Some Beginners Questions

[LikeMike]

Hi,

actually I`m not really a beginner, I`ve been playing Civ games since the first one cam out (I skipped part 3). But I was always more of a casual player, playing on the second easiest difficulty and winning without thinking to much about specialization and the such. Now I am trying to do some of this stuff, but I always tend to come up with more or less jack of all trade cities. So I`ve got some questions for you:

Specialist Economy:
Alright, first let me try to explain this to see if I got it right: in a specialist economy you can set your research slider down, because most of your research comes with scientists in your cities. To get a lot of population in your cities for a lot of specialists you concentrate on building farms instead of cottages. Because of this a trait like financial wouldn`t make too much sense.

Did I get this right? So in a specialist economy, you don`t calculate your fat cross to get 20 food, because you want more population? When do you start employing specialists, and how many do you want to have in a city. When I employ specialists early the cities don`t grow very fast, aint that a problem? Do you still have "normal" cities with cottages for the economy? If yes, how many specialist cities compared to finance/production cities? What traits are the best for a specialist economy game without too much warmongering?

Cottage Economy:
In a cottage economy you try to get 20 food in every city with farms and then cottage spam the rest. This sounds pretty easy and is, how I play the game usually. What am I missing out?

General Question:
I am trying to specialize my cities in finance/science, production and great person cities. This hardly ever really works, and most of the time I get cities that do all a little, because I can`t get ideal placements for my cities. Do you still specialize them if you cant get 20 food in the fat cross because of it?

To get a trade route, you just connect 2 cities via a road. This has to be a direct connection. How about sea trade routes, do I have to do anything here?

I always tend to miss out on when my cities go into unhappyness. Is there an indication when they are over the limit, or do I have to check every city every turn?

Is it smart to build garbage cities just to get a ressouce?

I cant really get the hang of the new features spies and corporations: I thought spies are a cool feature since I don´t like open wars and can hurt the opponents none the less, but the spy missions don`t seem to do too much. For what is it smart to use more spy points? And corporations: In my last game I`ve build a corporation and spread it around -> my economy went crazy. I changed the civics and it was alright again... what is the point of corporations, and do they also have a diplomatic consequence like religion?

Well this were a lot of questions, and I probably forgot some. I would be very grateful if someone could enlighten me some!

Mike

 

[TM Moot]

Hi LikeMIke, welcome to the forum.

I'll leave the SE/CE answers to ppl more qualified to reply (I think you have the gist of it, I generally do a bit of both tbh).

Cities on the coast will generate trade, but best to connect your coastal cities to other cities by sailing between them. Harbours etc. will improve the amount of trade you generate. A river will connect cities for resources/trade, if not present, then a road will do.

Resource grabbing cities are sometimes necessary, just don't have too many or your economy will suffer.

Unhappiness can be avoided by whipping the population, or building specific improvements.

 

[frob2900]

Welcome to the Forum!

Your SE and CE definitions are pretty much spot on. The terms were invented a while back (before I started on the forums at least) to define an empire where

A) Specialist Economy. All research is done by specialists and from lightbulbs. Since one is running a lot of specialists, one gets a lot of great people from the +3/turn that each specialist produces. Hence generally more lightbulbs. Lightbulbed tech can, especially in the early game, give you a big tech advantage (e.g. lightbulbing education etc.) and the techs can be traded with the AI.

B) Cottage Economy. You run as many cottages you can. Like you stated you try to balance cottage growing with growing your city, so you can have as many cottage tiles worked as possible. This is possibly a slower tech strategy in the early game, but really picks up speed around Printing Press/Free Speech. It is still recommended to run specialists in one city (e.g. the one with National Epic), so that you also pick up some Great People.

Working hammer tiles (e.g. mines, quarries etc.) fall outside the above definitions, and someone actually proposed calling an empire that works mostly such tiles a Hammer Economy (HE)

In any real game I have a hard time imagining either strategy being 100% optimal (that is, running only specialists for research, or only running cottage tiles etc.), and you can mix and match as the situation goes along. Importantly, though, your choice of Civics should be tailored for that part of your economy which is largest. E.g. if you are working a lot of cottage tiles, it may be smarted to run Emancipation than Caste System etc.

It's also terrain dependant to some degree. Maps with lots and lots of grassland are obvious good CE territory etc.

Here's an article about SE (from the Strategy Articles section), it might be useful: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=197818. I'm sure there are articles on CE too.

 

[LikeMike]

Thanks for the answers! I am still not really sure, when to start the specialist economy... I just played a game trying to use it and my finances went down really quick in the beginning, so I switched to a hybrid game. I rarely had more than 3 specialists in a city until very late (when I also only had more than 3 in 2 cities, the food wasn`t enough in the other cities). So I didn`t quite nail it yet.

And do you have enough specialists so that you can turn your science slider completely down? How many cities do you have with specialists?

 

[frob2900]

And do you have enough specialists so that you can turn your science slider completely down? How many cities do you have with specialists?

I don't think anyone actually manages to run at 0% science slider (btw, just wait, in a while there will a bunch of posts criticizing this comment ). Thing is, before you have Representation (or if you get the Pyramids.. that can be a very important part of a game if you pull it off), the beakers per specialist are relatively low..

Therefore, part of your research should advisably still be coming from commerce tiles, and cottages are really the best way to pull it off.

Neverthless, as a rough estimate.. If you can get ca 5-7 cities in the classical age, and run 1-2 scientists in most (library), and perhaps 2+2 merchants in one (food heavy, should have National Epic) you should be doing extremely well. Of course, with caste system you can have a few more.. but never switch to Caste System if theres a risk you might need to start whipping (for war). Unless you are spiritual, of course

You'll also be able to bulb a lot with your Great Scientists.. After you hit Bureaucracy/Machinery theres a bunch of really good techs bulbable (Paper/Education/Printing Press).. Once you've got gunpowder/engineering you can also bulb chemistry.. (do some rummaging around in the Strategy Articles section and you'll find a Lightbulb Tech Preference list for Great People.. good to know when bulbing).

Personally.. unless I have pyramids I will tend to run cottages in the ancient age and specialists only in one city (often the first conquered AI capital, which I turn into my GP farm).

Anyhow, it's rather late here, and I think I'm rambling a bit.. so if I was unclear on anything, please ask and I'll try to be more to the point

 

[MrCynical]

You've got the basics of the specialist economy. You can have some cottage cities (cottaging the capital and running bureaucracy is sound in particular), and get a hybrid economy, but not too many as cottages are operating in sub optimal conditions. Generally just your capital, anywhere chunks of grassland you can't irrigate, and any cities you capture with mature cottages is abotu all you want. For a specialist economy Philosophical is an outstanding trait. Financial is weaker than normal, but is still well worth having. None of the others are all that different between the two economies.

The cottage economy is basically what you say (nitpick; 40 food not 20 to work the whole city radius). Only addendum is that you want a great person farm (one city all farmed; high food, specialists, national epic). Works best with a financial leader. In general the specialist economy is slightly better than the cottage very early, begins to fall behind in the middle ages, spikes ahead again with biology and representation, and then falls behind (badly) in the late game as cottages fully mature.

The hammer economy is largely a novelty rather than of any practical use. It is vastly inferior to either of these, and is usually unworkable.

As to your general questions, it's generally best to specialise cities for best results. You always want a great person farm for instance to make best use of the national epic. This is basically going to be your highest food site (if you farm everything). Production, go for hills with just enough farmable flatland to use them all. You probably want one specialised for military and another for wonders.

Thanks for the answers! I am still not really sure, when to start the specialist economy... I just played a game trying to use it and my finances went down really quick in the beginning, so I switched to a hybrid game. I rarely had more than 3 specialists in a city until very late (when I also only had more than 3 in 2 cities, the food wasn`t enough in the other cities). So I didn`t quite nail it yet.

And do you have enough specialists so that you can turn your science slider completely down? How many cities do you have with specialists?

For it to be worth running you need a lot more specialists than that per city. You can get two free per city just from mercantilism and the statue of liberty. Sounds like you may have got a low food start, in which case the specialist economy simply doesn't work as well. In a specialist economy, ideally you want specialists everywhere except your capital, and probably your high production cities, but as I've said this isn't always that practical. Consider the terrain at each city. Can you get a lot more than 40 food? Is it easy to get 40, but no that much more? Specialists or cottages as the terrain suits, and figure out which economy you're leaning towards.

As to running at 0% science, its in theory possible, and sometimes theorised as an advantage of the specialist economy, but rarely seems to work in practice. Even with lightbulbing to take up the slack, you'll fall behind on science most of the time if you try this.