Spearman 1 : 0 Tank

[GeneralZed]

Firaxis says spearmen wont win a fight against a tank any more. Does this mean that the realism of fights will be generally improved with all units or only with spearmen? Like for instance in my current game: frigates beated up my subs and cruisers beated my battleships...

 

[The Last Conformist]

My money is that it's gonna affect all cases where there's a huge tech gap between units.

For the record, in years of playing CivIII, I've still not seen a Tank lose to a Spearman. I'm getting miffed that other people are getting all the fun!

 

[GeneralZed]

Fun ? It's more misfortune I say! Try to play on the easiest level, that's where I mostly see this phenomenon.

 

[Stid]

i had TWO mech infantries beaten by medieval infantry before on a mountain. after that i just bombed the hell outta him

 

[Tomoyo]

i had TWO mech infantries beaten by medieval infantry before on a mountain. after that i just bombed the hell outta him

Meh, I consistantly use longbowmen to take out tanks and modern armour!

 

[punkbass2000]

Did any of you ever lose Battleship to a Settler in Civ1?

And, more on topic, I wouldn't mind them removing the possibility in ridiculous cases like Tank vs. Spearman, but I certainly hope a Musketman has at least a 5-10% chance for taking out a Tank.

 

[Chieftess]

Fun ? It's more misfortune I say! Try to play on the easiest level, that's where I mostly see this phenomenon.

On Monarch and lower, you should get plenty of AI spearmen to practice on...

 

[Gogf]

I believe that there will be large bonuses for units later on in time.

This could of course be accomplished simply by having bonus HP.

*Runs off and starts experimenting with modding HP amounts*

 

[warpstorm]

In dozens upon dozens of games I've seen it exactly one time.

 

[Xerol]

Meh, try losing a MA to a fortified longbow on grassland. (Granted, the MA had 2/4 HP and the longbow was 5/5 and sitting on top of an artillery. Actually, it's not too unlikely that the longbow would win...he gets 5 chances(the artillery took out 1 HP already) to knock out one HP, at a 1/25 chance each, which is 7962624/9765625 chance for the MA to win, and 1803001/9765625 for the longbow to win...hm.)

 

[North King]

And, more on topic, I wouldn't mind them removing the possibility in ridiculous cases like Tank vs. Spearman, but I certainly hope a Musketman has at least a 5-10% chance for taking out a Tank.

I hope not. Muskets wouldn't do anything against something specifically designed to withstand modern machine guns.

 

[punkbass2000]

Who cares? It's a game; it's abstract. I personnally do not want a game where technology wins outright. Especially with the Epic game that it is, where there are only five or so of any unit "type" throughout the game (Spearmen, Pikemen, etc. are defense units), having a unit like a tank (two "offense" units beyond Musketmen) gives too great an advantage. Maybe if you had many, constant upgrades between units with gradual increases in power/cost, I might agree with you, but that seems too cumbersome for game that begins in 4000BC.

 

[Bluemofia]

I once almost lost a tank to a warrior. the warrior was on a mountain with full health, and the tank was at full health as well. ended up with 1 health left.

 

[Strato]

Perhaps a logarithmic scale would work? Basically, units from say three ages ahead ctualy have an attack power that is 20 times stronger than what units from the first age (using a natural log).

 

[GeneralZed]

Isnt there a way to change the system so this can never happen? Something like that Apolyton site did/is doing to CIV 2?

Did any of you ever lose Battleship to a Settler in Civ1?

:shakehead

 

[Gogf]

Meh, try losing a MA to a fortified longbow on grassland. (Granted, the MA had 2/4 HP and the longbow was 5/5 and sitting on top of an artillery. Actually, it's not too unlikely that the longbow would win...he gets 5 chances(the artillery took out 1 HP already) to knock out one HP, at a 1/25 chance each, which is 7962624/9765625 chance for the MA to win, and 1803001/9765625 for the longbow to win...hm.)

I question your math there. It would seem logically like the longbow has a 1/5 chance of winning . I could of course, not be thinking clearly, having to actually wake up at a reasonable time to go to school...

 

[North King]

Who cares? It's a game; it's abstract. I personnally do not want a game where technology wins outright. Especially with the Epic game that it is, where there are only five or so of any unit "type" throughout the game (Spearmen, Pikemen, etc. are defense units), having a unit like a tank (two "offense" units beyond Musketmen) gives too great an advantage. Maybe if you had many, constant upgrades between units with gradual increases in power/cost, I might agree with you, but that seems too cumbersome for game that begins in 4000BC.

Technology should not win outright, but when there's a 5% chance that a musketman will win, 1/20 of times, we will see the tank being blasted apart by a 15th century musketman... The complaints on it will still be here, they will just be slightly less ridiculous.

 

[Kayak]

I agree with punkbass. Besides, if I'm attacking a spearman with a tank and the tank loses whats the big deal? I'll have another tank up there soon. You've won that game anyway if the disparity is that great.

 

[bluebox]

I agree with punkbass. Besides, if I'm attacking a spearman with a tank and the tank loses whats the big deal? I'll have another tank up there soon. You've won that game anyway if the disparity is that great.

I agree with Kayak, punkbass, etc. I haven't seen it in-game, it didn't happen to me, the infamous tank-vs.-spearman loss, but I wouldn't ponder too much if it would happen. It's rediculous, sure, but you *could* imagine a story how it happened. C'mon, give'm a chance even if it's 1:100.

I believe the said loss happens when you're not clever or experienced enough to handle your units right. You've got tanks and you think you can do anything with them, e.g. let's capture that city size 7 on a hill across a river with a fortified spearman in it! That's 15 out of 100 times the spearman wins if the tank is regular and the spearman is veteran. And then you stack is to small or you even tried it with a single tank.

To totally avoid it you have to quit the rng system. Or include automatic era-specific upgrades to units, so tanks and spearmen never meet. That would also solve the problem.

 

[Lennon]

I agree with punkbass. Besides, if I'm attacking a spearman with a tank and the tank loses whats the big deal? I'll have another tank up there soon. You've won that game anyway if the disparity is that great.

With the AI upgrading pace, that isn't necessarily true at all.