Specialists?

[steviet32]

Reading thru the posts, I have picked up some valuable information. Reading the D-succession games, I noticed that specialists are created very early. Can you give me some guidence on when and where in my cities I should build specialists.

 

[funxus]

Build specialists? As in taking one worker off the land and assign him to entertain, collect tax or research?

I'm no expert on that, but my reasons for assigning specialists would be:
the city is unhappy and needs an entertainer to keep it happy.
I don't want the city to grow, so I cut its food supplies by either rearranging the workers or/and assign a specialist.
Maybe if I'd need extra science and money (to finish a tech), I'd turn several workers in cities to scientist or tax collectors. Probably more useful early on.
If you have cut all science (only rely on caravans/freights, 0% sci) one scientist is needed to actually discover it once the caravans have filled the box.
The city has run out of land and the new citizens are automatically specialists. Don't leave them as elvii unless needed. There's a cap of max 2 lux per citizen, the rest is wasted...

I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones I can think of now.

 

[Andu Indorin]

And specialists are only available once a city reaches size 5.

In terms of tax collectors and scientists, it's important to keep an eye on the city resources part of the city screen; sometimes you can lower your income or science rate if you employ a specialist instead of working a square with trade. ...

 

[funxus]

Elvis produces 2 luxuries, the scientist produces 3 beakers and the tax collector produces 3 coins. All of these are affected by improvements in the city (Marketplace, library...) and wonders (such as Isaac Newton's and Cope's). So if you have a library in the city, but no marketplace, you'll get more for the scientist than for the tax collector. Also, with a market place and a bank, each Elvis produces totally 4 luxuries, which means that each Elvis has double effect than otherwise.

 

[Specialist290]

EDIT: Nevermind. (This seems to happen a lot...)

 

[ElephantU]

A "technical" mod to AI's statement: Elvis specialist is available to any size city; Taxman and Scientist are only available between size 5 and 36, above which only Elvis are available. There is a trick called "Xinning" where you set all citizens to Scientists or Taxmen, depleting the Food Box for one turn, then set enough workers to put just one food back in the box the next turn. The turn afterwards you can reset all to taxes or science: even a large deficit will only "use up" just that one food.

Specialists are "forced" when your city size goes above the workable land in your city radius (usually size 20, unless you have one or more other cities in your radius, or unexplored tiles). You can reset workers between the tiles they work, or take them off (which sets them automatically to Elvis). Play with it a bit in a city of size 5+ to see what you want to maximize: happiness, taxes, research, or food and production. This is another one of those "each game has different priorities" issues.

 

[Andu Indorin]

There is a trick called "Xinning" where you set all citizens to Scientists or Taxmen, depleting the Food Box for one turn, then set enough workers to put just one food back in the box the next turn. The turn afterwards you can reset all to taxes or science: even a large deficit will only "use up" just that one food.

Never heard of this one ... and it strikes me as a somewhat "problematic" practice. ...

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Never heard of this one ... and it strikes me as a somewhat "problematic" practice. ...

Maybe it won't be so problematic if you consider it "payback" for the fact that even if you only need one sheaf, you must first fill the food box (and any additional surpus is wasted) before you can grow the following turn.

 

[ElephantU]

The trick is not about growing, it is about setting all citizens to Scientists for one turn, running an enormous food deficit which only depletes the one sheaf in the box, then resetting enough workers the next turn to restore the one surplus food. Cycling back and forth stagnates the growth of the city but permits much greater research (or taxes, for that matter). Xin Yu at Apolyton discovered it a while back, hence the name "Xinning" (rhymes with "sinning"...). It is not without penalty, but I also consider it a trick I don't feel comfortable using.

As to filling the food box and wasting surplus, the same is true of the beaker box and the production box - better planning/management makes things more efficient, but often the extra work of adjusting things just takes too long and kills the fun of the game. Now an OCC game, on the other hand...

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I know what it is and how it works, I was just trying to come up with a rationalization that might have made it less unseemly to AI. I will occasionally use mass specialists to get through a particular goal (e.g., completing a key tech), but usually not to the point of an empty food box. For me, it's not so much a matter of being uncomfortable with it philosophically, its just the combination of the stagnant growth and the tedious management make it not seem worth the trouble.

 

[la fayette]

Never heard of this one ... and it strikes me as a somewhat "problematic" practice. ...

Too bad you never met XinYu, who is one of the very best civ2 players of all times. He was also the first one who demonstrated the power of 2 continents trading and also the one who designed a system to put many engineers at work on the same tile (and he also managed to finish at least 2 scenarios before me ).

 

[Andu Indorin]

Reading thru the posts, I have picked up some valuable information. Reading the D-succession games, I noticed that specialists are created very early. Can you give me some guidence on when and where in my cities I should build specialists.

Ah, yes ... getting back to the original question. With the clarification provided by ElephantU, in the D+ succession games, Elvis's are used very early on to avoid the civil disorder/unhappiness that is endemic at the Deity plus settings. Essentially, every city founded after your first starts in a state of unhappiness (at least until you have HG or Mike's Chapel), usually requiring one of two options: start immediately with a Elvis and grow slow while building temple; or, start with the city in disorder to fill food box while sacrificing production, and then have the second citizen as an Elvis to "counteract" the unhappiness in the city. Of these, I usually prefer the second option because it will often result in the completion of a temple quicker than the first method.

(One reason why I do not consider Elvis's as specialists is that they are available from the beginning, while Tax Collectors and Scientists/Einsteins are only available once a city reaches size 5. I tend to view Elvis's as the "unemployed" who are kept "quiet" through the liberal application of beer and wine. )

 

[Andu Indorin]

I know what it is and how it works, I was just trying to come up with a rationalization that might have made it less unseemly to AI. I will occasionally use mass specialists to get through a particular goal (e.g., completing a key tech), but usually not to the point of an empty food box. For me, it's not so much a matter of being uncomfortable with it philosophically, its just the combination of the stagnant growth and the tedious management make it not seem worth the trouble.

Yeah, when I think about it, it would seem to require a tedious amount of management in any but the smallest empire.

 

[ElephantU]

(...I tend to view Elvis's as the "unemployed" who are kept "quiet" through the liberal application of beer and wine. )

a classic quote...

 

[Specialist290]

I think I'll put that in my sig, if Andu doesn't mind.

 

[Andu Indorin]

a classic quote...

It all started in an old Succession Game as the Germans that soon became a "beerfest." By the time it was over, we had (among other things) Drunkgoons, Kegvalry, Drunklomats, Lagerclads, Beersaders (aka the Crusaders of St. Pauli Girl), a "Drunk nach Osten", and of course, the Hanging Biergartens.

I think I'll put that in my sig, if Andu doesn't mind.

Why not?

 

[ElephantU]

...sort of redefines the meaning of "Womens Suffrage"....