Stability Guide

[Force44]

Thanks, that was very helpfull. It was under cities (I was looking for Religion)

I still have some questions though.

Does your statereligion give a bonus to stability?

Do I understand correctly that the relious instability penalty is n+1 for all civilizations except Poland and the Ottomans. (where n is the amount of non-state religions)

(for Poland it is 0 and for the Ottomans it is n)

This instability is permanent untill you either switch religions or adopt religious tolerance.

This instability is added to the instability already received from any (possible) unhappiness due to other sources of instability tied to religion (fighting a war with a state with the same statereligion, the civic religious law)

There is no religious instability tied to swing stability (eg the spread of a new foreign religion to your city/empire gives +1 instability for 10 turns)

How do temples reduce religious instability ?(or don't they reduce it at al?)

How do foreign religions influence your religious meter? (and thereby stability for orthodox religions)

 

[Swarbs]

Does your statereligion give a bonus to stability?

Only Orthodoxy, where you get +1 stability for every 10 faith points. The only impact of state religion is determining which religions are 'foreign' and thus create instability.

Do I understand correctly that the relious instability penalty is n+1 for all civilizations except Poland and the Ottomans. (where n is the amount of non-state religions)

(for Poland it is 0 and for the Ottomans it is n)

Yes. It is also n for total number of religions under Paganism.

This instability is permanent untill you either switch religions or adopt religious tolerance.

No, it is state based, so the instability can be removed via persecution (at a cost of swing instability from persecuting and possibly instability from unhappiness). But as long as the foreign religion remains in your city it creates instability.

This instability is added to the instability already received from any (possible) unhappiness due to other sources of instability tied to religion (fighting a war with a state with the same statereligion, the civic religious law)

Yes. As an aside, this is why I view Poland's UP as being very strong - no religious instability or instability from religious unhappiness.

There is no religious instability tied to swing stability (eg the spread of a new foreign religion to your city/empire gives +1 instability for 10 turns)

Not due to religious spread, but there is -3 swing stability for every successful persecution, (0 for Spain). The persecution counter also essentially causes swing instability as the counter decreases by 1 every turn.

How do temples reduce religious instability ?(or don't they reduce it at al?)

Only by reducing unhappiness / boosting happiness and improving Orthodox faith points. Jewish Quarters are the only buildings with a direct stability impact.

How do foreign religions influence your religious meter? (and thereby stability for orthodox religions)

The spread of foreign religions makes your faith points decline. Although removing them through persecution adds faith points. Not sure if those two actions exactly balance each other out.

 

[Force44]

@ Swarbs

Thanks, that was really helpfull.

~​

Just out of curiosity. Is it intentional or accidental that out of all the religious instabilities solely persecution is implemented through the swing stability?

 

[AbsintheRed]

@ Swarbs

Thanks, that was really helpfull.

Well, I think all that is also on the front page of this thread.
Little hard to read though, it's just a copy-paste from the civilopedia, didn't add any further comments.
Any volunteers to improve it?

Just out of curiosity. Is it intentional or accidental that out of all the religious instabilities solely persecution is implemented through the swing stability?

What do you mean?
All religious instabilities are temporary, either swing or based on the actual status of religion in your civ and cities.
Also persecution isn't implemented only through swing instability.
You would add swing instability to other religious events as well?

 

[DC123456789]

DoC shows the source of stability/instability when you hover over each number for the category.
Would that be possible in RFCE?

 

[Force44]

(about the guide to stability)

I think the guide on the first page is a good description of the mechanics of stability.
For gameplay of the stability it is a bit puzzling.
(eg if a thing does nothing it is not in the guide and for gameplay there is no difference between state based and event based modifiers)

My life is a bit stressfull at the moment so I'm afraid I can't commit to a finished product.
I would be happy to start a first draft though.
Shall I start a new topic/thread for it?

~​

(about swing stability)

The swing stability gives the player another thing to play with.

eg. (fictional) The acquisition of a tech over the course of turns changenes the stability by: -1,-2,-3,-4,-3,-2,-1,0,+1,+2,+3,+4,+3,+2,+1,0 (and 0 for all additional turns) (timing in this example)

(additional) similar mechanics can be tied to religion(stability/instability).

But from a design perspective it can be a consious decision to limit (as in cut away from) the gameplay to what the designer considers core gameplay (intentional) (eg the omission of corruption in civIV compared to previous installments of the civfranchise) or the current amount of gameplay is the result of mechanics the designer intended to include in (as in ad to) the game (accidental).

It is usually a question of quality of (trim down/cut away from) gameplay vs quantity of (ad to) gameplay.

The answer to this question of best gameplay is an optimum of quality and quantity. And this optimum is usual a personal preference.

(eg. I liked managing the corruption in civIII and I still prefer it today over managing the skyrocketing costs of civic upkeep in civIV)

I (personally) tend to lean to the quantityside of the equation. But having said that: Kitchen sink mods give me nightmares.

 

[AbsintheRed]

DoC shows the source of stability/instability when you hover over each number for the category.
Would that be possible in RFCE?

Noted.
Surely possible, not sure how hard (and time-consuming) would it be to add it for every stability aspect of RFCE.
I think we have more stability affecting things here, and much more special rules for a couple civics and some civs.

 

[AtlantaMarty]

Yeah, something felt strange about my dynamic stability values too in my last playtesting game
Will look into this ASAP

I'm having huge problems with stability after conquest, conquering 3 cities in made my stability drop by 25 points in 3 turns. It's crippling for any UHV that involves conquest.

 

[AbsintheRed]

I'm having huge problems with stability after conquest, conquering 3 cities in made my stability drop by 25 points in 3 turns. It's crippling for any UHV that involves conquest.

Well, it should drop by a very significant amount initially if you conquer 3 cities that quickly.
Especially if those were big, high-cultured cities, with foreign religions.
You said in the other thread those were Byzantine cities, including Constantinople, so no surprises here.

On the other hand, after the initial blow it should improve to some extent fairly quickly.
(war and revolts in the cities are over, commercial relations and health/happiness levels in your empire stabilize, etc.)
I would say around -15 stabilty for the 3 cities at that point.
Then it continues to improve, both indirectly in the background (culture), and directly through player actions (stability buildings, religious spread/conversions).
After some bigger stabilization of the areas, holding 3 cities in foreign area only means -3-5 stability, even in the mid-game!

So this is fully intentional.
If the initial -20-25 stability is too much for your empire to handle, you should take your time with the conquests.
Or face that a couple of those cities have a high chance of secession.
Full collapse (or collapse to core) is pretty rare, unless your stability is very negative.

 

[Panopticon]

On the above point in general, many UHVs are races against time relying on conquest from Day 1, e.g. Denmark, so these games really rely on save-load strategies.

 

[The Turk]

How accurate is this stability guide still?

As has already been said, the Arab UHVs are impossible under the current stability conditions. Foreign religions should not be giving a city penalty to stability.

Even slowly conquering still makes random cities declare independence. And when they declare independence in a historical area it seems you are dragged down even further in stability.

Honestly, this is simply making the mod unplayable.

Thinking of the Arabs here, there is very little you can do to boost your stability in the early game.

 

[artyom]

got a lot of questions, for SVN version:

1) are any stability points permanent? If so, which? Like, if I capture a city with militarism, is that +1 to stability temporary or permanent? Will that stability stay if I later switch to colonialism?

2) is there a limit to stability? for example, if you have 40 stability, is it wasteful to keep building stability buildings? Should you save building them for later?

3) how and when do nations within your nation declare independence? How can you prevent that?

4) Is it possible to offset negative stability per city in foreign cities by building all 3 stability buildings? WHat about contested area cities? What about historical cities?

5) Do vassals have an impact on your stability?

6) In dawn of civilization RFCE mod, your expansion stability is dependent on the population size of your cities in your "core" area. Is it same in this mod? In other words, should one try to get as many cities/population as possible in the core area?

7) if you capture a city and then give it to your subject, are there any permanent stab hits (question 1)

8) any stability advice?

9) I have no clue what the stability numbers mean in the stability screen. I've read the guide many times (worst guide ever). Can someone explain what the left and right numbers stand for in each category and how they change?

thanks

 

[gilgames]

1, afaik no. militarism gives +1 until u are in militarism

2, no upper limit, eventually u gave to build all bonus builing, they are rather time bound. ie after 1200 u should have castles in most towns

3, there are certain minors they do declare time to time, have there good military presence high stability to reduce its effect. other nations declare if u are big and close to bad sability or worse (ie below +5)

4, yes, with any civ, you can be highly positive in stability if you have all core, historical and contested provinces, if you have foreign lands too, you have to be carful.

5, yes, its negative

6, no

7, i guess no, idk.

8, expand slower whenever you can, quick landgrab is the worst for stability, thats why arabs are unőplayable now.

9, i dont know all of them, but Cities: city buildings in all of ur cities. Economy: is always 5star for me so pass, Civics: is obvious with given bonuses. Expansion is expansion and castles i think.

also certian provinces for each civs can change with time!
thats all

 

[PiR]

--French UP: additional +1 for each city in a border or foreign province

Hey if there's anyone left I'd like to know what's a border province?
is it a province that touches a non-red province?
or is it s province that touches a province that you already own? (and this way you can slowly expand accross the whole map, which sounds silly but entertaining)

 

[voigt]

Hey if there's anyone left I'd like to know what's a border province?
is it a province that touches a non-red province?
or is it s province that touches a province that you already own? (and this way you can slowly expand accross the whole map, which sounds silly but entertaining)

Hey, if I've got it right, these are the orange tiles, i.e. the ones in the contested area.

 

[gilgames]

Hey, if I've got it right, these are the orange tiles, i.e. the ones in the contested area.

Yes, you can settle those, but be carefull with your stability. 2-3 city there plus some bad events can hit you hard. So progress slowly on those provinces, unless urh UHV says otherwive