Spearmen as a counter to horsemen?

[lordrune]

Is there a reason we don't have spearmen/pikemen in this mod? Or are archers/longbows meant to be the defensive counter to horse rushes? I know its late in the development, and I'm sure there was a point to leaving them out, but I'm scratching my head as to why they're not there...

 

[xalien]

I'd say good riddance. In vanilla BTS it seemed that whatever unit you pick for attack on enemy stack there would always something in there designed to combat that specific unit. This encouraged defensive tactic instead of offensive and I'm glad we don't have it here.

 

[Willgar]

Is there a reason we don't have spearmen/pikemen in this mod? Or are archers/longbows meant to be the defensive counter to horse rushes? I know its late in the development, and I'm sure there was a point to leaving them out, but I'm scratching my head as to why they're not there...

We did, they were taken out - have a search in the forums as to the reason

 

[Wauthan]

Well I don't know why spearmen/pikemen where removed but Ahwaric put them back in as part of his OrbiMod. Glad he did because being invaded by a horde horsemen with copper weapons early game is even worse then Marnoks suprises.

 

[Wyrmhero]

They were removed since there were too many choices with the metal line, and it just meant that it was more confusing really.

 

[Fenboy]

They were removed since there were too many choices with the metal line, and it just meant that it was more confusing really.

Similar to the reasons Conjurers & Summoners got taken out eh? To be honest I wouldn't mind that much if Chariots & Horse Archers were streamlined into a single unit, but for those civs that have the art for both the Chariot & Horse Archer unit already done (Clan, Hippus, Grigori, Kuriotates, Malakim & Infernals off the top of my head).

Rangers & Assassins definitely need to be seperate units though.

 

[heisenberg]

Is there a reason we don't have spearmen/pikemen in this mod? Or are archers/longbows meant to be the defensive counter to horse rushes? I know its late in the development, and I'm sure there was a point to leaving them out, but I'm scratching my head as to why they're not there...

lol archery units were not meant to be counters for calvary, most mounted units have some sort of bonus against archery units.
I usually use metal line units to deal with mounted ones, going for raw combat promos and formation instead of drill promos since high flanking cancels out first strikes.

 

[lordrune]

lol archery units were not meant to be counters for calvary, most mounted units have some sort of bonus against archery units.
I usually use metal line units to deal with mounted ones, going for raw combat promos and formation instead of drill promos since high flanking cancels out first strikes.

Ah okay. Formation's a good idea, I'll pursue the thought of specialising some melee troops that way next game I'm close to the usual suspects *cough* Tasunke /*cough*

I guess in FFH, because the promotions are more pronounced, you can create your own custom-counter units anyway, so long as you find a way of getting them a bit of XP.

 

[heisenberg]

Early on simply warrior spamming is a pretty decent cost effective defense against the Hippus especially if you have copper, and maybe a couple of axemen to kill their higher promoted horsemen.
Horsemen are pretty weak at 4 str and w/o defensive bonuses after all.

 

[Mailbox]

That brings up the problem of warrior spamming being too effective though, I think if warrior spam was less viable, then horsemen would need a "nerf". I think giving them a penalty for attacking cities would be nice, horsemen should be pillaging and not attacking cities.

 

[heisenberg]

Yea... especially when you get copper, a str 4 warrior comes at a much cheaper hammer price than a str 5 axeman, so its more cost effective sometimes.

I do like FF's idea of making axemen do bonus damage to warriors though, somehow sounding the death knell to using mass warriors to defend cities in the "bronze age".

That said, I'm not exactly certain that horsemen really needs a nerf badly though, they are already kinda weak at str 4 and unable to pick up metal weapons.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

In general, there are less unit counters in FfH because promotions are stronger and so youcan basically build your own counter force that way.

(edit: as lordrune already surmised)

Some units do still retain a bonus against a unit class, such as some mounted units, probably because they were felt to be a bit lacking in use.

 

[Humakty]

It's true that with the doubled promotion bonus, pikeman and spearman units were too efficient against cavalry. You could end up with a 180 % bonus quite fast, making cavalry units useless.

 

[deadliver]

I always try to get horsemen to counter horsemen unless I have infantry with formation. I also use ranged attack to soften them up if I have the opportunity.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Ranged attacks meaning magic, or a modmod?

 

[deadliver]

heh yeah got my mods all mixed up. Ignore me. For FFH2 I simply use my powers of idiocy to overwhelm the AI.

 

[Grey Fox]

It would be cool if you could change weapons on the melee line, so instead of there being Iron weapons, there would be Iron Swords, Iron Axes and Iron Spears. But not sure if it would be fun in the long run, maybe a bit too much micromanagement.

 

[westamastaflash]

That brings up the problem of warrior spamming being too effective though, I think if warrior spam was less viable, then horsemen would need a "nerf". I think giving them a penalty for attacking cities would be nice, horsemen should be pillaging and not attacking cities.

I just warrior spammed Hyborem! :-D