Specialist Citizens

[yendorII]

I'm sorry this may seem a stupid question but here it is anyway.

How do I use the specialists? I never had to in civ III because the ai did just enough to get by and I was able to win the game without them so I never bothered to learn.

Now however the ai is getting like 3 times the GL that I am and around double the GAs. I am obviously doing something wrong as this is on noble and I shouldn't be that far behind. Even when I build lots of wonders they still get tons more than I do.

How should I use these citizens to their fullest extent? When? At what city size? Any help would be much appreciated as I wish to get good at this game and cant really hope to advance if I dont master something so simple yet important.

 

[Rustypipe]

If you want a city to crank out tons of great people your best bet is to find a flood lands area with wheat or pigs or something with a tile near buy and just farm everything around the city and cottage what you can farm. Then when your city has hit a decent size slow it down and put on a ton of specilists in the city to increase your GP rate. Usally a good city like this setup right can get upwards of 5+ specialists in it by late game. Also build all the wonders that add to this there is a few I forget all there names but just take a decent look down the tech tree and try to be first to get the tech and build it.

Also another good stragey is to try build the stonehenge as early as possible as this adds +2 GP very early in the game.

Another trick to help crank out your wonders in your food supplying town is if you have any forest near buy save it for what you want to build fast then clear cut most of it. Each piece adds +30 hammers.

 

[yendorII]

So basically you specialize one city that has a ton of extra food to be a GP farm? OK I can see that thanks for the tip.

 

[Rustypipe]

Yeah you got it, except the rule of thumb I use for that city is if the tile will not produce more food then a cottage I dont' farm the tile I put a cottage instead, other then that pop out as much food and put on some extra specialists. There is also a civic that lets you generate 100% more GP points. You may want to b-line for that and switch to it early on.

Also when choping down forest if you want to get a few more hammers out of the deal switch to organized religion for a +25% build speed bonus. That will get you ruffly 37.5 hammers instead of 30, every little bit helps

 

[crazybeard]

To put it another way, you know the number of citizens in your city, all of whom willl be eating (at least) 2 food per turn. The maximum # of tiles that can be worked is that number +1 (the city tile is always worked). Once you've assigned pop to work resource tiles, and you have enough food for the entire population, you can spare citziens to do other things.

Obviously, it's important to feed your peeps, but I think the above posters but a bit too much emphasis on "food factories".

[EDIT: Corrected food consumption. Thanks, snepp]

 

[snepp]

To put it another way, you know the number of citizens in your city, all of whom willl be eating (at least) 1 food per turn.

2/turn per person.

 

[podraza]

Ok, I almost understand this.

If you assign a specialist, the trade-off is that you lose the chance to work a tile. So you give up either money, growth, or production in order to get the specialist.

So what does the specialist give you in return? I know he gives you great person points towards a particular great person, but does he give you anything else?

 

[snepp]

So what does the specialist give you in return? I know he gives you great person points towards a particular great person, but does he give you anything else?

They give different combinations of hammers, science, culture, and gold per turn.

 

[podraza]

They give different combinations of hammers, science, culture, and gold per turn.

Ok, good. Now I fear I am going to be told "it depends", but I'll ask anyway. Is the combination of goodies given by the specialist better than what you can get from a typical tile? Is a specialist superior to a citizen on average?

In other words, should I try to always have the maximum number of specialists I can afford (and still be a reasonably large city)?

 

[Scop]

Ok, good. Now I fear I am going to be told "it depends", but I'll ask anyway. Is the combination of goodies given by the specialist better than what you can get from a typical tile? Is a specialist superior to a citizen on average?

In other words, should I try to always have the maximum number of specialists I can afford (and still be a reasonably large city)?

It depends .

You can't just make specialists like mad; you need buildings to support them. For instance, a market and a bank allow you to create 1 merchant each (and there may be other buildings that add this capacity). Scientists require libraries, universities, and so forth. Only citizen specialists have no requirements, and those only give 1 shield (which could certainly help if you can't make an engineer!)

Also, in order to support specialists, you're going to need a lot of people on food detail, so you'll have to worry about food production, health, and happiness. And flood plans aren't terribly great for the health deal, so you may want to plan your tech routes accordingly to get construction (aquaduct), guilds (grocer), and compass (harbor).

Most specialists give 2-3 of something; scientists 3 research, merchants 3 gold, engineers 2 hammers, priests 1 gold/1 hammer. Arists give 1 research and 4 culture, but I'd say that 4 culture is about equivalent.

Sounds like they may not be worth going for, but there's some civics and wonders that help. Representation gives all specialists +3 research; even a citizen can be useful there. Caste system lets you create unlimited artist/merchant/scientist specialists, without regards to buildings. You can put them both together for good effect, I'd imagine. Ankgor Wat, Sisten Chapel both increase the output of specialists. I believe there's a wonder that gives a free specialist per city, and Mercantilism gives you a free specialist per city.

Finally, don't forget great person points; all non-citizen specialists generate 3 a turn. You can of course use them to research techs for free/reduced cost, religion shrines, academies, hurrying production, one time culture bonuses, trade missions, golden ages, and of course super specialists. Philosophical helps here as well (double GP points if I recall correctly).

So specialists' turn-to-turn in isolation aren't bad, but aren't really that special. If you focus on them, it would appear you can make them do some very effective things. I haven't really made much of a deal out of them, but perhaps I should. It's all a matter of whether you have the position to support them or not.

 

[snepp]

Ok, good. Now I fear I am going to be told "it depends", but I'll ask anyway. Is the combination of goodies given by the specialist better than what you can get from a typical tile? Is a specialist superior to a citizen on average?

In other words, should I try to always have the maximum number of specialists I can afford (and still be a reasonably large city)?

Well, really, it depends. (sorry, couldn't resist)

There are times where the specialists can help you out more than just upping your great person points. The engineer and prophet both give hammers, which can be incredibly helpful in low hammer areas. The artist provides culture, which is excellent for new cities (or captured cities) to get your borders pushed out as quickly as possible. Keep in mind that specialists don't provide any food, so you need to be working squares with excess in them.

To try answering your last question, if you have a city that you are trying to use as a great person factory, you'd typically want high food production in order to maximize the number of specialists you can run. In my experience (I make no claims at being any good) don't sacrifice tile workers unless you intend to get a great person out of that city. By the time you get towards end-game, the next great person is going to take so many points that the only cities with a prayer of reaching it are those you have setup to do so.

 

[podraza]

Thanks guys, I'm starting to get it.

I guess I just need to get out there and play more games. People always say "this or that depends on what you are trying to do". But most of the time, I'm trying to do everything. I'm just trying to grow the city, produce things, grow culture, etc. I want to do all of these things, so its hard for me to make these choices that require trade-offs.