*Spoiler1* Gotm23-Arabs Full World Map+All contacts+Middle Age

Originally posted by Hergrom
Around 500AD I had over 40 warriors. I hooked up the iron and immediately upgraded 22 swordsman.

Ooops. I meant 500BC, not AD. I did not employ the un-hook then hook-up strategy here. I simply had amassed the 40 odd warriors prior to hooking up my iron around 500BC. I did, however, delay hooking up the iron for this purpose.


Originally posted by Assaultor
Why not just have your desired warrior factory unhook by road? I don't think you would keep producing warrior in every city. And warrior only useful in the early stages and swordsman only worth using before AD.

And i wouldn't recommend swordsman rushing or even warrior rushing as late as 500 AD. From the speed of my game and my brother( we play separetely), by 500AD both of us has gotten Ansar and both enter golden age with mass amount of Ansar and musketman.


I agree, mostly. I think the above 500AD mistake explains most of this. But sometime having only 1 city as a warior pump is not fast enough. 1 city would take at least 40 turns, probably 80 turns to make 40 warriors, whereas my 8 cities were able to make those same 40 warriors in 10 to 15 turns.

Hergrom
 
swordsman_small.gif
[ptw] 1.21

Dear cracker,

Does the begetter of this scenario by any chance have two outgrowths on the top of his head, a black pointy tail and a slightly reddish complexion?

Anticlimaxes include:

:wallbash: Total number of huts found: 1, containing a conscript warrior who could, er, search for more huts. This was not really a surprise on the predator level…

No leader after many elite wins. (How many I can't say since the date of the new era is hazy in my memory. Probably around 20.)

Va via!!! My first war, with the Romans, cost four alliances against me. The fact that Rome completed the Great Library probably made them afford all those alliances. After that I learned my lesson and started signing ROPs. That’s when my roads got clogged with people from every other nation in the world. Being born in the middle of the pangea wasn’t only positive.

Pop-rushing granary in my second town was a poor decision. The town is situated on the desert square west and north of the flood plains. The absence of production on the irrigated flood plains forced me to make the city vary between size 4 and 6 in order to be effective as a settler factory. The extra discontent from pop-rushing forced me to use the luxury slider and I saw a lot of gold slip through my fingers. What irritates me the most about this thing is that it would probably have been better to simply use the capital Mecka as a settler factory.

A nasty popup of a barbarian camp delayed my ability to build chariots by killing two workers. Shortly after, a barbarian uprising delayed it even further.

So did any good things happened?

:p No cities lost and looking forward to Ansar Warrior - will they be the answer to my cries of frustration?

I might have learned a bit about playing on a pangea, which I rarely ever do.

Oh, and I built the Great Wall.

My game is simply too messy to be worthy of a detailed description. Reading the phone book would be equally exciting. But the map is exciting as usual. Two thumbs up for:
:thumbsup: the wise things said about Islam on the announcement page.
:thumbsup: the removal (practically) of Ivory as a luxury. Hopefully you will be able to get rid of it completely. The live war elephant is different - so cool!

My early exploration maps below show that I was mainly interested in finding huts (in vain) or places to settle. I think I got a tech and some gold for communications with the Indians later on though. I had the same experience of AI trade as MadScot: India went from one or two techs behind me to six ahead of me in just a turn or two. Edit: The MM-dates should of course be BC.
 
[ptw] Open

Notes for me just now maybe pictures later. I'm sure Cracker is bored of hearing what a great map this is, but it really is something different, great job.

I settled in place and then started on Myst, spouted a couple of scouts, a warrior and then went for Granary. I think that first decision was wrong and should have gone for Settler first to get the city near the flood plain going sooner. Subsequntly my time to begin the expansion was slower than I think it could have been.

From huts I popped a Settler but a long way from home, so I just settled it there. Although it was totally corrupt I build a temple and settlers and watched a little corrupt expansion in no-mans lands. Considering its essentially free for me the land added to the domination numbers is great.
I only found two huts? Where were they.

After my slow start I got the following at QSC 1000 BC
10 Cities, 1 Settler, 15 Warriors, 2 workers, 4 foreign workers, 3 spear, 1 archer, 1 scout, 3 temples score 247 2nd with Rome 282

What kept me in this game was tech trading as the middle man, my favorite was:

2850BC Three way trade, buy Masonry for 90GP from Persia, Buy Alph for Mas + 30GP from India, sell Alph back to Persia for 80GP.

So I got Masonry and Alphabet for 40GP.

or this one

1950BC Met spain, oh they have writing and have not met the others, heeeerrrreee we gooooo
For Roman contact get Writing, for Wheel get French contact. From france 10 for Myst. From Zulu 26 for myst, From Persia Egypt contact for Writing, Rome contact + 40, then 50 GP for other contacts. Sold Egypt contact for Spain for 30 GP. From india bunch of contact for 130GP. Only persia is even and they have 19gp left, everyone else is bankrupt and behind now.

The down side is that I basically had to check the dip screen for every civ every turn which is very boring. If you miss one turn you could miss out on the killer deal, like above where I noticed that Spain had writing and with that I could trade the world for contacts. If I didn't look every turn they would have traded it before I got it.

I also saw the Map Making tech jump, in 1275BC I was basically ahead in tech and everyone was bankrupt, next turn every other civ was ahead with MM. At the time I just assumed the AI did actually cheat this time, but now I realise that they just traded the tech for maps with each other.

By 1625BC I started to see a lot of BarBar activity, but only came close to having a city sacked once with a red-lined warrior. In 775BC the big barbarian uprisings occured, I happened to have a warrior in the mountains above one when it popped the massed horses. I can't claim to understand the logic of the uprising but it occured about midway between my core and my satelite city, which basically meant I never saw any of them. The warrior did see them spread out quite a lot so no harm came from that.

The next turn with a quick trade I joined the others in the middle ages. I continued to build warriors ready for the sword upgrade, and was in the process of sneaking the horses off Otto with a city expansion.
 
<Awaiting a PM Reply from cracker concerning the images, but I'll edit it when he approves/disapproves>>

Vanilla 1.29f Open

Opening moves:
Just as planned in the pre-game discussion, I moved the scout south then west. This reveraled the gold and goats to the SW, the floodplains nearby, and the desert on the other side of the mountains. Moved the worker north onto the goats(I won't get an immediate bonus from them, but I got a good view), showing me more goats to the Northeast. Finally, I decided to move the settler SE anyway, to the "nook" in the river, to give it the floodplain after one expansion. This was an excellent move, because of the wool on the other side of the river.

!!INSERT IMAGE #1 HERE!!

3950 BC: I settled on the "nook" of the river, and the single citizen worked the wool. Worker is going to build a road from the goats to the wool, giving four tiles next to the river with roads on them. I'll probably irrigate one and mine one of the plains, but I'm not going to be able to get anything extra by improving the wool just yet, so the next move will probably be to road & irrigate the floodplain. Started four-turn build of warrior in the capital. Set up tech research as follows:
1. Bronze Working
2. The Wheel
3. Warrior Code
4. Horseback Riding
5. Iron Working
6. Alphabet
7. Writing

Not sure what to go after once those get finished, but I'll decide after I meet some other civs. Upped research to max, BW will finish in 16 turns.

Scout moved one more tile West onto the hill, revealed olives over the mountains. My guess that the mountains were either thin or on the coast was wrong, apparently. But I'm two for three on my pre-game guesses so far.

3900 BC - Moved scout two more tiles West, revealing three wool on hills. Potential second city location?

3850 BC - Moved scout north one, west one, revealing more desert, more hills, and *gasp* a grassland!

3800 BC - Moved one more tile west, saw more grassland and what I thought were the russians(right clicking i found it was neoCarthage, the color fooled me).
Nothing I have is worth enough to get either Masonry or Alphabet, so I back off bronze working to 17 turns(was at 13) to start gaining gold and have some trade leverage.

3750 BC - Warrior done, start another. Goes south one tile. Scout goes west then northwest, not showing too much else, except that carthage has built one road connected to their capital. First settler will have to get out there fast to secure wool, and to get a potential monopoly.

3700 BC - Warrior south one more, revealing a lot more floodplains. Scout moves NW onto mountain, revealing large section of jungle.

3650 BC - Warrior south again, revealing desert and olives to west. Scout moves N one, revealing a mountain two turns north. Gonna go for it to get another view.

3600 BC - Warrior south, scout north. FRESH WATER!!!!! YAHOO!!!! And..umm...more olives to the east, another mountain near the scout.

3550 BC - Second warrior built, this one heads north. Other warrior south, scout north onto mountains, and a goody hut is revealed, as well as coastal grassland!

!!INSERT IMAGE #2 HERE!!

Trying diplomacy with Carthage again, masonry would be both techs, all 15 gold, plus 1 gpt, so basically a 35 gold equivalant. BW is 12 turns at current rate(80%), 9 at max, and 23 at 30%. I drop it to 15 turns again(at 60%) and start gaining 2 gpt.

3500 BC - Southern warrior moves SE onto hill, revealing large patch of desert. Northern warrior moves north again onto plains, revealing nothing. Scout heads for hut, water looks like another small lake.

3450 BC - Culture expands, doesn't reveal much else. Northern warrior grabs mountain at head of range, more olives in desert to west, and goats to east.
VILLAGE IS DESERTED!!! AARGH!
Southern warrior doesn't show much.
With culture expansion, I now have two tiles that are 2/2/2 in the borders(wool and goats). 2 turn warriors are now possible, with 5spt. Going to wait for pop 3 to start building settler, and continue warrior proliferation. In ten turns, I should have 7 warriors, bronze working complete, and 49 gold.
Scout continues moving along coast of lake/harbor(still can't tell which)

3400 BC - Fortify warrior in capital, otherwise unhappiness would probably ensue. Northern warrior moves again, one more olives revealed. Scout sees persian scout in the north, contact is made. No trades are possible, but I try carthage again and suddenly masonry is a lot cheaper. Alphabet is still a lot though, taking both techs and all my gold. Decide to wait until BW is finished. Scout moves again to show that water body is probably a lake. Southern warrior continues going SE, revealing lots of plains, mountains, and desert.

3350 BC - Yep, just a lake. Northern warrior goes due north, southern goes due south, showing a river. Going to follow it and see if I can find some floodplains.

3300 BC - Another warrior comes out, this one goes east. Northern warrior north, scout NE onto mountain, showing more hills. Southern warrior heads for river and sees spices, plains, and grassland along the river.

3250 BC - France, using a different color(i thought it was babylon at first, meaning rome would have been in the game, but not so.) I decide not to trade pottery for BW and 10 gold, as BW is only 2 turns away.
Masonry, however, is nicely affordable at both techs and 10 gold, but I still decide not to buy, considering it's a "less-important" tech to me - although the pyramids would be nice, I'm not going to try for it, considering I've got a nice settler factory showing up in the capital. Research at 100% results in a 2 gold loss but BW in one turn.
Scout goes N again, showing up more of the all-important grassland. Northern warrior north, more water showing up. Eastern warrior east onto mountains, spices and plains on other side. Southern warrior SW onto another mountain, showing *sigh* just more desert.
Looking at the histograph at this point, here's the scores:
France: 65
Persia: 61
Carthage: 61
Arabs: 55

Now why is France ahead? There's only one possibility: They've got a lux in their capital's radius. Seeing that their line on the score table is straight, they must have had it from turn one - meaning that there's a luxury under Paris. Worker is on the wool now, so my score should start to climb once I have a happy citizen. I'm thinking about changing to a settler as soon as the next warrior finishes - This would be at 5 turns to size 3 and 5 turns to build the settler.

3250 BC: Bronze Working finishes, use menu to switch over to spearman before warrior can complete, and bump down science. Best gaining strategy is 27 turns, so i set it all the way down to 10% and start building a treasury, getting 4 gpt.
Eastern warrior east, more olives and goats. Northern warrior heads NE towards water, see river delta on the other side, it's only a 3-tile lake. Scout north, see grassland, goats, silks, and a light-blue border to the left.
Southern warrior moves south, revealing a nice open area of plains, and the river looks like it's coming to an end.
Do another round of Diplo talks, France apparently got BW on the same turn. Masonry is still both techs + 10 gold, but i have 25 gold + 4 gpt so I take it. I also trade carthage both CB and Pottery for Alphabet. Going back to persia, I sap all their gold away(36 of it) for alphabet. Now at tech parity, and gold stands as follows:
Persia: 0
France: 20
Carthage: 10
Me: 51 + 4gpt

So I stand at tech parity with more gold than all the other known nations combined.

3150 BC - Eastern warrior east again, not much new.
Northern warrior heads NE towards the mini-lake, it is indeed the end of a river, which seems to flow through a jungle that has grassland beneath.
Scout moves W, revealing a large swath of desert occupied by a light blue civ. Spain shows up on the diplo screen. They have 9 gold and the same techs I have.
Southern warrior heads E towards the river.

3100 BC: Capital produces spearman, switch to settler. I fortify spear in capital and send warrior out to explore the black area to the west of the capital, to aid in second city positioning.
Eastern warrior moves north, showing grassland and water. I may place city at OCP distance that's NE, E, E, E from capital, giving immediate use of olives and spices, and grassland and goats within the one culture expansion radius.
Northern warrior and scout both move north. Southern warrior moves East again, revealing that the river(which is only 3 tiles long) empties into a 1-tile lake. Worker finishes wool connection, will start building road to spices next turn, which will be next to new city location.
Checking the F11 screen I see Thebes, Rome, and Delhi. This leaves two civs that are unsure. I'm second in land area, which means someone has a second city(and not one of the civs I know)
I have #1 economy @ 2 per capita, second best productivity with 14, but 8th in disease at 9%, which is wierd because I'm not working any disease-prone tiles. I agree in the notions that there should be a joint study on how F11 screen stats are calculated. I also see that Madrid is size 3 already, meaning they've had at least one 7-turn growth.

3050 BC - Western warrior goes NW then W, eastern warrior goes N revealing 3x1 lake that could perhaps be larger, although I doubt it. Northern warrior N again, revealing an off-grey border(maybe persia, not quite sure)
Scout N again, not much new, Southern warrior heads for mountain goats that are S, SE, shows desert goats in first move.
Worker starts road to spices, should have one road in place by the time the settler comes out, although because of the river he'll have to cross it first. I start making gains in the histograph because of new happy face(lead of other civs drops by one point.)

3000 BC - Western warrior west, nothing new.
Eastern warrior NE, lake curves around and appears to only be 4 or 5 tiles.
Northern warrior N again, it is indeed Persia's capital, which is settled along a 1-tile lake. Scout N again, open terrain ahead. Southern warrior moves onto mountain goats, more desert and plains revealed
(End of detailed unit movements)

Here's a pic of my entire viewable area at 3000 BC

!!INSERT IMAGE #3 HERE!!

Persia has Mysticism now, but refuses to trade it for anything. No one's gold has changed, and no one else has any new techs.
Ranked 6th in "Largest nation of the world" study.

2800 BC - Settler finished, begin 10 turn build of Temple. Will take 3 turns to get to destination.

2750 BC - Find southern coast, and France's land in the north.

2710 BC - Find northern coast near Perseopolis. France took histograph jump in 2800 BC, apparently 2nd city settled. I've still got 2 more turns until I can settle my second city.

2630 BC - Settle Second City! Work on 10-turn spearman, worker will road to Spices then to olives.
Looks like I'll need several cities to get wool monopoly.

2470 BC - Contact Zulu. Give my masonry for warrior code and all 35 of his Gold, putting me at 141 gold with +8 per turn. Everyone else already had WC apparently, but Persia is the clear tech leader, with Mysticism and The Wheel. I trade 2 gpt + 141 gold for the wheel. I take 20g from France, 10 from Carthage, and 9 from Spain, putting me down 102 gold + 2pt, overall 142. I STILL HAVEN'T SEEN A SINGLE BARB VILLAGE OR HUT, except for the deserted one I found with my scout early on.

2430 BC - Capital finishes Temple, start spearman, 2nd city changes to temple(10 turns to go).

2390 BC - I stand corrected on that Barb comment. Pictish warrior shows up about 17 turns from capital square. I move warrior into position to be on offensive when it comes in range.

2350 BC - Warrior wins with 2/3 HP left, no promotion. Northernmost warrior finds goody hut 2 turns from current position. Scout finds dyes and horses on NW coast.

2310 BC - I see Egypt's border. Also see barb village that spawned pictish warrior.

2270 BC - Pictish warrior shows up one tile from my worker. Start moving spearman from capital, but probably won't get there in time due to river. Warrior kills barb camp & gets 25 gold with 2/3 hp left(still no promotion). Other warrior pops hut and gets Mysticism! Would sell, but everyone's broke except Persians, who already have it, and Zulu are now 3 techs behind me with no gold.

2230 BC - Spearman takes out pictish threat near 2nd city, moves onto spices, worker goes back and gets ready to start roading again, spearman will fortify over worker until road is done, then in city.

2190 BC - Make contact with Egypt. They're 4 techs behind, but I get 10 gold for pottery. Despite tech disparity, they're top on histograph.
UPDATED HISTOGRAPH RANKINGS:
Egypt 111
France 105
Zulu 101
Arabs 92
Spain 89
Persia 88
Carth.. 85

Expecting another nice score boost once road gets finished on spices, having two happy citizens in each city, for 4 total, as opposed to 1 happy & 3 content right now.

Culture advisor tells us that all other civs are "impressed with" our culture. I started behind due to moving the initial settler, but right now have 70 culture, 56 from palace and 14 from temple in capital.

2110 BC - Temple finished in Madinah. Start 14-turn barracks build, this will be my main military city.

2070 BC - Capital builds second settler, also starts 14-turn barracks build. Order movement to SE, S, S, S position.

1950 BC - Ranked as wealthiest nation in the world. Make contact with india. Ranked 10th in land area now, but that will change over the next two turns, as both cities expand.

1830 BC - Disband a barb camp and get 25 gold. Have settled 3rd city, both capital and 2nd city have expanded to 3rd and 2nd culture levels, respectively. My area in the histograph nearly doubles, over the next few turns I expect to push into the top two or three in score(currently 5th).

1675 BC - Moved up two places in score already, only 7 points off the lead, and this is with a 17 point gain over 3 turns.

<<Continued in next post>>
 
<<Continuation of first post>>

1625 BC - Ottomans show up. Realise I need to explore east of the start position, as all exploration was north, south, and west. Buy Iron Working for 100 gold. I have iron west of the capital, switch cap to worker to connect it up. Persia has Writing, I sell ottoman contact for all 27 of their gold but can't get writing right now. France is more agreeable, and gives the technology to me for 16 gold + ottoman contact. I get 41 gold back by trading Carthage contact, France is now broke but I have writing so I can drain other treasuries by selling contacts. I get Roman contact from Ottomans, then 110 gold for writing, and the remaining 44 gold for Carthage contact. Trade Egypt contact to Spain for 20 gold. Rome is WAY behind. Get their 10 gold for Carthage contact again. Get all 16 indian gold for Carthage Contact. Grab 8 gold from Zulu for Carthage Contact.

Now, no other civ has any gold, I still have at least 3 contacts to sell with every civ, I'm on tech parity with one or two and ahead against most civs, and am 1 turn from HBR, with 275 gold at -3 gpt.

1600 BC - Go for Literature after HBR finishes. Capital finishes worker, starts granary, worker goes after Western Iron. No one has anything to trade against my huge lead in contacts & tech. I am now ahead of all civs in tech, with the completion of HBR putting me ahead of the Persians, who were the main science rival.

1475 BC - Another Histograph Check, now that all Civs are in view:
Rome 184
Ottomans 152
Egypt 149
Arabs 149
France 145
Zululand 137
India 131
Persia 120
neoCarthage 118
Spain 117

Carthage looks very weak on all points, as my circling warriors have discovered. They may become an easy early target. Looking at the culture graph, so far I'm the only one to have anything other than a Palace generating culture.

1250 BC - Capital gets granary, begins work on next settler(6 turns away, city is 1 turn from size 3)

1225 BC - I really should check the Diplo screens more often. Persia is 2 techs ahead again, having map making and literature. I get MM for World Map and 50 gold, and LITERATURE FOR 80 GOLD!?!?! I was 15 turns into a 40 turn research, but to have it that cheap surprised me. Get Egypt's world map for Map Making. Get Rome's world map + 3 gold for my world map and literature. Get india's WM + 8 gold for MM. Get Zulu WM for my WM + 50 Gold. France's world map is worthless. I get 29 gold for my WM from France. I get 29 gold for my WM from Carthage. I get WM and 4 gold for WM from ottomans. I swap WMs with Spain and Persia.

Both Persia and Carthage have 4 cities each, making them potential Pick-offs.

1175 BC - Connect Iron! All cities are building improvements or settlers now, so I'll wait to build the first swordsman.

975 BC - Get Philosophy from France for 70 gold.

950 BC - Grab Code of Laws for 140 gold + WM

900 BC - Get Math from Persia for WM + 120 gold.

775 BC - Got Polytheism from Ottomans for 160 gold + WM.

650 BC - I sell my WM to everyone and gain 4 unexplored squares + about 50 gold overall.

510 BC - France has Construction, but won't sell it, even for 323 Gold + 18 gpt.

490 BC - France gets GL.

430 BC - Rome gets Construction, sells to me for 390 Gold. I buy a roman worker for 30 gold.

290 BC - *Major amount of explicitives deleted* Lose Pyramids to Rome. Switch to Colosseum, losing 97 shields.

270 BC - Upgrade first of original warriors(barb hunters) to Swordsman. Haven't had one promotion from regular to veteran in 23 battles, and zero of 4 veteran battles resulted in promotions either.

70 BC - Break through to the middle ages with Currency. End up with only six cities, but I have Iron, horses, and two luxuries, including two spices which I'll probably trade off for Monarchy sometime soon.

Minimap at 70 BC
!!INSERT IMAGE #4 HERE!!

F11 Screen & Histograph Scores
!!INSERT IMAGE #5 HERE!!

Histograph
!!INSERT IMAGE #6 HERE!!

Area near my cities
!!INSERT IMAGE #7 HERE!!

Bump up Horseback Riding to 70%, 18 turns to go at +/- 0 gpt.
<<Umm...that last line was supposed to go somewhere near the top, but it hid at the bottom of my notepad document and I can't remember where it went.>>


Observations: Little or no promotions from battling barbarians(I think i earned one veteran from a regular the whole game)
Never experienced a barb uprising, I had warriors circling most of the time to keep them at bay.
The start position wasn't as bad as it seems :)
 
TreasureSurrender.gif
PTW 1.27f

This is only my third GOTM game (submitted one a long time ago, #17 I think, and gave up last month after falling a whole era behind in tech :cry: ). It's also my first QSC, which I think helped me since I paid a lot more attention to my opening moves, as I ended up with one of the best starts for a Monarch game I've ever had (I usually play on Regent).

The Conquest level helped out a lot with scouting. I sent out my two scouts, free spearman, and some warriors later, and quickly met up with every one of the civs singlehandedly. Oddly enough, the paths I initially chose to scout in only led me to find Persia and Spain in the first 1000 years! I somehow managed to weave my way inbetween the civs. (Sorry, I forgot to save a picture.) But it all balanced out, and I soon had a "contact monopoly" where only I knew everyone. Unfortunately, no one had anything interesting to trade, not even money, as I was also top in tech, so I held on as long as I could and squeezed out gold and world maps for my contacts, giving me the whole world map fairly quickly.

I got to Literature first, and managed to build the Great Library, which kept me afloat in techs well into the Middle Ages (I normally fall behind quickly in techs in all games, a problem I have yet to solve.) It was my only Ancient Age wonder.

The barbarians uprised before the era turned, and a few of my outlying cities were undefended and thus were sacked several times. Thankfully by this point the other civs had expanded near me, so they took care of the majority of the barbarians. I lost quite a bit of gold and production though. :mad:

I started no wars, and manged to expand enough to get the southern horses and end up the largest civ at the end of the Ancient age. I normally HATE playing games with Persia because Xerxes is so aggressive, and I was really surprised to find him my friend this game. (More details later in Spoiler 2.)

I'm surprised that no one noticed (unless I missed it) that all the deserts around our starting location had base 2 shields! I was surprised as well, and didn't notice until later in the game. It gave my Flood Plain cities a real boost in production. I really like all the Olives and Goats present, they really allow for substantial desert cities.
 
Open, 1.29b2(Macintosh).

My Arabs' exploration paths during the Ancient era:
(should animate once image fully loads)

nabooGOTM23.explore.gif


I kept looking for Rome because I had this idea that they might be the "Big Civ" in the game, a la Roman Empire. As luck would have it they were the LAST civ I had contact with, and the only one I didn't meet directly.

When I finally did see their territory, it seemed as if my premonition had come true! Their starting area reminded me of Vikings in GOMT22. A semi-detached well-shaped landmass which enabled (forced?) them to settle well with a strong core (center city and well-shaped ring). Protection from competitive settlement. And, they sure had a lot more shield potential than Arabs!

This game I tried to be diligent about monitoring the tech scene. I did pretty well and kept near the leaders for most of the Ancient era. I did lose discipline once I began warring, though. I wish there were some kind of "trade board" that would give all of the potential trade info for all civs at a glance, instead of running from civ to civ every turn asking "whaddya got"? and playing 20-questions with the advisor. Is this what we pay our advisors for? :rolleyes:

I thought I'd try playing again with the "pet civ" approach I took in 5-4. Pick a civ, hit them early, extract tech, ride out peace, hit them again, extract tech.... rinse...repeat.

It looked like Ottomans would be my pet civ this time. They'd settled Uskudar near the horses. I figured I'd get horses and a pre-built city:

nabooGOTM23.uskhorse.jpg


As it turned out, Uskudar dropped to pop 1 right as I got my troops in position and so it was auto-razed :mad:

Ah well, at least I did get some tech and kept some land open for my (late) expansion efforts.

I lost an escorted settler heading towards those horses, from barbarian attack.

As the end of the Ancient era approached the big question was what to do about Rome? They did look to be the giant in the game. They'd spilled past their original peninsula and were starting to fill the void between us and Ottomans.

NabooGotm23.ancientend.jpg


Might I be able to keep a Big Dog as a pet? These were very different Romans than in 5-4!! Stay tuned for spoiler2 and "Return of the Pet Civ?"
 
PTW 1.27 Open class

This is my first GOTM, as well as my first post to CFC – so hello to everyone! I’m very excited to be participating in this. It is being a very different style of play for me – in my usual games I will often try something out just to see what happens, then reload if I don’t like it, so I’ve had to be much more disciplined in my play. Not being able to reload at will feels like an itch I can’t scratch.

I started by moving my settler one tile SE, and began research on the Wheel. Makkah started out producing a warrior, a second scout, granary, then finally a settler. My first scout went south, then east and met the Ottomans in 3500. My second scout went straight north and met the Persians in 3300, trading Ceremonial Burial for Bronze Working. Heading west from there, he found his first hut and got a settler, who for the next three hundred years warily made her way closer to my capital before founding what would be my third city.

I meant to use my scouts to thoroughly look around my immediate area at first, but they both ran off looking for huts to pop and other civs to meet. All in all they managed to find 6 huts, which gave me the following: the above mentioned settler, warrior, warrior, Pottery, Warrior Code, 25gp. My second scout tracked a long counter-clockwise path through the entire western portion of the continent, meeting most of the civs in those parts.

2900 – Pliny lists the Arabs as the 8th largest nation in the world, with the Zulu as number 1 (I still had only 1 city at this point).
2800 – Meet the Carthaginians and trade the Wheel + 13gp for Alphabet.
2710 – Meet the French.
2630 – I finally build my second city on the lake to the south of Makkah. I also have my eyes on the horses over the mountain range to the east, but in 2070 the Ottomans settle next to them. I eventually send a settler to the SE to settle near the next closest source of horses. I’ve now got a looong road to build back to my core cities – oh to be an industrious civ with those fast workers!
1870 – Herodotus lists the most powerful nations: Rome, Egypt, Zululand, France, Ottomans, Arabia, Persia, Carthage.
1790 – Meet the Zulu while slogging through the jungles. Also trade the Wheel + 36gp to Ottomans for Iron Working.
1675 – Meet Egypt.
1575 – Trade contact with Ottomans to Carthage for contact with Spain. Spain looks to be rather weak.
1200 – Meet Rome.
1050 – India contacts me, trades Mysticism for Horseback Riding. This is now all nine other civs.

In the meantime, I am building a lot of infrastructure, at the expense of the troops I will soon be needing. This will prove costly later, but that is for the next age….

I initially maxed my science in a push for Literature and the Great Library. I’m the first to Lit, but I hold off selling it to anyone else – longer than I should as someone else researches it and sells it to most of the other civs before I do…. I started a pre-build of the Pyramids in Makkah, then switched to the GL, which I get in 480BC – I feel this may well be my only wonder for awhile.

The next turn – 470BC – I get four techs from the GL, and this pushes me into the Middle Ages. Ancient Times seemed to go by very quickly in this game – I’m usually faster in building up a conquering force, but it seemed that I just didn’t have the time. I have no real army to speak of, and haven’t gone to war with anyone. However, just as the age ends, Rome contacts me and demands Polytheism. I refuse, and they declare war. It’s going to be a most interesting time to come. Here is the World Ranking at the start of the MA:

Rome 383
Egypt 333
Zululand 295
France 291
Arabia 280
Ottomans 277
India 268
Carthage 248
Persia 237
Spain 187

This is really being a lot of fun – my thanks to the gotm crew for a great map!
 
GOTM23

*Met Carthage, Persia, and Ottomans early; traded/purchased several techs.

*Makka lost out on the GL, switched to GP, completed in 430 BC.

*Barbarian uprising devastates Damascus to the South (350 BC).

*Arabia DoW Ottomans in 350 BC, peace signed (received 3 techs in deal) in 460 AD after capturing five cities;

Moderator Action: Everything in this post that exceeds the End of the Ancient Age is clearly not allowed as a part of this discussion, and leads me to a minor fist shaking event in shear frustration because the intent is so clearly spelled out in the first post of this thread and by example in almost every one of teh games for the past eight months. - cracker
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Cracker, my apologies. Please see my email.

Mini-map @ 390 BC
mini_390BC.jpg
 
Originally posted by Yoshimune
I'm surprised that no one noticed (unless I missed it) that all the deserts around our starting location had base 2 shields! I was surprised as well, and didn't notice until later in the game.

I certainly didn't notice this. I will check right now, of course, and will kick myself.

But I can't see Cracker modifying a basic terrain feature and not telling us. It's one thing to have 'new' food bonuses, like goats etc., which encourage checking the terrain. But 2 shields from desert is weird.

Are you sure you weren't in a Golden Age or something when you saw that?
 
Originally posted by MadScot


I certainly didn't notice this. I will check right now, of course, and will kick myself.

But I can't see Cracker modifying a basic terrain feature and not telling us. It's one thing to have 'new' food bonuses, like goats etc., which encourage checking the terrain. But 2 shields from desert is weird.

Are you sure you weren't in a Golden Age or something when you saw that?

Oops. I went back and checked a few of my save games and the deserts were normal. Maybe I was in a Golden Age, though that seems weird that a Golden Age would alter the Terrain Info box. I know I saw two shields! I swear I'm not crazy! :crazyeye:

I'll take a time-out in the loony bin and come back with some facts in Spoiler 2. :)
 
The terrain info box shows you what the tile will produce for your civ, including any bonuses (such as GA, or commercial bonus for republic/democracy, or harbour bonus) and decrements (such as despotism penalty)

That's sometimes useful - you see what you get - and that stops people saying "the terrain info says 3 food but I only get 2" when in despotism - otherwise we;d have a thread a week in GD like that :))

But it's inconvenient when deciding what to improve in despotism. For example, a flood plain by a river is 3 food, 1 gold. A grassland is 2 food, 1 gold. But in despotism, both say 2 food, 1 gold in the terrain info box. It actually is good to irrigate the flood plain (since you gain a food, even in despotism) but pointless to irrigate the grassland. The tewrrain info box gives no guidance about that at all.

If there was a indication of the base value AND the adjusted value that would be nice. Flood plan might say "2 (3) food", while grassland would just say "2 food". Too late to change it now, though.

I'm glad I don't have to kick myself for missing a bunch of extra shields. :)
 
Dojoboy, this is a pretty impressive return to the GOTM on your part. I assume you're playing for domination. If so, what is your plan for getting there?
 
Originally posted by Txurce
Dojoboy, this is a pretty impressive return to the GOTM on your part. I assume you're playing for domination. If so, what is your plan for getting there?

Excuse me while I pull my head out of the ground, for violating the *spoiler* thread guidelines. :blush:

My plan is to establish 6 - 8 cities, build barracks, then expand through conquest as far as my resources allow. I figure one of two things will happen, (1) either I'd route the slumbering AIs, or (2) I'd be forced to build some infrastructure. I have a feeling #2 will become reality. I'm still adjusting to 1.29s AI tech pace. If so, I plan to engage in some 'real politik' w/ various AI civs and systematically exterminate one civ at a time until 'domination' limit is obtained.

I'm a little gun-shy atm, so excuse the brevity of my reply. Never had to worry about *spoilers* in the olden' days. ;)
 
(I will repost this account later- I was recreating it from memory based on the playback, but I found a save file which shows I got a detail or two wrong. I'll fix it and repost later).
 
"With the industrious trait, persia should have been able to deal with the jungle cluster but if you bought off Jerkses workers then that would have a crippling effect."

Cracker, I guess the luck of the draw can have something to do with it as well. Despite the industrious trait, and despite me NOT purchasing any of their workers, Persia was very underdeveloped and unexpanded in my game.

Egypt, on the other hand, expanded quite a bit...
 
Originally posted by dales

Then I got The Republic. I traded it around, picking up everything but Currency (which STILL no one knew). I revolted to switch to Monarchy, and checked my advisor to find if Rome did what I wanted. Yep... they took the Republic traded to them, and had gone into anarchy. Perfect. In 450AD the war began.

Very nice. In fact, quite diabolical. :satan: I've now learned two things so far in this GOTM.
 
Thanks. I don't know why I had never thought to do that before. I had gotten screwed in a game a while ago where I entered anarchy and then got attacked, starting my Golden Age while in the midst of a 6 turn anarchy. It ticked me off so much that I decided to turn the tables and do it to someone else, and Rome with the Pyramids and with no (other) threatening neighbors was in a position to be a major threat in this game.

Unless I took them down.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

Edit to add: I am not sure why the tech rate in my game is so slow. I have to guess it is the early warring, which I started by my early archer attack on the Ottomans. I think the Zulu also were battling with France, although neither seemed to be gaining much from it.
 
PTW 1.27 Open class

I don't normally post much since I mostly read these and see how much I still need to learn. But, either my early game has improved dramatically or the RNG gods are really smiling and I'm going to get killed later on when they start frowning.

Here are some highlights

Found 7 huts (with 2 scouts and some wandering warriors) - 50 gold, empty, horseback riding, 25 gold, mysticism, city right next door to madrid, warrior.

I've never gotten a city before - not a settler - an actual city. Lousy location but still made my evening.

I was in 2nd place to Rome when I left the ancient age. I'm thinking Cracker likes them - they are always huge for some reason.

I've been in the game on tech the whole time and trading heavily the whole time. This is easily my biggest trading game yet. My trades got me 7 workers so far, mostly for techs and a little gold here and there. So my infrastructure is great (barbs damaged some but oh well). This has also really slowed the others down.

Love this map - its horrible, its ugly but it makes you think long and hard about where to put things. I prefer "rough" worlds - young and harsh on the assumption the AI can't deal with them as well. (not sure if that is true or not).

Very peacful so far although that may end soon.

I'm not good at noticing easter eggs - too busy with the trees to notice the forest. I do have one question - this is a screenshot of me establishing an embassy with India in 1125 BC (last civ I met). Can someone explain why India is building a settler? By my count they won't be at size 3 until something like 9 turns after the settler would be done? Obviously I'm missing something.

Sorry for the size of this thing, I shunk it as much as I could and still get as much info as possible in the shot.

ssharlow
 

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Originally posted by dales
No one had the Great Library yet either, and I entertained hopes of getting a leader and building it. Although in retrospect, I was already a tech leader, so why would I need it?

It's equally valuable to deny that benefit to your opponents. Though I should talk -- I'm often bereft of Wonders in many of my games :rolleyes: Also the g-lib generates a lot of culture, which can be important in a domination game to get the Flip Gods on your side.


Once again, my expectations for the war were overly optimistic. I suffered more losses than I anticipated due to the strong Legionaries. A quagmire ensued, and when my alliances ended, so did the war, far short of the goal of taking the Pyramids, but with a toehold on former Roman land well established. I'll be back.

Very impressive to have that much progress while blunting the effect of their Golden Age. How do you feel about the amount of resources it took to prosecute the war to that degree?

Legionairies kick serious booty and for me, once Rome connects Iron it's usually "Yes, your emminence"! :lol: Their starting location is a yummy delicious landmass and would be a great prize. This is shaping up to be the road not taken in my game and I'll be interested in seeing how it turns out. Much stronger than mine, I'll wager :D
 
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