Spaceflight Pioneers

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

This is a complaining post on how completely underwhelming this tenet is.

Here are the facts:

My capitol (with Hubble Space Telescope) takes 28 turns for a spaceship part (marathon speed).
Spending a GE to rush it reduces that time by *drumrolls* ... 4 turns.
That is 1/7th or roughly 15%.

As if that is not embarrassing enough by itself, let me put it further into perspective. Buying the part, which I can do because I have a spaceship factory in the city (I love this feature btw) cost my roughly 10000 gold. A GM which does a trade mission nets roughly 3600 gold. Said differently, a GM (together with a spaceship factory which is a must anyway in any city that produces these) is more than twice as effective at rushing than a GE with a third level tenet effect.

Yes I am aware that you also get two free persons out of Spaceflight Pioneers too, but the GE is mostly worthless at this stage, and the GS, while good, still will give you less than, say, 2 straight technologies you could get from a level 2 tenet.

To sum it up, I think the GE rushing of spaceship part needs to be much more efficient, especially given that it has to compete with gold rushing as well. Considering that the decisive factor of the space victory should be science output, and the huge hammer costs only add a retarding element, I would even argue that one GE should be able to rush one, but I can see arguments against that. However, it should do at least half of it. A third level tenet should help you win the game in a significant way.

 

[CrazyG]

On standard speed its pretty weak, but not like this; I wonder if this is a game speed thing. Are engineers normally this weak on marathon (like early game or when building wonders), or do you only have this feeling for the spaceship parts specifically?

 

[Stalker0]

To sum it up, I think the GE rushing of spaceship part needs to be much more efficient, especially given that it has to compete with gold rushing as well.

The thing is, they don't compete, they are complementary. You can gold rush one part, and use the GE on another.

The tricky thing is this: well yes its only 4 turns....its 4 turns closer to winning the game. That can't be underestimated, as in the end nothing else actually matters.

To know if there truly is a balance problem, you would have to show that a different tenant actually helps you win the game quicker than this tenant.

 

[CrazyG]

A great engineer only being worth four turns on marathon is pathetic and I suspect its a gamespeed issue. I haven't taken this tenet in a while, but I think it was worth like 4 turns of production on standard speed (which is actually pretty valuable). Remember GE's scale with population. But overall, I really find this so much weaker than freedom's tenet

 

[tu_79]

I took it twice recently, and I agree that it is underwhelming. Not what you expect. Also, going order usually gives me fewer great people and I rarely have completed Tradition, so I have like 4 great engineers (one or two saved for the occasion) and even then what they can rush does not make up for what I could have done in Freedom.

 

[Txurce]

I took it twice recently, and I agree that it is underwhelming. Not what you expect. Also, going order usually gives me fewer great people and I rarely have completed Tradition, so I have like 4 great engineers (one or two saved for the occasion) and even then what they can rush does not make up for what I could have done in Freedom.

Playing Progress right now with 10 cities, I have 5 GEs saved up, and I'm over 30 turns from even selecting that tenet. I agree it's weak compared to Freedom's comparable one (which is why I usually go Freedom), but Order has a lot going for it overall in terms of a SV.