Some beginners questions about Paradox games

[Derpy Hooves]

So, I've been watching some LP's of CK2, which looks absolutely fascinating, this is however my first Paradox game (excluding the Penumbra series and Amnesia) and considering the complexity I've seen just in CK2 I wonder if that's really the best place to start, especially considering what I've read about similar Paradox titles, that they tend to be heavily bugged upon release.

I will most likely get CK2 anyway but I'm wondering if you people would give me any recommendations for their other games, from what I've read their entire series looks fascinating, heavily focussing on intriguing parts of history, so it's mostly gameplay I'm after.

I have little doubt I will get a version of HoI as well, seeing as how part 3 had poorer reviews then 2, should I opt for 3, 2 or even 1?

 

[Blue Emu]

EU-3 (Europa Universalis III) is simpler, as are Rome and HOI-2.

HOI-3 (Hearts of Iron III) is fairly complex and had a pretty rocky release, but with the expansions Semper Fi and For the Motherland it's now an amazing game. A tremendously ambitious project, which took a year or two to really come together properly.

You'll find my real-life name in the HOI-3 game credits, by the way... so I may be a bit biased.

 

[GoodGame]

EU-3 is very inexpensive to pick up from Amazon, and even better get it during a Steam sale with all the patches and expansions. You might have to wait awhile (Summer maybe?) though. My only gripe with it is that dealing with periodic insurrections is pretty tedious. EU-3 with all expansions is probably the best example of a Paradox strategy game that was fully supported and eventually a hit.

I also have the original Victoria, and I'll say that one has quite a learning curve to it, and I've never quite enjoyed it other than to marvel at its complexity (and I like the opening theme music).

My impressions on Paradox strategy games is they are usually real-time pause-and-give-orders grand strategy games with a bit of Risk-like nature, but with much more complicated mechanisms. They border on simulation-like compared to lighter games like Sid Meier's Civilizations series. I gather from game reviews and my experiences is that they tend to be hit and miss in terms of being fun, though pretty original in concept.

 

[Derpy Hooves]

I guess I'll roll with HoI3 and EU3 then, guess I might pick up Victoria 2 at some point but I suspect that between these 3 games it will be a while before I need more. Then again I also want the Rome game if only for the history, tough decision.
Anyway, cheers, most likely I'll be trying out at least one of them tonight.

 

[Maniacal]

They go on sale on Steam, GamersGate (which is a sister company to Pdox) and other sites fairly often so it is easy to pick up their games (and their published games) cheaply and easily.

EU3: Chronicles has all four expansions in it and is probably one of the better ways to get into their games, although CKII has lots of tutorials that are actually helpful.

 

[Polycrates]

EU3 is a complete no-brainer; it's by far the most polished of the paradox stable, it's relatively accessible as these things go, and it has mods out the wazoo. Definitely get it with all the thousands of expansions (there's four or five at this point), which add tremendously to it. I would 100% recommend going with this one first.

Vicky 2 had a rocky beginning, but with the new AHD expansion it's actually really really good. It's very complicated under the hood, definitely - it models the world economy and the desires, needs and sociopolitical views of the people of the entire world in breathtaking depth - but it's not too hard to figure out the basics of what you the player need to do. It's probably the most "hands off" of the paradox stable, since your own influence is often very subtle and indirect.

HOI3 vs HOI2 is still a topic of considerable controversy, though partly because HOI3 had such an appallingly bad release. HOI3 has to be up there in the running for "most ambitious game ever released", and with the expansions and patches it's pretty close to realising that ambition. On the other hand, you might find that all a bit much, and while you can set AI control of pretty much whatever aspects you want, it's still not for everyone. It's also a bit lacking in character...HOI2 is a bit more accessible, a fair bit more characterful, and still a fantastic game. I'd almost suggest getting both on sale and seeing which you prefer.

CKII....from what everyone's saying about the demo, it doesn't actually look like a bug-ridden mess, but Paradox have an almost unbroken record of appallingly bad releases, so I'd be a little hesitant to start with this one. CK I was a fantastic game though, so I have every confidence that CKII will be amazing in a year or so, if it isn't already.

 

[Antilogic]

I find the Victorian time period to be the most interesting of them all, and Victoria 2 with the first expansion is a ton of fun. I still wish they had the HoI-style combat instead of EU3 to enable, ya know, large-scale flanking and other tactics that were developed during this time period, but to each his own.

Fair warning, there is a learning curve coming into these games. I think Rhye's mod was the best pre-Paradox introduction to their games, since it introduced stability, specific objectives, etc. Remember it's a long game, and try to pick a forgiving powerhouse at the beginning while you are learning (i.e. France in EU3).

...Paradox have an almost unbroken record of appallingly bad releases...

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Leonel]

EU3 is the best option if you're a beginner. Everything I learned about Paradox games, I started out with EU3. One important tip that took me a while to get was that if you have a casus belli against a nation, you have to actually select it from the side of the declare war window, directly under the X No Casus Belli option. Those are actually clickable.

 

[Set]

EU3 is the best option if you're a beginner. Everything I learned about Paradox games, I started out with EU3. One important tip that took me a while to get was that if you have a casus belli against a nation, you have to actually select it from the side of the declare war window, directly under the X No Casus Belli option. Those are actually clickable.

I did the same thing when I started playing.

@Derpy Hooves, definitely go with EUIII for you first paradox game. Follow up with Victoria 2 or CKII (I haven't played it but supposedly the first one was easy to learn). HOI is way compicated.

 

[Set]

Double post

 

[Blue Emu]

I would suggest Burgundy, Austria, France or England as a good starting country for your first game.

Burgundy has the best set of missions in the game... and once you've exhausted them, you can destroy France, form France yourself, and gain access to all the excellent French missions (plus scads of free cores). They also have one of the best initial slider set-ups of any country. A very easy country to play, if you can avoid getting eaten by France or stomped by the Holy Roman Emperor.

Austria also has good missions and a very solid position. They are well placed to become Holy Roman Emperor when the current (Bohemian) HRE Ruler dies. They are very strong diplomatically, and can expand peacefully (if slowly) by Royal Marriages and Inheritance. Their motto: Bella gerant alii, tu felix Austria, nube! (Let others make war; while you, happy Austria, marry).

France (aka "the Big Blue Blob") is one of the wealthiest and most powerful states in the world, and will become even richer and more powerful as it slowly absorbs its minor vassals and consolidates into a single country. France gets a number of excellent missions to further this end. The only two flies in the ointment are England (protected by its huge Navy) and Burgundy (a HRE state, and therefore protected by the HRE Emperor).

England is very well placed for a Colonization game, and with its huge Navy is almost immune to invasion. With the strategic mobility granted by their control of the sea, they are also well placed to play "The Spoiler", keeping the continental powers dead-locked by supporting the weaker side in any power-struggle and preventing any single continental power from gaining a decisive edge.

 

[Derpy Hooves]

The LP's made me somewhat hungry for some medieval setting so for now I just got CK2 that has occupied most of my free time the last 2 days.
A lot of that time has been spent figuring out HOW to actually play the game, but apart from a couple of kinks I think I've got it figured out pretty well right now, I have to say that the level of depth is absolutely astonishing, every tiny province perfectly made, and even changing names based on what culture occupies them and probably time.
I really enjoy the cerebral nature of this game, it might just be having to figure out how to play this type of game but it is incredibly involving and rewarding, in contrast to Civ games that I usually just tend to auto-pilot on for most of the game, funny how I feel so much more for the somewhat ugly, tiny still faces in CK2 then the dancing and prancing leaderheads in CiV, shows what a diplomatic system as well developed as this can do.
As far as bugs are concerned, I have not found any yet, somewhat to my surprise considering what I read about the usual state their games get released in.
I will probably get EU3 and the others eventually but for now CK2 almost exclusively occupies my gaming time and I can recomend it to anyone who likes history and cerebral games, so pretty much most people that come to this forum.

A question though, for someone who's playing this game or has played games that use the same mechanic, the demesne size limit, how is it calculated?
I get the impression that it is always somewhere between 5 and 9 and from what I read on a wiki about CK1 it was calculated there by one of your attributes (I think the one thats important for Chancellors), your chancellors attributes and a couple of other modifiers, is this also the case in CK2? From one of the tutorials I got the impression your success was measured by how much lands you left your heir, and it gave me impression that it was talking about duchies under the heirs direct control. So is there a way to grow the amount of demesnes you can directly hold that does not involve maxing the diplomacy stat in your chancellors to increase your limit?

 

[Rulle_Kebab]

When I got Europa Universalis III and all the add ons I was totally at a loss as well...
So I looked for guides and so on but got tired of reading... hehe.
Found these "lets play" videos by a dude called EugeneofSavoy18 on youtube that I found very enlightening...
There are some different lets plays by him and I find he gives a decent amount of information on what he does and what he bases his choices on...
I just picked a random one here for a link where he takes the Hedjaz tribe and gets them going:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_ycHBWLHCU

So once you get the game you can watch some of these to atleast give you an idea...
Crusader Kings II is a bit early I guess... haven't gotten it myself yet, tho I looked at the demo or preview for about 30 minutes but it seems like a nice game...
A game my matchmaking mom would love! hehehe