Spell Feedback and Review(long)

[Blackmantle]

Are you mad ? It will break the game like never.

Only if the Stackbusters stay as strong as they are. A toned down Tsunami (with a cap like around 50% instead of 75%) whould by no means break the game. Stack busters need to be toned down in max effectiveness / damage cap. Depending on requirements and Tier. So they are not bad or overpowered by definition but by implementation.


Also Tsunami is worse with existing caps than maelstorm. By far. And mages fight weaker than Cultist usually.
So your acessment is wrong. Just wrong.
Such game breakers allready exist just at that place. And worse than an allready existing tsunami... So no real danger here which is not allready there.

 

[smusebaer]

OK my 5 cent in green.

Air
Mana effect- Boosts affinity
1. Fair Winds (4)- effect is to limitedfly spell for land units (Ignores Movement penalties, duration one round)
2. Maelstrom (6)- love the spell but it is a balance issue
3. Summon Air Elemental (8)- I like the 4 elemental speheres havign their tier 3 summons, but okay with removing the rest

Body
Mana Effect- Boosts heal rate in borders
1. Haste (9)- about perfect
2. Regeneration (5)- its okay, nothing great
3. Graft Flesh (7)- fun spell, not sure about game balance but i will probably never remove it since its kinda a hallmark of our weird design

Chaos
Mana Effect- Chance to cause mutation
1. Dance of Blades (2)- weak, definitly need a boost here add an retreat changse, and it´s ok. But it would be cool, if the weaponpromotion gets a monster (Dancing weapon)
2. Mutation (8)- Mutation is to powerful to be an adept spell, its about the perfect definition of a tier2 spell
3. Summon Pit Beast (6)- love the spell but your right that we could afford to have the slot be a non-summon (if we could come up with a cool chaos 3 spell i would move this to an entropy 2 spell) "Chaos spawn" kills the weekest creature in a stack (or in all stacks, even your own, within a radius) and gives a Chaos spawn creature to the caster

Death
Mana Effect- Boosts affinity
1. Raise Skeleton (9)- just about perfect
2. Summon Spectre (8)- very appropriate
3. Lichdom and Summon Wraith (9)- between the 2 this sphere works out nicely

Earth
Mana Effect- Increases mineral discovery chances
1. Wall of Stone (4)- decent but not very interesting
2. Stoneskin (4)- same as above, kinda dull how about terraforming at this point, level Mountains, raise hills..
3. Summon Earth Elemental (8)- good elemental summon

Enchantment- This sphere is about perfect for what it is. Im okay with some spehres being good for a single caster getting experienced in it and this should be the model for that. Though as you mention it shouldnt exist in all spheres.
Mana effect- +1 happy
1. Enchanted Blade (10)
2. Flaming Arrows (8)
3. Spellstaff (8)

Entropy- Very weak sphere, something needs to be done. Maybe rust needs to move to rank 1, Summon Pit Beast to rank 2, and a very improved enervation/wither combo at tier 3?
Mana Effect- Decreases enemy heal rate in your lands
1. Wither (2) I think an "blase" effekt like in sun would fit in perfektly, perhaps you can destroy Forest with wither, or just wither plains to desert
2. Rust (6)
3. Enervation (1)

Fire- About perfect, i wouldnt want to touch it
Mana Effect- Boosts Affinity
1. Blaze (6)
2. Fireball (10)
3. Summon Fire Elemental (8)

Law- Boring sphere. Maybe Einherjar goes down to rnak 2, valor goes to rank 3 (and never expires) and we spice up the rank1 a bit?
Mana Effect- reduces maintenance
1. Loyalty (4)- such a limited effecthow about ending revolutions with loyality
2. Valor (7)- good spell but dull
3. Summon Hosts of the Einherjar (6)- Id like to get this to be a rank 2 spell

Life
Mana Effect- increases health
1. Sanctify (4)- boring spell perhaps sanctified areas damage undead. And Entropie could dispell sanctify. and if sanctified areas don´t turn into hell train, it would remove a lot of mikromanagement
2. Destroy Undead (3)- Way to limited effect, this may be a good place for a level 2 summon?Send me an angel. Perhaps this angel could selfdestrukt to damage undead
3. Ressurection (4)- Maybe allowing unlimited ressurections isn't such a bad idea?No, that would be great

Metamagic- I like this sphere
Mana Effect- none, instead the mana effect (reduces enemy resistances, increases spell damage) is applied to units that know the sphere, not just to those in the owners empire
1. Floating Eyeas field improvments, can be pillaged, no upkeep (perhaps outside your culture borders) as scouting sentrys would this be great. Again less mirkromanagement (for Hawk-scouting)
2. Dispel Magic
3. Summon DjinnI think a city protecting spell against Magic would fit perfekt for metamagic

Mind- A decent sphere but I like your idea to switch charm person and inspiration
Mana Effect- increases research rate
1. Charm Person (4)- I like the spell but it is overpowered, it will be better as a rank 2 spell
2. Inspiration (6)- Decent but boring, it will do much better as a rank 1 spell
3. Domination (8)- A good spell

Nature- I think this spell is pretty good and I think treetop defense is a lot better now that it instantly fortifies the stack
Mana Effect- None (boosts a lot of non-summon creatures)
1. Treetop Defense (6)summon animal(Wolf?) would be cool
2. Poisoned Blade (7)
3. Vitalize (9)

Shadow
Mana Effect- Boosts affinity
1. Blur (4)- A pretty weak spellhow about hide, a spell that hides a stack, as long it doesn´t move
2. Shadowwalk (6)- Maybe boost this into a rank 3 spell?
3. Summon Mistform (6)- A good spell, but it would be a good candidate for a level 2 summon.

Spirit
Mana Effect- increases GPP growth
1. Courage (4)- limited effectperhaps the courage promotion grant a little bonus to the stack, if the unit dies in combat
2. Hope (6)- okay, but a bit boring
3. Trust (7)- I like this spell, but it may need something to improve it.I like the idea that trust reduce the happy penalty from war

Sun
Mana Effect- Boosts Affinity
1. Scorch (6)- decent spellbut sun is something good. How about warmth: melts tundra to plains. Than can wither do the job turning plains into deserts
2. Blinding Light (7)- I could move this to rank 3, increase the range and reduce the resistance chance. A "Flash" spell could be created to keep the current (or a bit weaker) form for the ratha and such to use.
3. Summon Aurelis (7)- This could be weakened and moved to rank 2

Water
Mana Effect- Boosts Affinity
1. Spring (10)
2. Water Walking (8)- this cant ever effect the entire stack because you would make ships obsolete and remove the strategic effect of water from the game a second spell would be great. Perhaps an improvment for Water titels. Or defenciv improvements( Reef?) for water titels, witch cause damage, when pillaged or damages ships passing through (and are first to pillage), or perhaps creating rivers would be cool. but something boosting ships would be nice too
3. Summon Water Elemental (4)- I like the spell, but it is to weak[/QUOTE]

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

Alright, I'll hop on the bandwagon....

Air
Mana effect- Boosts affinity
1. Fair Winds (4)- effect is to limited It's pretty useless. The "fleet of foot" idea that granted a small withdrawal chance sounds good, but maybe it should be 10%? 20% seems a bit much for a first-tier spell.
2. Maelstrom (6)- love the spell but it is a balance issue
3. Summon Air Elemental (8)- I like the 4 elemental speheres havign their tier 3 summons, but okay with removing the rest

BodyGreat as is
Mana Effect- Boosts heal rate in borders
1. Haste (9)- about perfect
2. Regeneration (5)- its okay, nothing great
3. Graft Flesh (7)- fun spell, not sure about game balance but i will probably never remove it since its kinda a hallmark of our weird design

Chaos
Mana Effect- Chance to cause mutation
1. Dance of Blades (2)- weak, definitly need a boost here
2. Mutation (8)- Mutation is to powerful to be an adept spell, its about the perfect definition of a tier2 spell
3. Summon Pit Beast (6)- love the spell but your right that we could afford to have the slot be a non-summon (if we could come up with a cool chaos 3 spell i would move this to an entropy 2 spell)Move this for a damage spell with random effects and random damage. On the balance, really good, but sometimes...it won't pan out. Basically, the principle behind Mutation applied to an offensive spell.

DeathNeeds no help.
Mana Effect- Boosts affinity
1. Raise Skeleton (9)- just about perfect
2. Summon Spectre (8)- very appropriate
3. Lichdom and Summon Wraith (9)- between the 2 this sphere works out nicely

Earth
Mana Effect- Increases mineral discovery chances
1. Wall of Stone (4)- decent but not very interesting
2. Stoneskin (4)- same as above, kinda dullMove this down, perhaps make it apply defensive strength instead, with a slight boost to magic resistance?
3. Summon Earth Elemental (8)- good elemental summon

Enchantment- This sphere is about perfect for what it is. Im okay with some spehres being good for a single caster getting experienced in it and this should be the model for that. Though as you mention it shouldnt exist in all spheres.
Mana effect- +1 happy
1. Enchanted Blade (10)
2. Flaming Arrows (8)
3. Spellstaff (8)

Entropy- Very weak sphere, something needs to be done. Maybe rust needs to move to rank 1, Summon Pit Beast to rank 2, and a very improved enervation/wither combo at tier 3?That sounds good to me.
Mana Effect- Decreases enemy heal rate in your lands
1. Wither (2)
2. Rust (6)
3. Enervation (1)

Fire- About perfect, i wouldnt want to touch it
Mana Effect- Boosts Affinity
1. Blaze (6)
2. Fireball (10)
3. Summon Fire Elemental (8)

Law- Boring sphere. Maybe Einherjar goes down to rnak 2, valor goes to rank 3 (and never expires) and we spice up the rank1 a bit?
Mana Effect- reduces maintenance
1. Loyalty (4)- such a limited effectPerhaps it lasts a while and also applies a small crime reduction if the unit is stationed in the city(less corruption). Law is kinda a lost cause when it comes to being exciting, but as long as it's good, it's good.
2. Valor (7)- good spell but dull
3. Summon Hosts of the Einherjar (6)- Id like to get this to be a rank 2 spell

Life
Mana Effect- increases health
1. Sanctify (4)- boring spellBoring, but necessary, unless you have more ideas for letting us stop Armagedeon.
2. Destroy Undead (3)- Way to limited effect, this may be a good place for a level 2 summon?Some sort of creature tied to Sucellos, perhaps? It is his sphere, after all.
3. Ressurection (4)- Maybe allowing unlimited ressurections isn't such a bad idea?

Metamagic- I like this sphere
Mana Effect- none, instead the mana effect (reduces enemy resistances, increases spell damage) is applied to units that know the sphere, not just to those in the owners empire
1. Floating Eye
2. Dispel Magic
3. Summon Djinn

Mind- A decent sphere but I like your idea to switch charm person and inspiration
Mana Effect- increases research rate
1. Charm Person (4)- I like the spell but it is overpowered, it will be better as a rank 2 spell
2. Inspiration (6)- Decent but boring, it will do much better as a rank 1 spell
3. Domination (8)- A good spell

Nature- I think this spell is pretty good and I think treetop defense is a lot better now that it instantly fortifies the stack
Mana Effect- None (boosts a lot of non-summon creatures)
1. Treetop Defense (6)
2. Poisoned Blade (7)
3. Vitalize (9)

Shadow
Mana Effect- Boosts affinity
1. Blur (4)- A pretty weak spellMaybe bestow another small benefit? It's a decent spell to have along against archers, especially...the elven hero whose name I can't remember.
2. Shadowwalk (6)- Maybe boost this into a rank 3 spell?
3. Summon Mistform (6)- A good spell, but it would be a good candidate for a level 2 summon.Flipping these seems like a good idea.

Spirit
Mana Effect- increases GPP growth
1. Courage (4)- limited effect
2. Hope (6)- okay, but a bit boring
3. Trust (7)- I like this spell, but it may need something to improve it.

Sun
Mana Effect- Boosts Affinity
1. Scorch (6)- decent spell
2. Blinding Light (7)- I could move this to rank 3, increase the range and reduce the resistance chance. A "Flash" spell could be created to keep the current (or a bit weaker) form for the ratha and such to use.
3. Summon Aurelis (7)- This could be weakened and moved to rank 2

Water
Mana Effect- Boosts Affinity
1. Spring (10)
2. Water Walking (8)- this cant ever effect the entire stack because you would make ships obsolete and remove the strategic effect of water from the game
3. Summon Water Elemental (4)- I like the spell, but it is to weak

 

[xienwolf]

Idea for Air Sphere:

Air 1 - Maelstrom. Lower the damage to ~15%, Limit 30%, and allow it to hit ALL units (including your own units, even the adept who cast it, and the tile it was cast from), make sure to flag it not to declare war though.

Air 2 - Creates a temporary building in a coastal city. Only effect of the building is that the game draws an automatic "Tradewinds" route across the water to connect every city in the world with this building (if the water regions are connectable). This route allows triple movement rate for all Naval units.

Air 3 - Keep the summon, it rules.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

You'd move Maelstrom down to level 1!? That seems like too much. The ability to create such a storm seems almost like it should still be level 3. (If I could think of a better level 2 spell I might move it there, since I'm thinking I'll have 2 level 3 spells for most spheres in my version)

A temporary (requires-caster) Tradewinds building could be a nice level 1 air spell, if nerfed a little from your version. It could grant the Fair Winds promotion on move plus grant one or two trade routes.

@ smusebaer: Scorch can already be used to improve Tundra and Snow.

Edit: oh. I guess I didn't remember correctly about scorch. I would have checked, but I'm not on my computer right now. Downloading the mod on a school PC just to check didn't seem like a good idea.

 

[MaxAstro]

Actually Scorch only improves Snow; you need Vitalize to do anything about Tundra.

 

[bonedog]

Courage - Useful when tackling Acheron, or when the AC gets high and the horsemen start wrecking havoc, but pretty useless otherwise (because not many units have Fear). How about adding a small combat bonus to the promotion to make it's benefit more applicable? Say +5 or +10%? Something less than the +20% of Enchanted Blade.

 

[xienwolf]

Yes, I'd move Maelstrom to level 1. Right now, most of the spells for an Adept are buffs or other minor effects, with a single summon spell. Why not also have a single direct damage spell? And if it hits your own units as well, and doesn't do TONS of damage, it seems balanced.

The point is to show the progression of taming such a wild element. First rank: Can make it manifest, but ABSOLUTELY no control --> Maelstrom. Second Ranks: Can make it manifest, and guide it --> Sea Routes. Third Rank: Can Manifest and completely control it --> Elemental.

And the routes are VERY different than just gaining Fair Winds. They are available to all Naval units (even your enemies), can be "picked up" in the middle of the ocean, and can eventually cover the entire world quite easily.

 

[Fafnir13]

Something just popped into my head whilst reading.

There's a good deal of mention of spells that create buildings like the enchanted forge and wall of stone. Looking at fantasy worlds, there a good number of examples of places that have enchanted walls, mystical libraries, and all sorts of nifty stuff. With the recent advent of spells/abilities that take several turns to cast, I think that the idea of permanent magical buildings could be done quit easily. For example, I'll use enchanted forge that seems most frequently mentioned. In addition to being able to enchant weapons on the field, a mage could spend something like 10-20 turns in the city creating the magic forge. For 10 turns, you could easily have your mages wander around and enchant your important troops, meaning it's not exactly game breaking. It is useful though as it frees up a mana node once your troop producing cities are all equipped. Just meta-magic it out for something else. It's also another promotion you don't have to worry about should you need to restock on mages. I can imagine other buildings, like a courthouse styled one for law, perhaps city walls for earth, or a research booster for mind. These would be rather potent once you start to get your empire thoroughly endowed with them, so it might be best if you don't gain access to them until later in the magic tree. Would add a bonus for early specialization at least.

Just my 2 cents I thought I'd throw in.

 

[Polycrates]

Re moving Tsunami from OO Divine II to Water II:

Are you mad ? It will break the game like never.

A level 2 mage is considerably harder to get than an OO cultist - tech, xp and money-wise. So if it's broken as a mage spell, it's considerably less so than it is currently. Anyway, what Blackmantle said.

To be honest though, I kinda think a Tsunami just seems a lot cooler and more apocalyptic as a level 3 spell - perhaps even powered up a bit and given a casting delay. There's no real reason a powered-down Water Elemental couldn't be a Level 2 summon.


And as a sidenote, I really like the new casting delay mechanic - it makes a spell seem that much more powerful, and could really balance out some of the spells that are stronger than their peers (maelstrom being a prime candidate).


EDIT: I really like that there's a Destroy Undead spell, though I agree it's far too weak and limited for a Level 2. Perhaps up the damage and extend its effect to demons as well?(and of course damaging all friendly undead and demons too) Might give my Sheiam something to fear!

 

[smusebaer]

Sun 1 melts snow... ok thats cool, but I think tundra ist nearly as useless as desert, so it would be no harm, to improve it with a low level spell.
And I realy would like to have an option to rise (an level) hills and mountains.

Also I think that that summons should be at every power level (1-3)
Or Summening could increase the number of permanent summenings. (2 Skeletons per adept with summoner)

And I realy like the idea, that mages could build a building in citys.

 

[Zhahz]

Magic seems incredibly powerful and it's easy to get lots of casting units. If you're going to beef up every magic school to be even more powerful then maybe there should be a national limit on adepts (too since a lot of tier 2 spells are powerful) and maybe other casting units.

I've read that the focus of FFH is single player and the AI doesn't seem to handle using magic very well, so beefing up magic even more heavily favors players.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Destroy undead is a good spell, it just needs to actually destroy the undead. Outright Killing every undead unit nearby might be too much, but it should definitely not have a damage cap at all.

 

[vali]

I actualy think that domination is slightly overpowered. In two games as arcane leaders, each time I got three or more units capable of casting domination, with metamagic and mind 3. In these two games, each time I was able to create armies of dominated units, and I lost the mind three promotion only once. The unit gained a level the very next turn, so I simply gave the promotion back.

I ended up with dozens of high level units, like beserkers, that I, a spellcasting nation, could never have researched for, priests from three different religions, adepts and special units, and a small army of lesser units that I used to guard captured cities and my mages. It got to the point where I stopped using units that attacked, and simply emptied citys dry of units with the spell and marched in. Between metamagic three and the arcane promotion, a mind three spellcaster can build an army out of the enemy.

Long story short, make domination a little more likely to fail.

 

[Grand Seeker]

Just want to recap some great idees:

Earth level 2:

how about terraforming at this point, level Mountains, raise hills..."

I would love this spell.

how about ending revolutions with loyality

Sounds like a very neat bonus.

1. Sanctify (4)- boring spell perhaps sanctified areas damage undead. And Entropie could dispell sanctify. and if sanctified areas don´t turn into hell train, it would remove a lot of mikromanagement

If 'sacrifice the weak' blocks access to all life-mana and all spellcaster using life-mana this would be great.

1. Floating Eyeas field improvments, can be pillaged, no upkeep (perhaps outside your culture borders) as scouting sentrys would this be great. Again less mirkromanagement (for Hawk-scouting)

As permanent, none-moveable unit this would be great. We then need some limitation on how many of these a 1st level mage can create, but 1 is to little. 4 per caster maybe?

I would also in connection with this spell propose a new promotion:

Diviniation
Requiers: metamagic
All summoned units gets +2 in sight...

1. Fair Winds (4)- effect is to limited

I for my part like fair-winds. Thematicly it fits perfectly for air and sailing.
If you find the effect to limited, boost it in strength. +2 in speed and 10% withdrawl chance on ofensive AND defensive.

Maybe you also could look deeper into the sea-part of the game entirely.
Maybe the spell seems limited because there is realy no versality in ships.
When you get the manowar, they rule, period. They are strongest, fastest and can carry more than enough units.

 

[smjjames]

Earth level 2:

Quote:
how about terraforming at this point, level Mountains, raise hills..."

I would love this spell.

Only problem though with this one is that if the AI is not taught well on the use of this spell, it's going to do things that were never meant to happen, like casting that on floodplains. Who in thier right mind destroys a powerful food tile, although it would be useful in arid maps where you have a large cluster of rivers and alot of floodplains. Still, if the AI is not drilled on the use of it, it's going to end up breaking things.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Actually, I don't think that creating a hill on floodplanes would remove the flood planes. Sure, logically it should, but Hills are a (pseudo) terrain while floodplanes are a feature. A "Floodhill" would be a very nice plot, with extra food and hammers. Not as good as a Vitalized Floodhill.

 

[Algeroth]

few thoughs:

It's seems that people can't appreciate the strenght of rust. This thing can, unless you're playing aganist Svaltfar, turn even battle into bloody victory. Unfortunetly, the other spells are good reason to leave this sphere alone.

Fair winds could give commerce to windmills.

Body sphere is good as it is now. Haste is...haste and regenaration is pimped version of march. Keep it as it is.

Changing Floating Eye to Third eye would fit more thematically.

Waterelementals needs another point of movment. Or they could push weak (relevant to their power) opponents from stack.

Mutation is good enough for OO, bring chaos marauders insteaded.

Destroy undead- remove cap, change to "winds of life" or something like that and give it minor healing effect.

Don't move mistforms to rank 2, unles you make AI able to defend aganist it.

And I haven't used the new treetop defense but it looks good on paper.

 

[Mithrus]

I'm sorry if this has been suggested, but I didn't read thru all those LONG posts...

For Earth1/Wall of Stone, perhaps have it also be castable outside a city to either make a tower, or upgrade a tower/citidel etc. This way, you could have insta-fortresses if you bring enuf adepts along, or have it take X number of turns to complete if 1 turn to too short (no more than 4 IMO tho).

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Actually, I don't think that creating a hill on floodplanes would remove the flood planes. Sure, logically it should, but Hills are a (pseudo) terrain while floodplanes are a feature. A "Floodhill" would be a very nice plot, with extra food and hammers. Not as good as a Vitalized Floodhill.

Khazad worldspell proves this right.