Something smells rotten in the state of Denmark: No Denmark fix?

[ToothedBomb]

Just imagine a nice coastal civ with a bunch of improvements. Land your units, pillage as much as you can for bonuses then run back to the sea before they can counter with their military. Has a nice Viking feel, doesn't it?

I think so, yeah. I can see the vikings declaring war on everyone, just to plunder their tiles and then retreat, enjoying their ill-gotten goods at home.

 

[Fredgerd]

They should get a bonus involving more food because what they are most historically known for is due to their lack of food?

I never said they should get a bonus to food. OP did.

 

[DarthSheldonPhD]

But doesn't the UA pretty much cover longships? It has the graphic, but it also covers most of what a longship does - i.e very quickly deliver coastal raiders to their destination. Their historical relevance was primarily as very good transport ships for dudes with axes rather than straight up ship-to-ship combat ships in the way that triremes and galleases are. You could pretty much change the UA name from "Viking Fury" to "Longships" and you'd be covered, I reckon. You could argue that the extra embarked movement also sort of covers the longboat's capacity for exploration and navigational feats (ie getting to Vinland), as you can explore a bit more with regular units rather than needing to build triremes and caravels. Any more and you'd be crowding out the Polynesian UA, I think. The only thing it doesn't cover is the trade aspect.

You make a good point, but the same could be said (and much more appropriately so) to the Bushido UA essentially making Japenese longswords into samurai. But the game still includes the samurai as a UU. Why? because that's one of the aspects of Japanese history that players want to be able to control/role-play. Much like the longboats.

 

[Securion]

Show me an example of Vikings choosing to fight for the sheer joy of it. All armed groups seeking to leverage mobility against a more powerful opponent basically only fight when a) cornered b) paid to do so or c) an act of terror is considered necessary to extract tribute through intimidation. This part of the UA works fine.

Actually, the word "viking" comes from the phrase "att gå viking", in other words "go out on an adventure", "go and fight" or "go plunder", and very often just for the sheer joy of it (and the loot of course!). But the Vikings loved combat, they yearned for it, and the only way to go to Valhalla (warriors heaven) was to actually die in combat.

Also, the Varjags in Constantinopel was vikings from Sweden who came down from Kievan Rus (which they ruled) in search for combat, fame and glory. They were so capable on the battlefield, so loyal, and trustworthy, that they were the only troops trusted by the Byzantine Emperor to act as his bodyguard.

Combat was something they very much wanted.

 

[Depravo]

I'm not claiming they didn't display great elan, but their primary motive were usually economic.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

I think that the Ski Infantry should be replaced by the Longboat, but I was thinking more of a longboat replacing the trireme. It would have the ability to move in ocean tiles but it would have less combat strength.

 

[HaloCapella]

that is true, ski infantry should be replaced. We can put them into a social policy and make all civs can use them as an option to fight in the snow. like how we did to Foreign Legions and Landsknecht.

and yes, longboat will be great to rival early naval civs like Polynesia and Byzantines.

Longship: 12 strength (instead of 10) and bonus defense for embarked units adjacent to Longship.

it may not be great compared to River Warlord, but embarked unit movement from UA is key. can also defend from exploration and threat against your cargo ships.

and maybe add or replace over certain perk on Viking Fury with "units boost strength over pillaged tiles." can make land combat more interesting.

 

[King_Course]

I feel like anything involving more food doesn't do the Danes historical justice. Much of the pillaging they became so infamous for was due to a shortage of food in their own home land. I like the idea of trade route bonuses of some sort, in reference to Varangian control of the Baltic River systems, but I'll note that the way you've designed it is as a UA but you've replaced a UU. Civs generally get only one UA.

How about this?
Unique Unit: Longship
Replaces Cargo Ship
Longships may establish trade routes with other civs while at war with them. These trade routes cause the enemy player to lose the amount of gold that would normally be gained from the trade route. No science is gained for either side. Trade route may still be plundered so it must be defended.

This would fit in with the Danish flavor of looting and pillaging and would allow them the unique advantage of being able to maintain income while in a constant state of war.

This would make Denmark an unwelcome pariah in all games, all game long.

I enjoyed playing Denmark when I installed the longboat mod, which was basically an ocean going trireme with +1 movement.

I also used the smokehouse mod, a slightly improved granary, but this was mainly because the mod took out the ski infantry which I really can't take seriously.

These small changes even seemed to help Denmark when it was played by the AI.

But an early scouting longboat, together with an AI that has a tendency for naval invasions around it's beserkers. Maybe show up with a blunt demand of gold and luxuries or it's a wardec.

 

[Thunda]

I think the focus should be on what made the Danish (and the rest of Scandinavians) special.
In the pre-christian culture in Scandinavia there was honor in killing an enemy but also a great deal of honor if one died in battle, since that ensured a special place in Valhalla. They where also very good explorers who settled land long away from Scandinavia sailing over oceans and up rivers.

UA #1 Asatro
Once enough faith has been gained to start a pantheon there is a choice to pick Asatro. Gain culture for every enemy killed. Also gain culture for every unit lost in battle. Once the renaissance is reached no culture for units lost in battle and only half the culture for enemies killed.

UA #2, Longboat.
Embarked Danish units can melee attack. +1 movement when moving along side a river. Ability to melee attack only active until the industrial era starts.

UA#3: Viking navigator
Can move over Oceans once Compass is researched. +1 Sight when embarked.

UU: Berserker, fine as it is.


Ski infantry, bye bye.
No pillaging cost, bye, bye. The vikings might pillage a lot but they dont jump in, pillage then jump out. They are there to fight.

Ski infantry is a terrible terrible unit. Other posters have said and I agree it makes no sense when Vikings and Longboats are what people associate with this civ. I agree that berserkers should be called Vikings and the Ski infantry replaced with a Longboat that comes at compass which can traverse oceans.

Another idea...how about allow danish units to sail up rivers with +1 movement while on rivers?

 

[Depravo]

Mastery of great continental rivers is associated more with the Varangians than the Vikings - and we already have the Swedes.

 

[Securion]

UA; Viking Heritage. +2 from Hills next to Ocean and each Offshore platform give +10% to city. Barbarian units does not dare attack, pillage or capture Danish cities, tiles and units.

UU; Viking; Replace Longsword. Amphibious. +2 Movement when embarked, and pay just 1 movement point to move from sea to land. Pay no movement cost when pillaging. Can build Trelleborg tile improvement.

UB; Trelleborg; Replace Fortification tile improvement. Friendly units get +30hp healed per turn when fortify/heal inside one. Can be built inside enemy territory. Can be built by Workers and Vikings.

 

[leadtothehead]

Mastery of great continental rivers is associated more with the Varangians than the Vikings - and we already have the Swedes.

Varangian is just the name given by the Slavs and Byzantines for the Vikings traveling the east european river system, later they mixed and eventually assimilated into the Slavic populations (like they did most places they went) but they were Norse through and through.

Now as to where we divide the Vikings and Swedes at least in Civ 5 its largely by time period, generally Sweden begins with the reformation as far as capturing the in-game characteristics of the civilization.

 

[leadtothehead]

UA; Viking Heritage. +2 from Hills next to Ocean and each Offshore platform give +10% to city. Barbarian units does not dare attack, pillage or capture Danish cities, tiles and units.

UU; Viking; Replace Longsword. Amphibious. +2 Movement when embarked, and pay just 1 movement point to move from sea to land. Pay no movement cost when pillaging. Can build Trelleborg tile improvement.

UB; Trelleborg; Replace Fortification tile improvement. Friendly units get +30hp healed per turn when fortify/heal inside one. Can be built inside enemy territory. Can be built by Workers and Vikings.

Love the idea of giving a bonus to offshore platforms that's a very clear characteristic of modern Norway.

As for the Trelleborg, I like the idea, heck I wrestled with suggesting a ring fort UI but decided against it because Morocco already has a fort replacement, however your idea sparked my imagination... How about on top of your abilities when built in enemy territory on a luxury or strategic resource you receive that resource.

 

[Securion]

Love the idea of giving a bonus to offshore platforms that's a very clear characteristic of modern Norway.

Yea, and the +2 was me thinking about norwegian fjords.

As for the Trelleborg, I like the idea, heck I wrestled with suggesting a ring fort UI but decided against it because Morocco already has a fort replacement, however your idea sparked my imagination... How about on top of your abilities when built in enemy territory on a luxury or strategic resource you receive that resource.

Might actually work. But would be very temporary boost.

I wish more people could give suggestions to Firaxis for changes. Give them ideas to work with!

If they even read this.....

 

[crabe]

I agree with mlund - the tech tree is the issue. Swordsmen are too close to pikes and longswords are too close to muskets (also GW infantry are too close to infantry).
The way to improve Denmark is through tweaking the tech tree IMO.

I agree with this as well. It's the same issue with Samurai. By the time you get them you're almost at gunpowder. As for Denmark's UA it's situationally very powerful, and usually at least somewhat useful. The problem is that Berzerkers and Ski Infantry are nowhere near as useful as what other militaristic civs get.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I agree with mlund - the tech tree is the issue. Swordsmen are too close to pikes and longswords are too close to muskets (also GW infantry are too close to infantry).
The way to improve Denmark is through tweaking the tech tree IMO.

Berserker is a tech back at Metal Casting, which helps a lot.

I just played as Denmark (or, more accurately, I'm playing with them now). I took Mercenary Armies for Landschneckts as well because it has nice synergy. The mobility of the Danes was extremely good. However, I missed the pillaging ability of the Berserker later on. One way to improve them would be to just give all their units that ability (free pillage) and let the Berserker keep the movement on upgrade. Although I would have been deprived of feeling clever for getting Landschneckts.

How about +1 move after each pillage (so, for normal units, it would even out, for free pillage units, you get even more moves)?

Of course, the complaint most have is the lack of economic bonus for them. I feel like they'd lose a lot of uniqueness if you get rid of either UU or the UA, but maybe something would be nice.