Some thoughts on starting techs

vormuir

Prince
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Has anyone done an article on the various starting techs?

If not, here's a brief sketch. Thoughts and comments are welcome.

Agriculture

Base Cost: 60
Leads to: Pottery, Animal Husbandry
Who's got it: America, China, France, Inca, Ottoman, Persia, Zulu

Agriculture is a "worker tech" -- it lets your worker build farms. Most capitals start with farmable land nearby, either food resources or river tiles. So this tech is immediately useful.

If you start with Agriculture, you may want to consider building a Worker early -- either your first or second build. This will stunt your city's growth for a while, as food goes to the Worker instead of expansion, but you'll probably end up with faster growth overall as the Worker starts farming tiles.

If you're playing Persia, notice that Agriculture leads to Animal Husbandry, which shows Horses, which you need for your UU. If you're Inca or American, notice that it leads to Pottery, which lets you start cottaging -- nice if you are Financial.


Fishing

Base Cost: 40
Leads to: Sailing, Pottery
Who's got it: America, Carthage, England, Greece, Japan, Rome, Spain, Viking

Fishing is probably the least popular starting tech. It's cheap, so getting it early only saves a few turns. Many starting positions are not on coasts. And water tiles are not that important early in the game.

Still, Fishing is nice to have if you (1) are near a coastal food resource, or (2) are on a lake. If you do have access to a coastal resource, consider making a Work Boat one of your earliest builds -- first or second. A Work Boat gives you a nice early boost in food and growth, and unlike a Worker, your city still grows while building it.

Also, if you are playing Elizabeth or one of the Americans, coastal tiles are more interesting -- your Financial trait will give you an extra point of commerce from each one. And Fishing leads to Pottery, which you'll want to acquire early for cottages.

Fishing also leads to Sailing, which is very important if you're on an Archipelago map or have an isolated start. If you're playing Ragnar, of course, you'll probably want Sailing early for your UB.

Tip: you can explore using Work Boats instead of Galleys. They die if attacked, but barbarian galleys don't usually appear in the early turns.


Hunting:

Base Cost: 40
Leads to: Archery, Animal Husbandry
Who's got it: Aztecs, Celts, Germany, Greece, Mongolia, Persia, Russia, Viking, Zulu

Hunting is not a great tech, but it gives you one important advantage: you start the game with a Scout instead of a Warrior. Not only does the Scout move faster, he gets better results from the tribal huts. On average, a civilization with a Scout is going to be 50-100 gold ahead of one without by the time the huts are all popped. So, if you are one of these civs, get that Scout moving!

Hunting is also a worker tech, in that it lets you build Camps. However, this is not useful unless you start with Elephants or Furs nearby. And even if you do start with Elephants in your fat cross, it may still not be worth building an early Worker. An Elephant camp gives you +1 hammer, +2 commerce, and +1 happiness in your cities. That's all very nice, but in the early turns it's less important than food, food, food. So you're probably better off building the Worker at your normal time -- second, third, or even fourth build, depending.

Hunting leads to Archery, which most players consider a low-value tech. It also leads to Animal Husbandry; if you're playing Persia, Russia, or Mongolia, you may want to get this tech early, so you can locate those Horses for your UU.


Mining
Base Cost: 50
Leads to: Masonry, Bronze Working
Who's got it: Carthage, China, England, Germany, India, Korea, Mali, Rome, Russia

One of the most popular starting techs. Not only is it a worker tech, allowing you to build Mines right away, but it's the only starting tech that leads to Bronze Working. And Bronze Working is, hands down, the single most important technology of the early game. It shows copper, enables Slavery, lets you build Axemen, and lets you chop Forests too! No wonder many players beeline for it. And if you start with Mining, that beeline will be pleasantly short.

Consider carefully how this may interact with your leader traits. For instance, if you are an Industrious leader (Qin, Bismarck, Gandhi), then early access to Bronze Working will give you a good chance at several early Wonders. That's because hammers from forest-chops and slave-whipping get your Industrious bonus. Similarly, if you are Expansive, chops and whips will build your cheap Granaries quickly.

Look hard at the map. If there's gold in your fat cross, build a Worker early and mine it -- gold gives no food, but gives so many hammers and commerce that it's worth it anyway. If there's Stone nearby, research Masonry early, build a worker and go dig; in addition to extra hammers, it gives you double construction speed on several Wonders.

Some other things to consider. If you are playing Rome, then Mining-Bronze Working - Iron Working is very tempting... early Praetorians make sure you have lots of elbow roon. If you are India, your Fast Worker can climb a hill and start mining on the same turn. And if you want to found a religion, and you missed Buddhism and Hinduism, Mining gives you a head start on Judaism (via Masonry, which leads to Monotheism).


Mysticism
Base Cost: 50
Leads to: Meditation, Polytheism, Masonry
Who's got it: Arabs, Aztecs, Celts, Korea, Inca, India, Spain

Mysticism encourages you to found an early religion. Whether this is a good idea is beyond the scope of this article, but most players seem to say "usually, yes". The +1 happiness, plus shrine income later in the game, is worth the possible negatives (like negative diplomatic modifiers with whoever founded the other early religion). And most of the leaders with early Mysticism are also Spiritual, so you don't lose a turn when you convert.

It's interesting to note that Mysticism is the least common of the starting techs: only seven civilizations and eight leaders have it.

If you're Industrious (Gandhi, Incas in Warlords), note that Mysticism unlocks one early Wonder (Stonehenge) and leads quickly to techs that unlock two more (the Oracle and Parthenon). Even if you're not Industrious, Stonehenge and the Oracle are two of the most popular early Wonders; this starting tech gives you a head start on them.

The Wheel
Base Cost: 60
Leads to: Pottery
Who's got it: Arabs, Egypt, France, Japan, Mali, Mongolia, Ottoman

The Wheel is a worker tech, sort of -- it lets you build roads. That's nice, but it doesn't give you anyplace to build roads *to*. So it's not much use by itself.

However, in combination with other worker techs, it's great. France and the Ottomans start with the Wheel and Agriculture, which makes a nice one-two punch: farm resources and connect them. If you're playing one of these civs, seriously consider an early Worker. Similarly, if you are Mali near a gold mine, or Mongolia near Elephants, get that Worker out there.

More likely, though, the Wheel won't be of much use to you in the very early game. Its main advantage is rather passive: having it means you don't have to research it in order to snag that juicy resource. Few things are more annoying than seeing Copper or Horses, moving to grab it, then realizing you have to wait six or eight turns while you research the Wheel.

The Wheel does lead to Pottery, which is especially important for Financial civs. However, Mali is the only Financial civ that starts with the Wheel. Genghis Khan and the Ottomans are Expansive, which gives cheap Granaries, so they might want to consider grabbing Pottery early for faster growth. Note, though, that Granaries are useless when you're building Workers and Settlers. So even Expansive players often don't build these very early in the game.

The Wheel is the second least common starting tech, and one of the two most expensive (with Agriculture).
 
I've been experimenting with different early teching strategies lately as I have been wanting to try for a cultural victory, and figure early religion is very helpful for that. So starting with leaders that have mysticism, I'll grab polytheism first for hinduism. Playing on Monarch.

Problem I've been having is that on epic, the usual 15-18 turns to grab polytheism seems to cause an early production and development problem. It could be over 30 turns before I can farm that grain, and over 40 turns til I can work those cows, and 60-70 turns before I can chop/whip. And then I am just starting to work on writing to head for alphabet.

Here's my solution ... want relatively early religion, but also hate sacrificing early development? skip the first 3 religions. Do the normal worker techs, BW, writing, alphabet, then immediately CoL for Confucianism, and if you like, get philosophy a little early for Taoism. There is also a possibility for a third religion by trading for Monotheism at first opportunity then grabbing Theology.

Another early tech gambit I've been thinking about but haven't tried is with a start with a few flood plains (especially with financial), teching wheel - pottery - BW - writing - alphabet skipping the other worker techs to cottage up the flood plains and grow to size 3 or 4 before building a settler. BW can even be skipped if lucky enough to have gold in starting fat cross. With enough commerce, I think alphabet can be reached before the barb archers are showing up, and you can at the worst case trade for archery the second turn after getting alphabet and build a few stop-gap archers.
 
I like hunting. If i start with it i almost always build few scouts relatively quickly (many times second scout is my first build) to explore the world and huts. Better results from huts w/scout(s) can often mean extra 1-3 techs quite soon (that might be mentioned on your analysis too?) and more gold compared to warrior exploring (or more maps of the icy northern sea .. ;)).

Of course, hunting is not nearly as useful for those who like to play goody huts turned off.
 
You'll have to add Egypt to the list of civs with Agriculture as a starting tech.

This is significant for Egypt as Ag makes getting to animal husbandry quicker. Finding early horses, and already starting with "Wheel" can make for some very quick War Chariots.

Also, the combination of Ag + Wheel is the highest base cost of techs (60 each). Slight advantage, but compared to the poor hunting and fishing guys (Greece + Vikings), it's 120 vs. 80 - like starting with a small free tech.
 
Early mysticism allows obelisks that will expand your cultural borders. They are quickly built and are really useful in your 2nd, 3rd, 4th city. This can help you get that needed resource without parking the city right next to it. It also helps you out on the power graph becauese you get more land. If you are like me you dont like to be at the bottom of the score all the time.
 
Budweiser, good point! I don't use obelisks much because I prefer to build Stonehenge. But that's just me, and I know a lot of players who swear by obelisks.

Stonehenge vs. Obelisks is probably worth a thread of its own. Stonehenge costs 120 hammers, Obelisks are 30 each, so you could argue that Stonehenge = 4 Obelisks, so why build it if you don't have at least 5 cities? (Since your capital will produce culture anyway.)

But the 'henge gives GP points -- crucial early in the game, especially if you've founded a religion and want to get that shrine income going. And (like all Wonders) building it denies it to the AI.

Other hand, for the cost of Stonehenge you could build three or four Axemen or a couple of Settlers...

It's a head-scratcher.

Kev, thanks for the catch -- I missed Egypt somehow. You're also right about the value of the techs. (And War Chariots are great. If playing Egypt, it's tempting to start a war with them before even building your second city.)

cheers,


Waldo
 
Stonehenge vs. Obelisks is probably worth a thread of its own. Stonehenge costs 120 hammers, Obelisks are 30 each, so you could argue that Stonehenge = 4 Obelisks, so why build it if you don't have at least 5 cities? (Since your capital will produce culture anyway.)
But the free obelisks will appear in new cities settled after you build Stonehenge. So the real question is, are you going to have at least 5 cities before you get Calendar (which obsoletes both Stonehenge and manually built oblelisks). The answer to this should be yes in all but the most extreme cases.
 
True -- but a hammer today is worth more than a hammer 50 turns from now. If the choice is between spending 120 hammers now, or 120 hammers spread out over the next 100 turns, it's obviously better to spend them gradually.

Also, some of your cities won't /need/ obelisks. In most cities, the only reason to build an Obelisk is to produce that first border pop. Once you get a state religion, every city will pop on its own. And even if you don't have a state religion, cities can still produce culture in many different ways. To give just one example, if you run Caste System, you can produce quick pops by selecting an Artist for a few turns.

So the question is a little trickier than "will you have five cities by Calendar".

(BTW, I love Stonehenge, and build it more often than not.)


Waldo
 
Its even trickier, because
Like creative, stonehenge give you border pops without having to worry about it,
The pop might give access to better tiles fast, and thus get your cities productive quicker -> hard to quantify but nice return on investment though.

On top of that, you can place your cities differently.
You can place ur 2nd city 2 tiles from a strategic ressource.
Without Stonehenge or creative... well .... harder too pull off. :lol:
 
True -- but a hammer today is worth more than a hammer 50 turns from now. If the choice is between spending 120 hammers now, or 120 hammers spread out over the next 100 turns, it's obviously better to spend them gradually.
Yes and no. I find that building stone henge in a city that has "lots" of hammers helps pop borders in cities that are more commerce or food oriented (such as GP farms or financial centers). So investing in an expensive wonder (and it really isn't that expensive as wonders go) allows me to focus on building only necessary things in cities that lack hammers. Of course, you can usually slave those cities, but then you are losing the very population that you want to build up for working cottages or farms/specialists. Like anything, there is a tradeoff and I usually build Stonenhenge if I don't have a guaranteed source of culture early on.

Also, some of your cities won't /need/ obelisks. In most cities, the only reason to build an Obelisk is to produce that first border pop. Once you get a state religion, every city will pop on its own. And even if you don't have a state religion, cities can still produce culture in many different ways. To give just one example, if you run Caste System, you can produce quick pops by selecting an Artist for a few turns.
This is what I mean by "guaranteed source". All of those would be good reasons not to build stonenhenge. If I don't start with Mysticism, it is a good bet that I won't be founding any early religions (at least not without sacrificing something that I consider more important such as military or economy). Actually you don't need a state religion for the religion to pop culture and having more than one religion in a city will produce culture faster without a state religion selected.

The point you make about Artist specialists is a good one and I probably neglect that tactic more than I should. On the other hand, I usually want my cities to have popped by the time I get Caste System so that I can run scientists right away at peak efficiency. Similarly with the culture slider available with Drama. Obviosly if you have a Creative trait there is no good reason to build Stonehenge so I didn't consider that in my response.
 
great analysis vormuir.
one more thing : at (very) low levels, you have the wheel for free, so those civs starting with it at any level have one less tech. Not a big deal, but still true.
 
Well, no matter what civ I have, i always go for mining ->> bronzworking first. I emphasis FOOD turn 1 and try to switch to slavery ASAP. I think this is the best Bang for the Buck (for various reasons). If anyone can point to me an exception here, I'd like to know, as I don't think I've found a better one yet.
 
Well, no matter what civ I have, i always go for mining ->> bronzworking first. I emphasis FOOD turn 1 and try to switch to slavery ASAP. I think this is the best Bang for the Buck (for various reasons). If anyone can point to me an exception here, I'd like to know, as I don't think I've found a better one yet.

As with all things in Civ IV I would say this depends.

I know that most capitals have decent food potential, but unless you start with some floodplains or start with Agriculture you may have difficulty making full use of slavery (from the whipping standpoint). I like to make a worker as my first build, so perhaps if you are more interested in building some military/scouts first you can nab Ag right after BW - but I do feel it might serve a slavery civic better to have Ag before BW and already have some improvements made.

Further, I'll make the case that Persia and Egypt make great use of starting out with Animal Husbandry - which in both cases is available at the start due to having Agriculture. Their UU's can both be built very quickly and put to good use right away. I also find I have better luck at finding horses nearby on fractal maps compared to copper these days, and if nothing else it sure helps with barbs.

Still, while there are some exceptions, I do agree that getting BW is key for various reasons and should be obtained as quickly as is prudent to do so.
 
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