Jasperak
Chieftain
I am new here so don't screw with me. After several days of searching, I cannot find much info on splitting civilizations when conquering their capital. Any help would be appriciated. Thanks.
Splitting civilizations
- Thread starter Jasperak
- Start date
Sodak
Paha Sapa Papa
...but apparently not new enough to know people catch flak for some topics! 
There was a recent discussion here about this topic, and also over at Apolyton. Many suspicions about under what conditions it happens, but only two of them are definite and necessary:
1) There must be at least one color available for a new civ to be
2) The civ must lose its capitol for a split to occur
Other factors come into play, but what these are isn't clear. Some ideas that have been proven false by anecdotes:
1) The civ must lose its capitol to a civ lower on the power graph
2) The civ must lose its capitol to a civ higher on the power graph
3) The civ must have less than 1000g
And others. Look for the recent thread (a month ago?) for further discussion...
There was a recent discussion here about this topic, and also over at Apolyton. Many suspicions about under what conditions it happens, but only two of them are definite and necessary:
1) There must be at least one color available for a new civ to be
2) The civ must lose its capitol for a split to occur
Other factors come into play, but what these are isn't clear. Some ideas that have been proven false by anecdotes:
1) The civ must lose its capitol to a civ lower on the power graph
2) The civ must lose its capitol to a civ higher on the power graph
3) The civ must have less than 1000g
And others. Look for the recent thread (a month ago?) for further discussion...
Jasperak
Chieftain
Thanks to both of you, it seems that this one area seems to be one where the community cannot seem to find the answer, despite the testing.
I do know that in the game I am in, I cheated and created a barbarian unit to conquer the capital. There was an 11 city, governement was democracy, and it seemed that the cities that split where either by distance or corruption.
Leads to the question about corruption... and democracy...
A true challenge, what deity level, F that, I am trying to split a civ
I do know that in the game I am in, I cheated and created a barbarian unit to conquer the capital. There was an 11 city, governement was democracy, and it seemed that the cities that split where either by distance or corruption.
Leads to the question about corruption... and democracy...
A true challenge, what deity level, F that, I am trying to split a civ
Jasperak
Chieftain
BTW, screw the chieftain garbage.... I want to edit mine
Anybody play D&D?
Anybody play D&D?
Jasperak
Chieftain
Did another test with the second ranked (total score) capturing the third rank civ capital. No split.
Also tested with third rank civ capturing second rank civ capital. surprise, surprise, civilization split.
Seems that to split civ, conquering civ must be SMALLER
(total score, based on ranking on retire[sp?] screen)
I am not concerned about what happens afterword, just how to get civ to split.
I am surprised that it seems that none of us are hackers. Should be easy to crack the program and find out EXACTLY what the program uses to determine when a civ splits. inspecting registers, tacing program. What the heck, cannot even determine exact formula for predicting trade route benefits.
Sorry for the trolling.
Again, anybody play D&D?
PS. seems that after the split, max city distance /2 determines which cities split providing total population remains equal. second city 8, other six cities 1 or two, would mean that all but the city8 would become new civ. Somebody needs to test this.
At one point I thought it was corruption but since corruption is based on distance; I prefer to start formulas as simple as possible.
Also tested with third rank civ capturing second rank civ capital. surprise, surprise, civilization split.
Seems that to split civ, conquering civ must be SMALLER
(total score, based on ranking on retire[sp?] screen)I am not concerned about what happens afterword, just how to get civ to split.
I am surprised that it seems that none of us are hackers. Should be easy to crack the program and find out EXACTLY what the program uses to determine when a civ splits. inspecting registers, tacing program. What the heck, cannot even determine exact formula for predicting trade route benefits.
Sorry for the trolling.
Again, anybody play D&D?
PS. seems that after the split, max city distance /2 determines which cities split providing total population remains equal. second city 8, other six cities 1 or two, would mean that all but the city8 would become new civ. Somebody needs to test this.
At one point I thought it was corruption but since corruption is based on distance; I prefer to start formulas as simple as possible.
Jasperak
Chieftain
SunTzu>> No offense but I just had a third ranked civilization (greeks) capture a second ranked civilization capital (russians) (I was the first, Germans) and split the russian civ into two.
Jasperak
Chieftain
Double check me if I am wrong. Take any saved game. Use the cheats to enable any civ to conquer another civ's capital and if the attacking civ is smaller, the loser(larger) civ will split. No BS formulas. If smaller conquers a larger civ's capital, the loser civ splits.
I recall once splitting an enemy civ twice in one turn. It was in Africa on the world map, I nuked and took their capital, and they split. The core civ moved their capital nearby, and I still had some spies and partisans left over, so I did it again, and the core civ, which was still bigger than me, split a second time!
Huhuh, huhuh, that was cool!
Huhuh, huhuh, that was cool!
Sodak
Paha Sapa Papa
Powergraph position does not reliably predict a split! It may very well be the key factor when a smaller civ sacks a greater civ's capitol, but cannot be considered a rule. A significant but not complete condition, you could say.
My anecdote was a game in which the Mongols, far and away #1 on the powergraph, caused a split in the Spanish, who were somewhere around #4 at the time. There is clearly something more at play than just a lesser powergraph position.
My anecdote was a game in which the Mongols, far and away #1 on the powergraph, caused a split in the Spanish, who were somewhere around #4 at the time. There is clearly something more at play than just a lesser powergraph position.
allan
Cabrón
Can it only happen up to a certain date or advance? Like civs that restart?
It seems the only times I have successfully split a civ were in rare early conquests of their capital, up to perhaps the middle period (probably before conscription or industrialization). Most of the time I don't capture capitals until late game, and then it never happens. Usually in late game I am number one, but I have as number one in middle game (albeit this was when I was playing warlord or something) as the Persians split the Spanish (too!) who were probably number two.
I also think it may have to do with the number of cities the civ has when its capital is captured. I recall I captured the Aztec capital in midgame once, but they had only five cities (although in king level, they had some techs I didn't and were neck-in-neck tech-wise) and they didn't split. Their government managed to move, though--and when I captured their new capital they then had one city left so didn't split.
Has anyone managed to split a civ in late-game? I hate when I've gone all out to capture a capital of a huge fundy civ or something, hoping for a schism, and not getting one....
It seems the only times I have successfully split a civ were in rare early conquests of their capital, up to perhaps the middle period (probably before conscription or industrialization). Most of the time I don't capture capitals until late game, and then it never happens. Usually in late game I am number one, but I have as number one in middle game (albeit this was when I was playing warlord or something) as the Persians split the Spanish (too!) who were probably number two.
I also think it may have to do with the number of cities the civ has when its capital is captured. I recall I captured the Aztec capital in midgame once, but they had only five cities (although in king level, they had some techs I didn't and were neck-in-neck tech-wise) and they didn't split. Their government managed to move, though--and when I captured their new capital they then had one city left so didn't split.
Has anyone managed to split a civ in late-game? I hate when I've gone all out to capture a capital of a huge fundy civ or something, hoping for a schism, and not getting one....
Sodak
Paha Sapa Papa
My Mongol anecdote was a late game split. I don't recall the year, but everybody had marines and artillery and cruisers. Well, not everybody, but the most advanced civs did, anyway.
Jasperak
Chieftain
I do not know if it was said before but the civ to split must be either republic or democracy (demo i am not sure about though)
allan
Cabrón
No, I'm quite sure I've split either monarchies or despotisms before--VERY early game, before anyone had republic.
