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Spys- Should they come earlier???

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Grit, Mar 31, 2006.

  1. Grit

    Grit Warlord

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    I have pondered this question and it seems to mee they should in some sort of variation I mean for instance the Japanesse had the nija for intelengce gathering (and other perposes but thats besides the point) and as pointed out in the Naponic Europ scenerio in Civ3:conquests europeans had been spying on each other for ages. So why should we Civers have to what till the industrial age and later just to spy on or computer/other civer neighbors:mad:
     
  2. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

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    I unit with invisibility and the ability to go into closed borders would be nice, though the missions that spies can perform shouldn't be available.
     
  3. balthamael

    balthamael Warlord

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    i think they should rename teh current spy "Secret Agent" or something, and have another spy unit much earlier (i mean Classical age earlier), that can spy but not perform missions.......ana Ninja's were trained as Assassins.
     
  4. Black Waltz

    Black Waltz Prince

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    I like the current system. If you want inteligence pre Industrial why don't you invest in a nice Religeon?
     
  5. marioflag

    marioflag History Addict

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    Yes i agree spy unit should be at least available before.Anyway spies should be able to perform more missions in modern times.
     
  6. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    There should be an earlier spy unit that allows you to see inside foreign cities (something you can't do with religion), but that doesn't have the sabotage options of the normal spy. I think it should be available sometime around the end of the ancient age, since historically spies have been around for thousands of years.
     
  7. Mackster

    Mackster Chieftain

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    i think it would be good to get the spy early, but without most of the missions. Then, as you advance through the tech tree, more missions become available
     
  8. ticktockclok

    ticktockclok Chieftain

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    I think you are all understimating the spy's power of seeing inside closed borders and seeing enemy cities. This alone can shape a war, because you can figure out where their weakest points are, and you know the lay of the land. I think its too powerful to come any earlier than where it currently is- Industrial Age, is it?
     
  9. Sidewinder00Q

    Sidewinder00Q Warlord

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    Let the spy unit become available with something like Fuedalism or along the lines. Then, like the worker, allow actions to become available with techonologies. I would however, insist that you can't sabotage anything that you don't have the technology to produce yourself. Example the spy wouldn't be able to sabotage the production of an Artillery unit, if you are still only producing Catapaults. The spy just wouldn't have the knowledge neccesary to do anything vital to it. I would though, like to see the ability to steal technology put into the Spy's aresenal.
     
  10. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    Actually, I would put the spy around Divine Right.

    It's around that era that stronger governments begin to appear. With stronger, more unified national governments, spying actually become a wortwhile activity, since you have a centralized place to spy on.
     
  11. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    How about, spies (agents) come much earlier in the tech tree, but are initially limited in their abilities-but gain greater abilities (and increased success in 'simpler' missions) as you gain new techs. For instance, when you get explosives, you get to perform sabotage on city and terrain improvements.
    What I would most like to see, though, is a greater emphasis on espionage as a successful strategy-especially from the Industrial age onwards!

    Yours,
    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  12. Reignking

    Reignking Prince

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    Is English your first language?
     
  13. gmanne

    gmanne Safe One

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    Spies have been around since man strapped on a smile and went out and whacked his neighbours. Limit them to one per civ, have a small charge for peering around a city, but please make them available much much earlier.
     
  14. Albatoonoe

    Albatoonoe Warlord

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    The spy sucks anyway. They need to rework the whole spy thng.
     
  15. jeremiahrounds

    jeremiahrounds Prince

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    a unit with invisibility doesnt suck for warfare and they should come sooner.


    I think explorer should be invisible if it isnt on a worked tile. (ie roads cottages farms mines)
     
  16. Albatoonoe

    Albatoonoe Warlord

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    For war purposes, I'm sure you are right, but for it's main purpose, espionage and spying, what it can do is just pointless. The old spies were quite useful, though.
     
  17. DrewBledsoe

    DrewBledsoe Veteran QB

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    Easy solution, bring back the old "diplomat" unit available with writing tech, only usage to see inside an opponents city in exactly the same way you view your own , not invisible , chargable per use, and only use as above..it'd work fine.
     
  18. Crighton

    Crighton Emperor

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    I think this is probably the only argument for bringing back that Embassy thing from Civ III. I was never wild about having to pay for it but it did have some uses, the steal tech etc function.

    Right now I don't find spies all that usefull, I use them for taking out strategic resources (which is half theire function) but other than that engh, not that great. Might as well go the religious route to get the intel (and the $$$). I'd like to see the old spies brought back and rename the current one sabotuers or something.
     
  19. kernok

    kernok Warlord

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    i would love a spy available with guilds that is invisible and is able to steal plans.
    later it would be replaced by "secret agent" the spy we all know

    there is a problem: scotland yard didn't exist in 1400's :)
     
  20. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    OK. My feeling is that with Writing you can either (a) build a Small Wonder which lets you construct spies or (b) found embassies. Either way, you can immediately use spies/embassies to investigate foreign cities-for a price and with a chance of failure. Also, you have the ability to try and assassinate any great people/Super specialists in the city. Once you get alphabet you can steal techs; when you get map-making you can steal maps; when you get military tradition you can steal their battle plans; when you get construction, you can sabotage their city production; when you get currency you can steal their money and-once you have either nationalism or communism-or some such-you can start to incite revolts and/or bribe units (very, VERY expensive though, and they become barb units, not yours). With biology you can poison a city's water supply (-'ve health). With printing press you can spread propaganda (-'ve happiness, increased chance of a city switching loyalties); with explosives you can start blowing up city and terrain improvements. As you get into the modern age, you should have the chance to 'damage' enemy units, and release chemical, biological or nuclear attacks. Lastly, it should also be possible to use spies-in the capital-to force civics changes (again, VERY difficult and expensive).
    The chance of success should depend on several factors, including the mission performed, how many spies you have in a given city, the number of spies they have in the city, the level of diplopmatic relations, the size of the city targetted, any tech-level differences between the civ, and the various civics each civ has (propaganda is much easier in a civ with freedom of speech than in a police state, for instance).
    Anyway, just some thoughts.

    Yours,
    Aussie_Lurker.
     

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