Specialists... when and how to allocate, help please

[Sabrina]

Hi everyone,

This is a spinoff from my previous thread (the first game on king one). Since most of you play in higher levels, that may not even be an interesting reading, so here goes my problem. I have 1.5k something hours of civ and just finished my first game on king, a lucky victory, more details in the original thread if anyone is interested, that's not the point here. The point is that I leave my cities on DEFAULT focus all the time, changing to production in some very special cases, like rushing a wonder or winning WFs & IGs.

I end up having all these science, production and money buildings without any specialists at all, unless the default focus put them there for me, because I just don't know how to do it. I do know the mechanics, like the checkbox and clicking where you want to put specialists, what I am clueless about is the decision of where and when to do that.

Someone said on my previous post that I can get like 8k beakers when bulbing if I have specialists on my science buildings for example... I am starting to think the specialists are my main gaming issue right now (well, this and the wonder whoring, which I am starting to get over), so if anyone knows about a good tutorial on how to properly designate my specialists or can post some good advice here, please let me know. This may be the game changer for me TY!

 

[FeiLing]

Scientists: Asap and always, everywhere.
Merchants: Never (except maybe Venice).
Artist: Never unless you run out of tiles to work for food/hammers/science.
Engineers: When you want more hammers and they are your next best hammer tiles or if you want a great engineer or two (usually capital).

 

[Sabrina]

TY, FeiLing... the default focus usually puts only specialists on the guilds and start filling science buildings only when the population is big enough. When you mean ASAP, you mean right after building the first library, for example? Do you have any idea of how much surplus food I should be making to do that without delaying the growth of the cities? TY!

 

[FeiLing]

Oh ye, Guild specialist --> When you want a Cultural Victory (and then asap and always).
Also to increase Culture output for Social Policies and getting a great writer lategame (also for SP/Culture) or maybe an great artist too for a Golden Age (but only if you got a huge pop in the guild city and can't work for food tiles any more).

First scientist slots come with Universities, not Libraries. It's hard to put 2 in there if the cities pop is only 5... I'm thinking 7-8 pop is when you usually want both university slots to be filled permanently. But just look at how long it takes to grow. Usually I'd rather grow in 10 turns and then have the specialist in than to grow in 30 turns. For public schools and science labs there should be any questions. Just put them in.

It's actually common to rush buy universities, public schools and science labs and immediately put in the specialists. That is just how important science is.

 

[Sabrina]

Oh yes, universities, see how I am clueless about specialists??? Yours sounds like a good plan, I will definitely try. I usually stack up the ToA and the HG in my capital, so food is not a problem there. I always leave the specialists in the guilds because they give, besides the artists, writers and musicians, 3 CPT each, so it is a good deal even when I'm not going for a cultural victory. In my last game, I tried to get the reformation belief that allows me to buy science buildings with faith, but I was too late. I could have gotten if I didn't waste 1 SP on tradition just to get more wonder production, but who knows if I would manage to get the ToA and the HG without it? Anyway, I got the one that allows me to buy any kind of GP with faith, so it was a good deal, but I guess my scientists would have bulbed better if I had specialists on my universities, see my point here?

Anyway, thank you for your very helpful tips, I will definitely try it on my next king game (still undecided between Pedro and Casimir... man I have to try other BNW civs, but these 2, and Pocatello, of course are awesome!). Anyway, if I want to try passing the AI in science BEFORE the industrial era, I guess Brazil is the way to go, but the early production sucks

 

[erhaminus]

Culture from specialists are more valuable now because most culture buildings were nerfed (+1 culture). Most culture you can gain from great works.

Anyway, as mentioned above, I usually get scientists (university) and engineers (workshop) as soon as possible (+1 artist slot extra). Finally, when I fill all these slots I put more writers/artists. I never get merchants if my city is not large enough (or Freedom ideologies are adopted), I don't find them especially useful.

IMHO most imporant is right balance between food and specialists in this aspect. Temple of Artemis (+10% growth), belief (+10% growth), religion (+15% growth if not in war), Tradition finisher (+15% growth) and Hanging Gardens (+6 food) can help much. Be aware that because of trade routes (+food) you can always get more food (Colossus can help here - 1 extra trade route).

Specialists are crazy with Freedom ideology (half food, half unhappiness), rationalism (+2 science per specialist) if you have big cities. Korea gives even more power (+2 science per specialist). I usually play as Poland and I believe that they work great as well (free policies).

A very important thing with specialists is that they boost great person birth.

So, in summary, don't bother too much with specialists if you don't have several good food bonuses or river/lake and Civil Service. Don't forget about Aqueduct building. Focus on city's growth as much as possible. Usually I start from putting one science specialist on University/Workshop, then University again. I tend to never go below +5/+6 food in the city.

 

[Sabrina]

Great points there, thank you! The game allocates specialists to the guilds, which I find useful, but hardly to universities and workshops. Then I always end up making huge lots of tourism but lacking science. I had no idea that they boost GP birth. I will try doing that on my next game, watching the city growth, of course. Actually I just started one as Brazil a few minutes ago, but quit after finding out who were my neighbors (Ashurbanipal & Attila), not a single chance of survival

 

[Aaron90495]

A few points:

Just to clear this up, the reason you'll get more science from bulbing isn't primarily because you have specialists in the slots; it's because, with specialists generating GS's, you probably have at least 4 academies when you bulb.

This is a bit off-topic, but I thought it was worth a mention. How quickly are you getting the NC up? A quick NC is almost as important in catching up to the AI's as GS's and specialists are. Shoot for getting it up between T70-100...if you can do that, you'll catch up VERY quickly on King.

And finally, I would always run the guild slots, provided that you can still work the scientist slots with a reasonable food surplus. You need them for GA's/GW's/GM's, and without any of those you'll really hurt for culture in the late game. Being able to fill out Rationalism and your chosen Ideology quickly are key, and you won't be able to do that without a decent number of culture GP's.

 

[Sabrina]

Thank you, Aaron, I always build the NC as soon as possible, never paid attention to the number of turns... Anyway, just as an update, I started a new game yesterday as Poland, managed to put 2 specialists in the university in my capital (ToA + HG) and still put one specialist on each guild. More than that would hurt my growth at this time. Trying to relocate some internal trade routes now to see if the internal food supply will allow me to put specialists in my other universities. Planted my first GS near the capital because of Oxford and surprisingly, I'm leading in science very early this time. Founded the WC, built the leaning tower, got a GE and rushed the Forbidden Palace. I started the game with a lot of gold as luxury and adopted religious idols as pantheon. Went for cathedrals and pagodas as beliefs and got the reformation belief that gives 2 tourism for each religious building. So, I guess this, plus the free SP at each era will somehow cover my delay in filling completely my guild slots. If I keep this pace, I may still be able to be the first to get an ideology. I won't fill patronage, I just opened it for the FP, to avoid losing the WC leadership before I get enough cash to buy my CS alliances. One more SP and I get the Piety finisher, then go for Rationalism. In the meantime, since my happiness is doing well and everybody already hates me because I destroyed Caesar, I may DoW Sully to get a few more coastal cities... He's been threatening me since I settled too close to his capital, just to keep Isabella from settling near the King Solomon's mines, LOL. I guess she would have already attacked me if she could, 3 natural wonders are within my borders, unfortunately one will never be worked.

 

[joncnunn]

Here's what I do; this will duplicate a lot of the above ...

Moment the city builds any specialist building; lock manual control of specialists. If there was a way to do this first, I'd do so.

Science slots: Run all of them at all times in every city unless the city's growth would be negative. (If that would be the case, see if you can increase food there)

Enginner slots: Only run if Scientists spots taken, the city has a decent population already and there isn't a decent tile to work.

Merchant slots: Vanilla and G&K: Never. BNW: almost never Unless playing Venice, and even then shut them off in your capital after you've spawned a few. Also in BNW, if you choose the freedom ideology, have no tile to work, and if there's no risk of actually spawning a Great Merchant.

Artist slots (Vanilla and G&K only): Never unless planning a cultural victory. If you are, then always.

Guild slots (BNW only): This is now also an always. If food is a problem, just continue to add food cargo ships until it no longer is. (Each food cargo ship is 8+ food) Don't be afraid to run 3 food cargo ships to your capital. It's best if you have a coastal start.

 

[Walter R]

Here's what I do; this will duplicate a lot of the above ...

Moment the city builds any specialist building; lock manual control of specialists. If there was a way to do this first, I'd do so.

Science slots: Run all of them at all times in every city unless the city's growth would be negative. (If that would be the case, see if you can increase food there)

Enginner slots: Only run if Scientists spots taken, the city has a decent population already and there isn't a decent tile to work.

Merchant slots: Vanilla and G&K: Never. BNW: almost never Unless playing Venice, and even then shut them off in your capital after you've spawned a few. Also in BNW, if you choose the freedom ideology, have no tile to work, and if there's no risk of actually spawning a Great Merchant.

Artist slots (Vanilla and G&K only): Never unless planning a cultural victory. If you are, then always.

Guild slots (BNW only): This is now also an always. If food is a problem, just continue to add food cargo ships until it no longer is. (Each food cargo ship is 8+ food) Don't be afraid to run 3 food cargo ships to your capital. It's best if you have a coastal start.

Thanks. I play G&K and this is what I thought, so it's good to get some confirmation.

 

[Ninakoru]

Well, all that wuss about GS is because science is vital, once you are on tech lead, you get so much benefits, so as the game difficulty is higher is more a science catch-up game, on Deity the game is mostly a science game whatever CV you are pursuing, and you will not be leading until midgame, and sometimes never.

On specialists there's usually a soft spot, that is 10 pop. Many people don't put specialists until the city is that big. This is not that way strictly, I'm more with 11 pop when I start putting specialists, but if all good tiles are locked and you have a good food surplus, you could put them much earlier.

I only use merchants if I go commerce and once if I finish it. 1600 to 2000 gold is no joke with 25% discount on commerce, 15% from big beng (optional but easy, AI doesn't like commerce much) and 33% for units/building from Autocracy/Order tenets.

 

[Sabrina]

I didn't pay attention to the size when I started to assign the specialists, just got sure I would have a food surplus of 10 after filling a certain slot. The artists slots were all filled as soon as available and I relocated some internal trade routes to fill the scientist ones as soon as they got available. When I got out of good tiles to work with "regular citizens", I started to fill the engineer & merchant slots too.

I adopted Freedom and built the Statue of Liberty, so when it comes to specialists, the more the merrier The big change is definitely in science. I planted 5 academies around my capital and now, each time I expend a GS, I make 6.2k beakers, this is 3 times what I did in previous games. Have to say I still don't have research labs, I was too busy building the SoL & the Neuschwanstein and still winning the international games with my other cities when I got the tech. Now just a few more turns to finish the castles and then the labs.

The funniest thing is that in my previous games, at this stage of the game, I usually run out of buildings and end up producing research or wealth until I get a new tech for something else. Now my science is so far ahead my production (very good, btw) that I had to buy the broadcast tower in my capital so I could produce other things, I am discovering new techs much faster than I can profit from them. IDK, maybe I was just lucky in this game, or maybe the specialists thing was really my Achilles heel...