simple new Goody Event (using existing XML)
3. A simple new Native Village Event (using existing XML)
...

With a bit of XML and programming experience this:

1. A complex new Python Event (adding DLL or Python logic)
2. A new Goody Event (adding DLL or Python logic)
3. A new Native Village Event (adding DLL or Python logic)
4. DLL Diplomacy Event (implemented in DLL logic
...

With a bit of graphical experience:

1. Improving existing Buttons
2. Improving existing Terrain Feature Graphics
3. Improving existing Bonus Ressource Graphics
4. Improving existing Improvement Graphics
...

With a bit of XML and graphical exerience stuff like this:

1. Supporting programmers with graphics to create new game content (e.g. Bonus Ressources)
2. Using L-System to match Bonus Ressources, Improvements, Terrain Features, ...
...

-------

But well this simply does not happen and to figure out why feels tedious to me.
All I know is that I started to lose my motivation and thus will take a longer break again.

The next 2 weeks:

I will finish a few more things in branch "Plains" the next 2 weeks - just so it is not left too incompleted.
(I e.g. still need to split the "Forest" into "Evergreen Forest" and "Leaf Forest".)

After that 2 weeks:

Then I will take a break from Civ4Col modding for about a year and see what community does.
(I will lay down all - or at least most - Civ4Col modding activities for that time and play or maybe also mod some other games again.)

-------

@Nightinggale @devolution

Current status of my work in "Plains":

I do not consider "Plains" to be finished (even after my commits in the next 2 weeks).
So it is probably not a good idea to fully merge it into "develop" - I would advice not to do so.

It is for example not fully balanced, Pedia texts are missing, MapScripts or Maps are not updated, some Bonus Ressources are not animated, ...
However nothing in there crashes the game and it should generally be "playable" by manually placing everything by Worldbuilder.

Considering usage of branch "Plains":

Generally there may be nice and useful stuff in there thay you guys may like to use.
To finish all the stuff in "Plains" all by myself is however more effort than I am willing to take right now.

Everything I created in there may be used by WTP modders or other community members of course.
Changes in the branch "Plains" directly however should not happen without my consent.

Occassional updates in branch "Plains":

Otherwise please leave branch "Plains" open though. I might commit a small updated here and there.
E.g. if I occassionaly play, find an issue that I may correct or a befriended modder shares an improvement with me.

Maybe once a month I may even invest a few hours.
But that is pretty much the limit I have set myself.

Contacting me - in reasonable manners:

I will still be around and read posts and I will also answer small questions of course.
If you guys want to contact me, the best way is most likely to send me a private message here at CivFanatics.

However please do not annoy me by trying to convince me to continue modding or discussions about modding new stuff.
A break is a break and not intended to be disrupted all the time. - I want to actually have some time playing games again.

----

Summary:

Keep having fun modding.

I will take a longer break from Civ4Col-modding until I am motivated again.
During that time I will still be around but hardly active. Contact me if necessary.

Still looking forward to see your progress in the next year.
Of course I wish WTP and this community all the best.

 

[modmod]

@raystuttgart

I did check out Plains.
Well not good at github (never was active user) so a bit confused what is in it and not.

Yet looks like stuff missing - or at least I have no clue where to find.
- removed hardcoding for yields which use no storage from yieldinfos.xml -> the xml tag

Does "plains" includes?
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rays-assorted-collection-of-small-improvements.671377/
Especially:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...mall-improvements.671377/page-2#post-16134235
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...mall-improvements.671377/page-3#post-16135062

By the way - does it still stands?
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...n-of-small-improvements.671377/#post-16123904
Or it is ready to play - based on this:

However nothing in there crashes the game and it should generally be "playable" by manually placing everything by Worldbuilder.

Other stuff:
---
Any part of the planned health overhaul (based on terrain/ features/ bonuses) included?
---
Where can I find the new yields?
---


Sorry if I am too incomprehensible.


By all means would be nice if a merged update like a 3.1 were publised before you make a year long break from modding. There are too much stuff publised on the forum, which for sure not in the latest release.

 

[raystuttgart]

Purpose of "Plains":

"Plains" contains everything I created since the last public release of WTP core mod. (Release 3.0.1)
However it does not contain the things other modders like @Fürstbischof, @Nightinggale, @devolution, @Kendon, ... created.

"Plains" is intended for modders to create a mod not for players to play a mod.
"Plains" is just a massive collection of modding functionality, graphics, small improvements, bugfixes, features and game content.

"Plains" is not intended directly itself as a "release version". (See below it is not even fully finished.)
"Plains" is a "development branch" that could be merged with other development branches to actually create a "release version".

-----

Status of "Plains":

If you e.g. do not compile a new DLL you will have issues for sure or most new content will simply not work.
And if you use "Plains" alone you would miss out all the bugfixes, improvements or small features all the other modders did.

And a lot of stuff in there is not even fully finished - e.g. missing adjustments in Maps, missing adjustments in MapScripts, missing animations or missing Pedia texts.
So if at the other WTP modders should do "cherry picking" of things they like and are also motivated to finish (e.g. adjust MapScripts or write Colopedia entries).

-----

About being a "private modder" / now taking a break:

As I said, I never had plans to publish a release myself again.
I had told many times that I had become a private modder not publishing himself anymore.

I just shared content with other modders - I was especially hoping that WTP team would like to use some of my stuff.
"Plains" is kind of my "farewell present" (before my break) and I would really love to see at least some of that stuff used in future WTP releases.

-----

By all means would be nice if a merged update like a 3.1 were publised before you make a year long break from modding.

That is not my decision anymore.

The remaining WTP modders and supporters have to decide about future releases.
(What they want to release and when they want to release.)

If somebody has questions about my work I am still around to answer them.
If during test phases somebody finds issues or bugs in my work I am still willing to at least try to fix.

-----

Any part of the planned health overhaul (based on terrain/ features/ bonuses) included?
Where can I find the new yields?

It is simply not done - actually not even close to being done.

Thus neither the "Health Overhaul" nor the "New Yields" are contained in "Plains".
(It would simply have broken the branch or would have caused issues.)

Once I am motivated again to return to Civ4Col modding I might continue working on that stuff.
Especially the "New Yields" I have already put a lot of effort into for e.g. concept design and collecting / creating graphics.

-----

Summary:

I shared everything that was already good enough to be integrated and finished in a public release.
The rest will now be decided by modding community.

As I said, it is a "farewell present" for the other modders.
It is not a release for the players - unless modders turn it into a release ...

 

[CptBadger]

So I haz a sad that Ray is gonna be leaving. I get it, having poured my soul into a (very different type of) project for years and feeling like I'm on my own, without support. That project is coming to an end (mostly because I just can't anymore.) So, after a brief reset, I guess I'm gonna finally learn this modding stuff. I've tried poking at it a few times, unsuccessfully. But never had the time to really get it down. With my politics crap done for the foreseeable future, I want to contribute to this project that I've enjoyed so much for many years now.

@Ray, so would you still like that list of western hemisphere wonders, when completed, for your own private activities? I've got a dozen or so good ones but really want to add to it.

 

[raystuttgart]

Guys, WTP is not my mod and I am not the only Civ4Col or WTP modder.
It actually gets really annoying to clarify that all the time ...

Simply continue modding and sharing.

There are many others around and they intend to continue modding to my knowledge or currently just take a break as well.
@Nightinggale, @devolution, @Fürstbischof, @Ramstormp, @Kendon, @vissercsp, @Moandor, @FlaviusBelisarius, @Mr. ZorG, @Schmiddie, @Raubwuerger , ...

... so would you still like that list of western hemisphere wonders, when completed, for your own private activities?

Simply post it somewhere here in the forum, when you are done.
Maybe another modder may do something with it, maybe I will try to use it when I return to Civ4Col modding.