Spain

Hmm. You must have downloaded an earlier version. The one uploaded here gives the updated yields.
I have downloaded the version you have attached to your post at page 26, 6th post.

As said, I play this Spain peacefully with now 9 cities. I really like the new Spain, cause its less warmonger dependant than the previous version. That civ will have of course more power, if played as warmonger, cause the early money can be spend easily into military units.
I didnt conqered anything, so never received any inquistor, but I think a change to converting a city to your own religion at conquest/settling is a much smoother step than an inquisitor.
A change from culture to border growth orientation of the Hacienda looks good too.

My main concern is the Hacienda.
A change from 6:c5gold: to 10:c5gold: per claimed tile make sense. In the ancient era, the gold is impactful enough, but diminishes greatly in later eras. But with the option to build Haciendas, all the gold from the UA can be ignored.
Architecture and Fertilizer are not that far away from Compass, creating a 10 yield UI, which is around the amount of yields other UI have, but has absolutly no terrain restriction and additionally the option to get even more yields.
Triggering atleast 2 times is the normality in my game. The ability to create 10+ yield monsters from a normal improvement without any terrain restriction in late medieval is too much. Thats more powerful than even GPTI.
Alone my capital is working:
1 with 13 yields 2 with 12 yields 1 with 11 yields 2 with 10 yields 2 with 8 yields
And I didnt have researched Fertilizer nor Architecture. Both together would give 6 more yields, add the yields from an ideology, you get on every UI, and I end with 156 yields by only working 8 tiles. Thats too powerful.

Also.... doubling the gold from gaining tiles by conquest would be too much. In my game, conquering a city of my neighbor would give me 1500:c5gold:, enough for 3 cannons or tercios.

I would suggest this:

UA - Reqonquista
Gaining tiles generates 5:c5faith:Faith and 10:c5gold:Gold, scaling with Era. Settling or Conquering a city converts it to your official religion. May purchase Naval Units with :c5faith:Faith.

UI - Hacienda (Worker Improvement):
available at Compass
Can be built anywhere, but not adjacent to other Hacienda

+1 :c5food: Food and +1:c5gold: Gold
Gains yields for each adjacent city and resource:
+1:c5culture: Culture, :c5science: Science, :ack: Border Growth if adjacent to a City
+1:c5food: Food, :c5production: Production, :ack: Border Growth for every adjacent ressource
+1:c5food: Food and +1:c5production: Production at Architecture
+1:c5food:
Food and +1:c5gold: Gold at Fertilizer
+1:c5culture: Culture at Radio
 
Thanks for giving it a shot! I'm glad you (mostly) liked it.
Also.... doubling the gold from gaining tiles by conquest would be too much. In my game, conquering a city of my neighbor would give me 1500:c5gold:, enough for 3 cannons or tercios.
I actually agree with you, but other users really wanted to try it with the yields set higher. I expect they will come back saying the rewards are too high if doubled on conquest.

Wait and see for now.
I didnt conqered anything, so never received any inquistor, but I think a change to converting a city to your own religion at conquest/settling is a much smoother step than an inquisitor.
The inquisitor appears in the newly conquered city, so it is very easy to expend it in the same turn. The only downside to this in comparison to your suggestion is you have to convert your founded cities and you don't get to avoid the 1:c5occupied:resistance turn from expending an inquisitor
Architecture and Fertilizer are not that far away from Compass, creating a 10 yield UI, which is around the amount of yields other UI have, but has absolutly no terrain restriction and additionally the option to get even more yields.
Triggering atleast 2 times is the normality in my game. The ability to create 10+ yield monsters from a normal improvement without any terrain restriction in late medieval is too much. Thats more powerful than even GPTI.
Alone my capital is working:
1 with 13 yields 2 with 12 yields 1 with 11 yields 2 with 10 yields 2 with 8 yields
And I didnt have researched Fertilizer nor Architecture. Both together would give 6 more yields, add the yields from an ideology, you get on every UI, and I end with 156 yields by only working 8 tiles. Thats too powerful.
UI - Hacienda (Worker Improvement):
available at Compass
Can be built anywhere, but not adjacent to other Hacienda

+1 :c5food: Food and +1:c5gold: Gold
Gains yields for each adjacent city and resource:
+1:c5culture: Culture, :c5science: Science, :ack: Border Growth if adjacent to a City
+1:c5food: Food, :c5production: Production, :ack: Border Growth for every adjacent ressource
+1:c5food: Food and +1:c5production: Production at Architecture
+1:c5food:
Food and +1:c5gold: Gold at Fertilizer
+1:c5culture: Culture at Radio
That's :c5food::c5production::c5gold::c5science::c5culture: and :ack:. It's only missing :c5goldenage: and :c5faith: for a complete yield spread. It's also situationally even stronger than the current version; more of a side-grade than a nerf.
If a nerf is needed -- and I think I agree with you that it is -- I will just remove the 1:c5food::c5production: from the base yields, making it only 1:c5gold::ack: with no adjacent resources/cities, and keep the tech yields the same for now.
 
The only downside to this in comparison to your suggestion is you have to convert your founded cities [...]
The fact that newly founded cities immidiatly get my religion instead not even my pantheon is unique. I like that. And it gives me in my eyes more benefits than having only the option to go for Inquisition. I understand that you want to implement the flavor of the Inquisition, cause both are linked very strong with each other. But at the moment, Inquisition isnt a very liked belief.
An option you might think about is maybe a partially integration of the Inquisition belief in the spanish UA and replacing the faith purchase skill.
I dont know how much liked the faith purchase of naval units is, I used it only twice, but even then it wasnt really necessary. Even I use all my trade units for food, my gold income is double as high as my faith generation and at the moment (late industrial era), I sit on 15000:c5gold: I cant spend. Maybe something like:
Gain 3:c5faith: Faith, 3:c5culture: Culture, 3:c5food: Food for each new follower of your religion in your own cities, scaling with era. (Through natural growth, spreading and conquest)
That's :c5food::c5production::c5gold::c5science::c5culture: and :ack:. It's only missing :c5goldenage: and :c5faith: for a complete yield spread. It's also situationally even stronger than the current version; more of a side-grade than a nerf.
If a nerf is needed -- and I think I agree with you that it is -- I will just remove the 1:c5food::c5production: from the base yields, making it only 1:c5gold::ack: with no adjacent resources/cities, and keep the tech yields the same for now.
Making it situationally better was the plan.
At the moment, even the base yields from the UI is as good as other UI are. And spamming them between atleast 2 ressources is no problem. Shifting more yields to the ressource dependency and less to the base yields makes it more to a strong situational UI than something you can spam to every possible tile. Other UI which are not allowed to be placed near each other have additional restrictions like forest/jungle (Kuna), a Luxury ressource (Chateu), a luxury ressource and forest/jungle (Brazilwood camp) or Feitoria (Coast).
In my opinion, the Hacienda should be a good Improvement, if 2 ressources are bordering, be very strong if 3 ore more are adjactand, but not very well working if no or only 1 ressource is close.

If you didnt agree with that, I would atleast wish, that you reduce the amount of gold this UI generates. Its simply too much and extremly redundant to the gold you get by the border expansion. Sticking all ressources under one trigger with :c5food: and :c5production: would make it easier to understand and less plentiful with the gold.

I like the new Spain and the Idea behind it, but its in the current state too powerful. And playing them as warmonger probably even more. I hope I was able to contribute a bit to the finishing process of the new Spain and Gazebo will integrate it soon after most see it as balance.
 
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How are you all feeling now with the official patch out?
God of expanse or tutelary still?
Authority still feels like her go to start but it doesnt feel as powerful without tutelary but expanse definitely synergizes well with the new UA as a whole.
overall a well deserved nerf, but also an effective rebalance. loving it so far.
 
I actually reduced it to 10:c5gold:4:c5faith:, and made it the same for every tile acquisition type.

The Hacienda is substantially nerfed from what I had tested prior to the 12-1 version. It has 1:c5gold:gold and 1:(border growth as base yields, gaining 2:c5gold: and 2:c5food::c5production: at later techs
 
Time to test this Spain, Authority seems like the perfect opening for Spain, more bonuses from expansion, conquests, UU and the Hacienda is amazing.

After that, I am thinking about Progress just to test the power of a "peaceful" Spain.

Should be a very powerful religious civ with an amazing military power and a great mid game expansion. The Hacienda should make Spain a terrifying wide civ, just as Morocco is.
 
I have just started a game with Spain in the latest version. This was a random choice & never played them before. I wanted to play peaceful, building up my initial cities untl later, & chose progress which is good for most things. I was basically on a continent on my own, with Indonesia, who I have never had any real dealings with, who seemed amicable enough & wasn't a known aggresive civ, & had also picked Progress. Then just around the time of Christianity he attacked. It wasn't like I had no troops, but they were only archers, spearmen, Horsemen & he came in hard with Skirmishers, Catapults, Composite Bowmen, which I could handle, but I hadn't checked his UU, as he is also came in with these kick ass Swordsman, which were deadly. With this war dragging on only one way I feel & falling way behind in science & tech, I was going to try this game again, but this time taking authority & smashing him down early. I had a save from start, as I always do, if wanting to try things out.

The reason I am commenting in this thread was a question about religion or basically what happens if I don't get one, considering my main abilities are set up regarding religion. Normally my first task is to beeline to Stonehenge to get a Pantheon, but if I going authority, not building cities early on & taking him out early I don't want to find down the line I don't get one. The other thing I have noticed is five religions can be formed, which is strange in a 8 civ game. Does this mean one civ automatically gets one? Would be interested in peoples thoughts.
 
I have just started a game with Spain in the latest version. This was a random choice & never played them before. I wanted to play peaceful, building up my initial cities untl later, & chose progress which is good for most things. I was basically on a continent on my own, with Indonesia, who I have never had any real dealings with, who seemed amicable enough & wasn't a known aggresive civ, & had also picked Progress. Then just around the time of Christianity he attacked. It wasn't like I had no troops, but they were only archers, spearmen, Horsemen & he came in hard with Skirmishers, Catapults, Composite Bowmen, which I could handle, but I hadn't checked his UU, as he is also came in with these kick ass Swordsman, which were deadly. With this war dragging on only one way I feel & falling way behind in science & tech, I was going to try this game again, but this time taking authority & smashing him down early. I had a save from start, as I always do, if wanting to try things out.

The reason I am commenting in this thread was a question about religion or basically what happens if I don't get one, considering my main abilities are set up regarding religion. Normally my first task is to beeline to Stonehenge to get a Pantheon, but if I going authority, not building cities early on & taking him out early I don't want to find down the line I don't get one. The other thing I have noticed is five religions can be formed, which is strange in a 8 civ game. Does this mean one civ automatically gets one? Would be interested in peoples thoughts.

I think five religions is normal in a standard game.

With Spain, you don't need to go stonehenge or even build a shrine, because the UA will give you most of the faith you need for a pantheon. You can either make a second settler or buy/wait for a few tiles and you'll still get a pantheon earlier than the AI. Building a shrine is fine too, but you should probably not build it first since there is no need. Monument or worker first is good depending on the circumstances.
 
What do you guys think of the Hacienda?
I find it hard to justify building it over the ordinary improvements unless it has at least 3 adjacency bonuses which is uncommon to have more than one in a given city unless it's a barren tundra or desert tile given the low base yields of just 1 :c5gold: and 1 BGP especially that it comes in late medieval.
For the record the original Hacienda in 4th UC had better base yields, the city adjacency bonus was +1:c5culture:, 1:c5faith: from Missions and an additional 1:c5culture: for all Haciendas at Architecture.
The new Hacienda gets a tech boost of 1:c5food:1:c5production: at Architecture and 1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold: at fertilizer which is overall more yields but comes way later than the original 1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold:.
I think the older one was better as the current one is just lack luster and honestly i think the only reason i would be 'spamming' it is Military industrial complex buff if i'm going for autocracy.
 
Spoiler :

Spanish Hacienda
1:c5gold:1:(
2:c5food:/:c5production:/:c5gold:/:( for each adjacent resource/city
Tech boosts: 1:c5production:1:c5food: and 1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold:

French Chateau
Available 1 tech earlier (chivalry)
slightly harder to place
2:c5culture:3:c5food:3:c5gold:
Tile defense
tech boosts: 1:c5culture: and 2:c5gold:2:c5culture:

Dutch Polder
Same tech level (Guilds)
slightly easier to place
3:c5food:2:c5gold:1:c5production:
1:c5gold: to adjacent villages
Tech boosts: 1:c5production:2:c5gold: and 1:c5culture:

Portugueses Feitoria
Literally same tech (Compass)
much harder to place
3:c5gold:3:c5production:
defense boost, 1:c5gold: to adjacent ocean, 2:c5production: to acjacent fishing boats
Crazy luxury stealing mechanic and TR yield boosts
Tech boosts: 2:c5culture: and 2:c5gold: and 2:c5production:

So, a Spanish Hacienda needs 3+ adjacent resources to be competitive with a Chateau
It's probably on the same footing as a Polder re: power (mind you, some have argued it is the weakest UI in the game)
Much weaker than the Feitoria, but the Feitoria's main power is it's crazy utility

Interested to hear how more people feel about the Hacienda. How would you change it? How strong should it be relative to those other Medieval UIs?
 
Spoiler :

Spanish Hacienda
1:c5gold:1:(
2:c5food:/:c5production:/:c5gold:/:( for each adjacent resource/city
Tech boosts: 1:c5production:1:c5food: and 1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold:

French Chateau
Available 1 tech earlier (chivalry)
slightly harder to place
2:c5culture:3:c5food:3:c5gold:
Tile defense
tech boosts: 1:c5culture: and 2:c5gold:2:c5culture:

Dutch Polder
Same tech level (Guilds)
slightly easier to place
3:c5food:2:c5gold:1:c5production:
1:c5gold: to adjacent villages
Tech boosts: 1:c5production:2:c5gold: and 1:c5culture:

Portugueses Feitoria
Literally same tech (Compass)
much harder to place
3:c5gold:3:c5production:
defense boost, 1:c5gold: to adjacent ocean, 2:c5production: to acjacent fishing boats
Crazy luxury stealing mechanic and TR yield boosts
Tech boosts: 2:c5culture: and 2:c5gold: and 2:c5production:

So, a Spanish Hacienda needs 3+ adjacent resources to be competitive with a Chateau
It's probably on the same footing as a Polder re: power (mind you, some have argued it is the weakest UI in the game)
Much weaker than the Feitoria, but the Feitoria's main power is it's crazy utility

Interested to hear how more people feel about the Hacienda. How would you change it? How strong should it be relative to those other Medieval UIs?
I think the main problem with Hacienda is it's low base yields and IMO the loss of culture from city adjacency bonus was unnecessary (it was never OP or nerf-worthy in the first place), it's supposed to be carried by the adjacency bonuses but honestly the luxury resource bonus is really weak (3:c5gold:1:() that a village without road or trade route bonus is better (2:c5gold:1:c5culture:) ..... 2 :( from city adjacency effect is barely noticeable that i would never bother with it if there are no other adjacency bonuses.
Bonus and strategic resource adjacency are fine IMO but as you said the Hacienda has to has at least 3 bonuses to compete with a chateau or a polder in terms of raw number of yields regardless of individual yield value (Chateua has a base 2 culture and polder gets a culture boost, the Hacienda has none).
I would personally like to see it reverted to the way it was in 4thUC, (Base yields of 1:c5gold:1:c5food:1:c5production:, 1:c5faith:from castles, 1:c5culture: from city adjacency, gets a boost of 1:c5culture: 1:c5production: at architecture)
 
I'm over halfway through my first game this patch as Isabella, and I'd have to agree with Noob. I had good villages established, and once Haciendas came online there were several situations where I hesitated to (or didn't) replace the village(s). On paper, the +bgp is actually a great idea because of the synergy with her UA, but in reality it's kind of underwhelming and doesn't bring enough incentive without the culture.
 
I'm over halfway through my first game this patch as Isabella, and I'd have to agree with Noob. I had good villages established, and once Haciendas came online there were several situations where I hesitated to (or didn't) replace the village(s). On paper, the +bgp is actually a great idea because of the synergy with her UA, but in reality it's kind of underwhelming and doesn't bring enough incentive without the culture.

Maybe buffing that aspect should be a good solution for now, then ?
 
Maybe buffing that aspect should be a good solution for now, then ?
Maybe give back culture adjacency, and then to preserve the expansion aspect of her kit you could incorporate the bgp into the UA along with the gold/faith; gaining tiles would feed into gaining more tiles, bolstering the trait.
 
Maybe give back culture adjacency, and then to preserve the expansion aspect of her kit you could incorporate the bgp into the UA along with the gold/faith; gaining tiles would feed into gaining more tiles, bolstering the trait.
That seems too synergistic, I would prefer to just slightly buff the hacienda, it's more interesting.
 
I think the main problem with Hacienda is it's low base yields and IMO the loss of culture from city adjacency bonus was unnecessary (it was never OP or nerf-worthy in the first place), it's supposed to be carried by the adjacency bonuses but honestly the luxury resource bonus is really weak (3:c5gold:1:() that a village without road or trade route bonus is better (2:c5gold:1:c5culture:) ..... 2 :( from city adjacency effect is barely noticeable that i would never bother with it if there are no other adjacency bonuses.
Bonus and strategic resource adjacency are fine IMO but as you said the Hacienda has to has at least 3 bonuses to compete with a chateau or a polder in terms of raw number of yields regardless of individual yield value (Chateua has a base 2 culture and polder gets a culture boost, the Hacienda has none).
I would personally like to see it reverted to the way it was in 4thUC, (Base yields of 1:c5gold:1:c5food:1:c5production:, 1:c5faith:from castles, 1:c5culture: from city adjacency, gets a boost of 1:c5culture: 1:c5production: at architecture)
Another thing to consider now is that with the Bullring (which you'll obviously build in every city), forests/jungle are also getting +2 culture/tourism, so I found myself hesitant to even chop some of those tiles for the same reason as the villages; without the culture, Haciendas just don't hit the same.

How about tweak it like: base yields of 1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold:, 1:c5faith:from castles, 2:c5gold: from city adjacency and 1:c5culture: from luxury adjacency (swapping these might be unnecessary, idk...), gets a boost of 1:c5culture: 1:c5production: at architecture. Incorporate the bgp back in there somewhere, and it might be solid.
 
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Maybe BGPs was the wrong play? especially with forts switching to BGP

How about this

Old Spanish Hacienda

1:c5gold:1:(
2:c5food:/:c5production:/:c5gold:/:( for each adjacent resource/city
Tech boosts: 1:c5production:1:c5food: and 1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold:

New Spanish Hacienda
1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold: base yields
2:c5food:/:c5production:/:c5gold:/:c5culture: for each adjacent bonus/strategic/luxury/city
Tech boosts: 1:c5culture: at architecture and 1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold: at Fertilizer

Get rid of the BGP, and upgrade it to culture.
I don't understand the thematic reasoning behind a boost from castles. Doesn't seem to jibe with me, now that the Mission isn't Spain's unique building
 
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Maybe BGPs was the wrong play? especially with forts switching to BGP

How about this

Old Spanish Hacienda

1:c5gold:1:(
2:c5food:/:c5production:/:c5gold:/:( for each adjacent resource/city
Tech boosts: 1:c5production:1:c5food: and 1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold:

New Spanish Hacienda
1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold: base yields
2:c5food:/:c5production:/:c5gold:/:c5culture: for each adjacent resource/city
Tech boosts: 1:c5culture: at architecture and 1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold: at Fertilizer

Get rid of the BGP, and upgrade it to culture.
I don't understand the thematic reasoning behind a boost from castles. Doesn't seem to jibe with me, now that the Mission isn't Spain's unique building
Yeah that seems to be about right on the money. I think you'll mostly place it with 2 adjacency bonuses for 7 yield improvements tiles that rival chateau trading defense and average culture for higher max yields and more placement options. I also like that you're not encouraged to mindlessly spam them.
 
New Spanish Hacienda
1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold: base yields
2:c5food:/:c5production:/:c5gold:/:c5culture: for each adjacent resource/city
Tech boosts: 1:c5culture: at architecture and 1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5gold: at Fertilizer
This is absolutly silly... One adjactancy and you would gain a 8 yield tile right after researching the improvement, 13 if you have 2 ressources or the city nearby, which is absolutly no problem. Playing a communitas map and gaining several 13-18 yield tiles in medieval is simply ridicously overpowered.
 
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